Flooring guys... (and an electrician) ...a question

kaiser715

kaiser715

Doing hard time
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
7, Pocket, NC
My kitchen floor was done in laminate flooring when we built the house, it's glueless interlocking...I think Armstrong brand. Not real wood.

We have an island in the kitchen...2 base cabs with an overhanging countertop/bar. It's sitting on top of the finished floor, not permanently fixed.

I want to add an outlet to the island, so first I'll have to fix the island in place, then run wire. What's the best way to do that? I'm thinking cleats, pilot holes thru the laminate, screwed into the subflooring, then setting the cabs over the cleats and screwing into the cleats? Do I need to worry about allowing the floor to 'float'?

For the electricians...How about running the wire....I'm figuring to drill 1/2" dia. or so, run romex thru into the cab, then firestop the hole? (That's OK, right, since the cabs will be permanently installed?)...or will I have to put a junction box at floor level?
 
No, don't secure the cabnet to the floor. That floor has to float or you will have real problems. Just drill a large diameter hole through the floor, run the power cord into the bottom of the cabnet to conduit and then outlet. If you want to secure the island down, you will have to cut/remove the laminate under the cabnit and remember to leave enough gap 1/4 " at least.
 
I'm no flooring guy - nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Expres - but I thought you weren't supposed to put heavy fixtures like that on top of floating floors just for this reason, so they could indeed float? e.g. the floor should go around it?
 
Well, it is lighter than my refrigerator. :) And china cabinet, too.

House has been here 7 years, no issues so far. Was thinking the island would be nice bolted down...right now, there is a strip of felt tape on the bottom edges...every once in a while we have to straighten it up...bumping into it, etc, it gradually gets a bit off-kilter...every few months I'll notice it doesn't line up with the floorboards, and have to nudge it back straight again.
 
Yep..like Gotwood said...dont screw it down...but if you must..take a sharpie and trace around it at least a1/4 inch larger...move the counter and skill saw the laminate out...replace island and trim with 1/4 round. Dont nail the 1/4 round into the floor either..make sure you nail it into the base of island.

To ratlab...anything sitting on top of floor will move with the floor...that is not a problem.
 
I don't see why you couldn't attach it to the laminate floor but NOT to the sub foor. This would still allow the floor to float.
Or, if that isn't good, trace the cabinet out on the floor, remove the cabinet, then install some blocking to the floor (not sub floor) on the inside of the trace line at each of the 4 corners. Then, pick the island up and set it back on the floor over the blocks. Now your island will not slide but is not fixed either. :)
 
rockcity said:
I don't see why you couldn't attach it to the laminate floor but NOT to the sub foor. This would still allow the floor to float.
Or, if that isn't good, trace the cabinet out on the floor, remove the cabinet, then install some blocking to the floor (not sub floor) on the inside of the trace line at each of the 4 corners. Then, pick the island up and set it back on the floor over the blocks. Now your island will not slide but is not fixed either. :)
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burrellsjeep said:
If you were to do what rockcity said, be sure to predrill your holes and be aware the flooring is only a 1/4 inch thick. So short screws.
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catfishblues said:
Liquid Nails.
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I guess these are all doable too.
 
Dylan W. said:
I guess these are all doable too.
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Well, I'm not speaking from much experience. I'm not a fan of the stuff, I'd never have it in my house. However, I've helped put some down before, and I wouldn't trust ANY kind of screw to hold in it. It's too thin and it's got no grain structure. It'd be like screwing into a cardboard box, essentially. One adult leaning up against the bar would likely pull screws out of the floor. If you really don't want it to move, I'd look to a judicious application of construction adhesive before running screws into it. If you want it to stay put, yet still be removable, you could try the anti-slip drawer liners under the corners of the island.
 
As to part B, the electrical question.
I have the same set up in my house (identical island on floating laminate)
What I did, and has served me well:
I driller a 3/4" hole with a paddle bit straight through to the crawl space, I used a short piece of 1/2" pvc conduit as a chase and ran the romex through it. Initially I siliconed around the conduit and then used a wire grip connector on the end to seal the romex end off. Since my wife used this cabinet for storing a few larger pots, pans and her mixer after a few months I noticed she had bumped the cord more than a few times, so I extended the conduit up to a box which the recep was mounted in.

Not sure if all that makes sense.
 
catfishblues said:
I'm not a fan of the stuff, I'd never have it in my house.
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I was the same way. Until I put it in. Wood would still look better, but it has help up amazingly well. I figured we'd have it scratched/gouged/whatever by now (7 years last August). My plan was to put it down (cheap) and then do tile floors 3-4 years later...still looks like new. (Of course...no kids, etc).

catfishblues said:
If you want it to stay put, yet still be removable, you could try the anti-slip drawer liners under the corners of the island.
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I like that...it'll probably work good.
 
Or - what about essentially putting it on "stilts" to the subfloor going through the laminate?
Chaulk trace it out on thr floor. Drill say 1.5" holes in the corners through the laminate but not subfloor. Place some 1" posts centered in the holes, screw/glue/ducktape these in place. Now place you cabinets on the posts.

I'm w/ Mark, just screws into the laminate will not hold very long unless you used 30 of them.

You know, my mom has thsi exact scenerio in her house - with an outlet in it. i'll take a peak on Thursday.
I didn't really think of how light the island actually is earlier.
 
We had this type of floor in our other house and it held up amazingly well. I was very surprised. It was about 7 years old when we sold the house and it looked just like it did the day we moved in 5 years earlier. We have a 115lb Lab that loves to play in the house. After 5 years it had zero scratches.

However, out new house has nice dark hardwood floors. After 1.5 years its all dented and scratched up from use. I guess it just gets like that but that laminate stuff just plain takes the abuse!
 
The electrical aspect of it - protect the wire (romex) all the way to the outlet, if the cabinet is used for storage.
 
Cutting a rectangle out of the laminate and screwing the cabinet to the subfloor is probably the best and fastest way. If there's a possibility that you might move or remove the island later, hang on to enough attic stock of the laminate to repair the hole.

As for the electrical, it's best to have a junction box below the floor where you transition from romex to conduit or BX cable and then up to the receptacle box in the cabinet. You shouldn't run romex inside of conduit. You physically can, but it's not code.
 
Good point on the romex......I was going to recommend the MC/BX, that's what I usually use.
 
saf-t scissors said:
You shouldn't run romex inside of conduit. You physically can, but it's not code.
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Alright, Shaun, granted I'm an industrial and controls guy, and haven't done houses in~5 years...

but give me some direction here. What code would prevent romex inside conduit? I know there is code to specifically say it is not required inside a wall, or unoccupieed space, but what would make it against code.
 
Something to do w/ the paper getting wet & breaking down inside the conduit allowing a fire.......I remember it barely from code class.
 
rockcity said:
We had this type of floor in our other house and it held up amazingly well. I was very surprised. It was about 7 years old when we sold the house and it looked just like it did the day we moved in 5 years earlier. We have a 115lb Lab that loves to play in the house. After 5 years it had zero scratches.

However, out new house has nice dark hardwood floors. After 1.5 years its all dented and scratched up from use. I guess it just gets like that but that laminate stuff just plain takes the abuse!
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just don't get it wet
 
To explain the romex and conduit question,

When running conduit you have to figure the fill factor of the conduit, It all depends on cable size and amps. The cables must have area in order to keep from over heating. Romex doesn't allow you to figure it due the caseing, The figuring is done by single conductors. Running open ended conduit over romex is ok, Just don't have it in a closed raceway. IE box to box conduit.
 
burrellsjeep said:
To explain the romex and conduit question,
When running conduit you have to figure the fill factor of the conduit, It all depends on cable size and amps. The cables must have area in order to keep from over heating. Romex doesn't allow you to figure it due the caseing, The figuring is done by single conductors. Running open ended conduit over romex is ok, Just don't have it in a closed raceway. IE box to box conduit.
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that is crazy logic.
 
RatLabGuy said:
that is crazy logic.
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Crazy is Box Fill Figuring.

Here ya go

awestsidedelivers.com_images_products_CUSTOM_20PAGE_20PHOTOS_conduit_20fill.jpg
 
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