Heavy Work Weekend Aftermath

[DRaider90]

I will say we did get some work done, not what we expected but still some. It seems we had the weekend from hell out at Uwharrie.

What went wrong:

-Brain Flopped his Jeep Friday Morning
-Deuce broken down on the way to URE.
-Brain's thumb got messed up by the Bobcat, Emergency Room visit
-T-300 blew a track twice
-T-190 blew a track once
-We didn't have a grease gun to fix the tracks
-We got the grease gun, but didn't have enough grease to fix the tracks.
-Trees fell all over the trail, including on the Jeep I was in as we made a mad dash off the trail
-It rained just enough so we couldn't get the Bobcat's up the Hill Climb on Dutch John
-T-190 had to be pulled up the hill
-T-300 had the Forest Service Bulldozer attached to it while going up the hill
-The ones that stayed till the very end didn't finish working till 11:30PM.
-We didn't even use all the equipment we rented (Hydraulic Breaker)

Why it went wrong:

1.)Plans were changed in the middle of the work day splitting up the groups.
2.)T-300 had tracks that should have been replaced a long time ago
3.)Bobcat's with rubber tracks don't do well to begin with on sharp/rocky areas.
4.)We didn't have repair tools for the Bobcats.
6.)We didn't have experience repairing Bobcats.
7.)We were on Dutch John, a trail we hadn't used machinery on before. And we were in a valley where either direction the Bobcats would have trouble leaving if wet.
8.)Storms blew through making the trails slick, and downing trees causing delays in getting the grease transported.
9.)A good number of individuals (and people in clubs) that had plans to show weren't able to. We had no where close to the 40 people that were estimated for this workload.


The Bobcats blowing tracks, and storms can't be controlled. If we had the bobcat repair supplies, better knowledge of repairing bobcats, it would have been a much more productive day. It would have been an even better day if we weren't stuck between the switch back and the Hill Climb when it rained. Its not a good situation to be in if you are in a vehicle, let alone a Bobcat.

What we got done (time it took):
- Mud Hole Drained and re-shaped (3-4hrs)
- Trail Ditch completely re-shaped/extended (5hrs)
- Guard Rail Installed (via Bobcat and the 2-Man Auger) (3-4hrs)
- 1 Log Bridge Crossing completely re-built (5hrs)

We did get the above 4 nice sized projects completed. BUT if we didn't loose the usage of the bobcats due to track failures we could have doubled that list to 8 projects easily.

I know those that stayed till it got dark were upset/pissed off. I was myself. Think I was looking forward to this for a while, this was supposed to be the highlight of my vacation. But in all reality it is what it is. I hope the other groups involved felt it was a productive workday, and it just goes to show you never know what is going to happen out at URE.

For the hell we went through we still got a good bit done. But lets keep moving forward and see the pictures/videos/reports of people's experiences on the workday.

 

[CJ8Extreme]

Saturday was definately a day that once it began you just felt like you should of stayed at home!!! Nothing seemed to go right for one reason or another, but there was still some progress made. The storms didn't help either. I believe people from my group have pics of the bridge (at least the finished product) that we can hopefully get posted up. Man, that bridge doesn't look hard to make/rebuild....but that thing was a nightmare haha.... who would of thought a little wooden bridge would take so much effort. Definately makes you appreciate the hard work it takes to keep URE up and running!

All and all it was a decent day... we made the best of it and that's all you can really do in a situation like that!

 

[Tech11]

Don't be fooled. A LOT of work WAS DONE. Sure not ALL the work was done, but the list was a HUGE list.

We are kicking around ideas to get things done in the future, that will benefit all of us, hopefully.

Get us the volunteer hours we need, get us the trail work we need and not work our volunteers to death, and run them all off from being mad as hornets.

BTW my jeep flop was not work day involved. It was a pre work day run. Time for upgrades I guess.

As for my thumb. Well. I know where NOT to put it now.

But still, we got a lot accomplished and everyone involved should be proud.

 

[drowe512]

Our little group on Rocky Mount suffered from changes in the middle of the work. We were told to bring out logs for another group to use so we started doing that. A gentleman just riding the trails donated a chain so we could do it. If he is here, thank you, it made the job easier. We got most of the logs moved and then was told they weren't needed and we should work on the guard rail. No problem, we had the auger and knocked them out after a return trip to pick up another set of guard rail / posts. The day went well but it was time consuming to have the priorities changed. We finished about 2:30 and didn't have anything else to do. If there was another job we could have gone to at least a couple of us would have gone to help.

It was a good day for our group. We got some work done, we got to work with new people and no serious damage to people or equipment. We will all be back for the next one.

David

 

[rodney eppes]

I Missed It *

Sorry I had to miss this one, as I too had planned for a while. I did let Eli know, that my plan changed. Brother underwent a double bypass operation, & is now doing fine. He should be home in a couple of days. My THANKS to ALL that did get to work!!

 

[thecarman]

We need a reliable way to communicate between work groups that are spread out in the forest. Any ideas?

What drowe512 described - if they were done at 2:30, we could have used them and their auger on Dutch John to work on guardrail or split rail while the track was off our Bobcat. Instead, folks were digging with manual post-hole diggers ("clam shells") trying to get something done while the Bobcat was down.

Whatever we had - "family" radios and CBs, it didn't even stretch between the 2 groups on Dutch John who were maybe a mile apart? Not even that far? We made multiple trail runs between groups that would have been un-needed if we could have just had a decent conversation.

 

[thecarman]

Are the Bobcats the right tool for us?

Why did the tracks come off? Was it vendor error (not enough tension on the tracks), or just a fact of life that rubber tracks don't mix with rocks? I've used a rubber-tracked 195 Bobcat for 3 days straight at my house and never had a track come off, so it got me wondering.

Would a non-track Bobcat with wheels be better?

CNC won't be renting Bobcats in the future unless grading work is needed. Maybe not even then if we have an alternative?

We have a member with an auger on a small 4x4 diesel tractor, and it works great for guardrail posts. If it's not available, we'll rent a tow-behind auger like we did at our last workday. It wasn't as easy as the tractor, but was better than the hand-held augers that jerk your shoulders out of joint. The only issue we had was being careful not to tip it over when towing down the trail.

 

[Roughshod]

We need a reliable way to communicate between work groups that are spread out in the forest. Any ideas?

What drowe512 described - if they were done at 2:30, we could have used them and their auger on Dutch John to work on guardrail or split rail while the track was off our Bobcat. Instead, folks were digging with manual post-hole diggers ("clam shells") trying to get something done while the Bobcat was down.

Whatever we had - "family" radios and CBs, it didn't even stretch between the 2 groups on Dutch John who were maybe a mile apart? Not even that far? We made multiple trail runs between groups that would have been un-needed if we could have just had a decent conversation.

I might be able to help out in that regard. I have a UHF repeater that we could put up for the weekend. I'd have to do range testing to verify the foot print of the repeater would cover everything we need, but I'd be a little surprised if it wouldn't. This repeater absolutely lays the smack down on FRS or CB. Pretty much what we would have to do is drive a vehicle with the repeater to a high spot (top of RML?), set up an antenna, and leave it there for the day while we're working. My repeater can be run off of 12V, so no generator would be required to run it, just power it off the battery of whatever vehicle we leave up there. The question is hand held radios, how many do we need? I've got three or four that we can use with my repeater, and I could possibly get my company to let me borrow some others out of the rental fleet. I've never been to one of these, so I really don't have a good feel for how many radios would be needed. I'm assuming at least a couple per group, but ideally more than that. How many folks usually show up to these work days?

 

[Ridgerunner]

That is a really good Idea.


Can you send me some info on the repeater you have as it might also be good for large events held there as well

 

[ghost]

Hate I could not make it like I had planed. Dad was up from Florida and it bieing Father's day weekend kinda closed it for me. I would be interested in knowing about the track issue. Is it something that the rental place is responsible for? If so will they re rent it for no fee since it effected the amount of work being done?

 

[98jeeptj]

I was out there Sunday with a couple other guys and were able to move a couple downed trees in a couple spots on Dicky Bell. At the bottom of the hill climb there is a big one we couldnt budge though (you may know already know that). I was wondering what the rules were as far at me running my chain saw to cut up downed trees on my own time while riding the trails? If thats acceptable Ill probably take it along on future trips just incase. Either way, I think me and a couple friends may want to help out on the next work day depending on what day it falls on...

Josh

 

[GotLime?]

I had 4 family radios and offered them up. Only Eli took me up on the offer. I heard he and "Bobcat Chris" going back and forth most of Satruday so I know they were working for them.

These thin gs are cheap. I got some Cobra one's for $18 a set on Amazon. They're not fancy. I don't know what the range is, but they are handy in everyone doesn't have a CB.

Range does seem to be the limiting factor at URE though. Both for radios and CBs.

6 of us were sent to a project. We got there and it weas not what we expected. We got on the radios and cB and could not reach anyone.

Communication and reliable info seem to be 2 of the major problems we had.

We were told to go to XYZ and drag out a culvert that had been "removed". 2 of the 3 rigs in our group drove OVER the culvert and didn't even see it. We were led to believe we were just dragging this thing up to the road so the Forest Service could pick it up. My 8k pound winch could not budge this thing. It was BURIED!! Bad intel.

Then we couldn't get anyone on the radio or CB. Communication. So we were forced to just drive around and look for somehting to do and someone to help. We probably losy 12 man hours of labor due to this.

My observatyions:

Sometimes, we didn't have the right tools.

Sometimes, we didn't have the right tools at the right places.

Sometimes, we didn't know what was need (people and equipment) where.

Sometimes we had too many chiefs and not enough indians and sometimes we had too many indians and not enough chiefs.

I think Eli's original idea of all of us working in close proximity would have helped tremendously. All t he tools close by, we can communicate, we can move people around to get things done.

I worked on the team that rebuilt the log crossing. I feel good about what we did but we could have done so much more. I met some good folks. I had fun. I learned a lot. I hope I helped.

We had so many obstacles this weekend: Duece Bigelow had mechanical issues (Kudos to Chris for being able to repair them on his own. I would have been sitting on the side of the road crying), medical emergencies (human and pet), Bobact issues, weather (Did a tree go down on someone?), we lost power at the cabin we were staying at and I had a wardrobe malfunction. We made it through. We got a lot done. We had so much fun. And we have a lot of great stories to tell!

 

[TheGriz]

I was out there Sunday with a couple other guys and were able to move a couple downed trees in a couple spots on Dicky Bell. At the bottom of the hill climb there is a big one we couldnt budge though (you may know already know that). I was wondering what the rules were as far at me running my chain saw to cut up downed trees on my own time while riding the trails? If thats acceptable Ill probably take it along on future trips just incase. Either way, I think me and a couple friends may want to help out on the next work day depending on what day it falls on...
Josh

YOU may not operate a chainsaw in a national forest without Sawyer certification. There are a few of us that have received training and certification from the Forest Service. I know Carman also has his certification and was at the workday... FYI - This only allows those of us with training to buck/limb trees that are already on the ground...

 

[XJfreakHO]

Gotta say, if the bobcats were that problematic, I hope you are getting some form of refund.

Otherwise, hate I couldn't make it, the plan just fell apart friday afternoon.

Glad everyones safe, even though the trees and all were falling.

 

[dcain1979]

Eli, we can use the grease on the next bobcat rental workday, it'll be handy to keep on hand.

gotlime, how did you miss the story of the MASSIVE 100 year old oak falling on my Jeep?? No really it wasn't a massive oak, however it was a dead tree, that put several scratches down the side of the Jeep, no dent's to speak of though.

 

[Tech11]

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THUMB PICTURE









Jeep Damage.

 

[burger3026]

thumb looks better than the last time I saw it. heard back from Insurance on the jeep yet? I ain't forgot you still owe me half of those pain pills. haha

 

[Tech11]

Filed claim tonite. Man I saw you parked at the outpost Sunday and waited a bit to see if you came out, and was waitin for Draider, but my thumb said it was way past time to go.

I'll make a donation to your FA kit of course.

 

[dcain1979]

Workday Pics

 

[rodney eppes]

bobcats ?

Not being there, its hard to know what was going on with the Bobcats. Losing tracks, & being pulled up hills. My Company hates Bobcats, but we were using a T-190 today, on tracks, that belonged to a partner. Only problem was "jerky" action, & under-powdered. I DO Know, that any rubber track, will walk off the rollers, if you do much "sidehill" traveling. I also hope Eli got credit, for all the downtime, grease, & trouble.

 

[DRaider90]

I have calmed down so to speak after being at work today, and gained a little perspective.

To sum up the entire work weekend I would put it as:

If we were just having a work day, it would be considered amazingly productive. But considering it was a work weekend, it wasn't near as productive as it could/should have been.

Because I did log a good 4 hours of heaving digging re-shaping and cleaning out a tail ditch (number 8 on the work list) using the T-190. 4 hours is about what we usually log on a Bobcat installing guard rail on a workday. The T-190 the 2nd day with Chris running it, did get some guard rail installed. It logged more than 8 hours if I remember correctly, so we got some use out of it. The T-300 when I was running it helped pop free logs for the bridge repair, and then Chris ran it to re-shape the mud hole. It logged more than 8 hours so we got some use out of it also. Combine that with the hand work that got done on the bridge, and the other guard rail we got a good bit done.

The Bobcats did a good bit of work, but we didn't get to use the Hydraulic Breaker and the Auger got minimal use. Which was the biggest downside of the bobcats having downtime. Even though we went over our hours on both machines they didn't charge us extra because of the track issues. So we did save some money. The thing is we learned a couple valuable lessons about the Bobcats.

1.)Just because they are tracked doesn't make them invincible.

2.)We need to keep tools available to repair blown tracks.

3.)Keeping an eye on the tracks pressure is key

4.)When renting we can't use machines with extremely worn tracks

I think Chris said they had it down to 10 minutes to repair a track. So I don't see this being a big issue in the future. We also need to re-consider the use of wheeled machines. Wheeled machines don't have as many issues with rocks, but suck when its wet. Track Machines have more issues with rocks, but perform better in wet conditions. We will have to balance the pros and cons in the future and make decisions based on what work needs to be done, what trail (and level of difficulty of the trail) needs the work, etc.

Beyond that communication breakdown was another big issue. The Family radios did help/extend our reach of communication, but when the bridge group was split up from the guard rail group (bottom of the hill climb) we couldn't communicate. If we had stuck to the plan of keeping the equipment/groups close together this wouldn't have been an issue. But someone changed this in the middle of the workday. Full power GRMS radios might help with this, or the repeater idea could work. But in the end it isn't a good idea to have 1 group at one end of the trail, and 1 group on the other end when we have equipment. It wastes valuable time when we have to communicate or transport tools etc.

If you combine the work done Friday, plus what was done Saturday we got a good amount of work in. But where we flat out failed was extending work into Sunday. But I don't blame people not wanting to stay and work Sunday after what happened Saturday, and it was father's day. If we had worked Sunday (it was only me left) we could have salvaged at least a couple work sites, like the ones that needed the Hydraulic breaker work. But it all was a learning experience. This was a big step forward in our involvement with the Forest Service. Moving forward isn't always a smooth transaction, sometimes it takes some learning to go with it. And as long as we have learned what not to do, and what to expect next time this work weekend was a success.

And its great to see at least one picture of me operating the beast (the T-300) with the 1,200lb 4in1combination bucket. That isn't a visual error, you can see part of the bobcat between the back of the bucket and the part of the bucket hanging down.

 

[War Wagon]

Eli,

I had a friend that said we may want to try a tool cat for what we are doing. I have seen pictures of them but never operated one. May be something to look into for next time. Sorry I missed all the fun but at our event the week before we had a dead full size 1/3 the way up Dutch John, it was getting dark and was starting to rain. We finally got him up the hill climb and the 4 Jeeps behind him up it as well just before the bottom fell out. I had to leave for British Columbia so I missed all the fun. We will do better next time; it is a work in progress.

Jim

 

[GotLime?]

Some more pics:

Eli on the Bobcat:

That's a LOT of vehicle to be driving on the trails. Great job Chris!!

We decided we needed the winch on the other side of the "bridge" after we had started to disassemble it.

Bridge Team:

First crossing:

 

[DRaider90]

Good work on the bridge guys. You turned a mess of logs into a functional bridge again. Keep the pictures coming! I only had a couple but I will post mine up also when I get a chance.

 

[Bobby D.]

Not being there, its hard to know what was going on with the Bobcats. Losing tracks, & being pulled up hills. ...I DO Know, that any rubber track, will walk off the rollers, if you do much "sidehill" traveling...

I think the tracks got side loaded by rocks in the trail. it didn't seem to take much though. they did do a heck of a job when they were operating.