Electrical - how does thsi work?

RatLabGuy

RatLabGuy

You look like a monkey and smell like one too
Joined
May 18, 2005
Location
Churchville, MD
The fuse box in my house has always bugged me, b/c I can' treally get my head around how the "main" fuse works.
Here's a link to a pic - hi res for zooming action -
http://www.rewazule.com/David/house/Fuse_box.jpg

now it dosn't have the traditional big "main" switch at the top like most modern boxes.
Instead, the main lines coming in from outside come directly in and contact the main rails. So if I understand right, the rails are always "on" and can only be turned off from the pole outside.
Meanwhile, in the 1/2 position is a double-tap link, which is tied to the two main "hot" rails. If you follow the lines from here, you can see they go up and back behind, and contact the main rails on each side.
So i'm guessing what's happening here is that this line (through teh fusible link) is providing the only connection to the neutral/ground rails at the bottom. Is thsi right?

What really gets me is, this link is labeled as only 60 amps. How is that possible? Surely there are many times I'm pulling more than 60 amps...?
 
David,
From what I see:
Unless you have something between the main line and this box, you are walking on thin ice. There in no main disconnect! Only way to kill your power to wire safely is to pull your meter!
A dangerous situation.
If what you are asking is if the common/neutral and the ground tied together is OK, the answer is yes( I think) in my box it is separated, but it is tied together in my main box just under my meter.
I think you need another box, with a main throw breaker.
Also looks as if there are some wire that isn't connected but very close to a hot source.
 
Well, I think that first fusible link is acting kind of like a main disconnect. I just don't understand how/why.
E.g. if I flip it, none of the other circuits work.
It can't be too dangerous... b/c when we bought the house several years ago, the inspector did not flag it (although he did flag some unplugged holes in the case and some other minro things)
 
OK. Now that I've seen your setup, it makes even less sense! Now you say, from experience, that when you flip that breaker in the 1-2 position, it kills power to the rest of the house? I don't see how, unless under those other breakers, the buss bars are cut and don't actually run the entire length of the box, they only feed the first breaker. I don't like it, and I also don't like the bare wires dangling in there, either! All I can say is save up, and get a liscenced electrician to replace the whole thing with a 150A box with a good disconnect.
 
LoL thats pretty nasty but by far not the worse I've ever seen. I'd get someone to look at it but its prob been like that for years and years and hasn't caused any harm. I was in a 50 year old house for awhile and when we went to put in the hot tub we had me and 3 other electricians standing around trying to figure out wtf was going on. But yea get it looked at if nothing else by a good res guy
 
At minimum the rails behind the top two breakers are always hot! Somewhere it looks like the rails are cut going to the bottom of the box from this first breaker. That is the reason for the lines from 1-3 going to the (left top breaker) going to the rails. 2-4 (top right) should also be hot all the time also and maybe the next 2 below each. Is there a breaker at the meter (hope so)?

I personally do not like the look of the connection of the wire to the rail (spot without breaker). Looks like a problem in the making.

Time to get an electrician to put in a new box that is up to code.
 
Ok spent some more time poking around w/ a meter.
Yes, the 1st link (1-3) kills the power to all the other circuits, when I flip it, whole house goes dead.
That being said - when this one is flipped off, if I put a voltmenter lead on the ground/neutral rail at the bottom of the box, and other one on the screw contact on any of the OTHER double-tap (240) links, I still read 120v... yet the devices are not running like it's off?
 
that is a sub panel.
If what you are saying is accurate (that there is no discconnect means between the meter and the Line side of that panel) then it does not meet code and any inspector who allowed that to bee left as is, should have his license revoked.

All that said, will it work, sure.
Its not RIGHT but should work.

No more than it would cost to have a new panel professionally installed in that location (PM me if interested) I would change it.

But as said previously, its bad but Ive seen much worse...
 
Is the top right 2 pole breaker hot with the left top off? Check with meter on both poles, wires of breaker ... should be 0 or 240. Check all the double pole breakers to verify no power. Suspect at least one still hot.
 
ouch... they are treating the top portion of your box as a main dist. panel. (no clue if its code )

My house goes
1) meter
2) main panel outside of house, next to meter -> feed 6 large breakers (No master disco/breaker at top) This is HOT unless you pull the meter head.

The #1 main panel w/ large breakers feed:
1) Stove/range
2) water heater
3) HVAC
4) House SUB Panel located in garage.
5) Dryer
6) Garage SUB panel located in garage

The thinking is you should never/hardly have to do work in the main box and if you are you should have someone who knows what they are doing, do it..

The subs can be shut off completely at anytime from outside..

FWIW: I've seen many old houses wired with no main disconnects, only the meter head.

A master disco type box would be easy to slide in.

We updated my brothers house a few years ago. We had to pull the head and we rewired the box in ~2hrs. (replacing an older type), since we were in the basement, it was easy to rewired a few major runs for the furnace water heater etc with updated/correct size wire.
 
Well, if there IS any kind of external main switch, it isn't between the meter box and this panel... it would have to be inside the meter box. Which, unfortunately, I can't open to panel of to check out b/c on the lock tab it has one of those plastic one-time clip jobs w/ a D.P.Co label. Obviously, Duke Power dosn't want me opening their box (no surprise there).
What you see here is all there is for the house, those double-tap 30a fusible links are for all the big appliances (compressor, stove, furnace, water heater, etc).
Oh BTW the house was made in late '63 so this kind of thing dosn't surprise me at all anymore.
 
Well after some thought, I at least figured out the 60A deal.
Each leg of that first (1/3) link is tied to a different rail. So really it means each rail has a 60A limit, or functionally close to 120 total (well, kind of). I guess the chances of pulling > that on 1 side are not so good, at least a houe of this size.
 
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