Honest loggers/Timber buyers?

1-tonmudder said:
Yeah unless you have in it writing that they need to clean up they will leave a big mess.
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A word to the wise...

Loggers are allowed to "spill" up to 25 gallons of oil/fuel per incident before its reportable to the state. If you don't want 25+ gallons of oil at multiple locations across your property, make sure to disclose your stricter expectations.

We hire loggers at work and our threshold is 1oz. We make sure they adhere to that. They don't like it but it's part of the job. Otherwise we would have had a huge mess in multiple areas.
 
id also plan on spending any money you think you will make logging. to have your road regarded proper ditches put in and colveerts if needed as well as gravel the whole length. I also wouldn't expect them to leave 3-4 ft. of stump for you they will take as much wood from every tree possible. they also wont touch a tree that has no market value unless they absolutely have to. loggers do the BARE minimum to stay legal, they also don't have to pull a permit to log in NC so unless someone calls them in or the county ranger sees a bunch of dirt on the road they may not catch this job because of its size.
 
I talked to my dad a little about your situation and he said your local forestry office should be able to supply you with a buyers list of folks in your area.
 
Thanks again for all the info. This forum has a heap of knowledge and helpful folk in regards to just about anything.

I took the advice of the forum and got some more quotes. The best quote is from Parton lumber out of Rutherfordton/forest city, I called their Lenoir office which is not far from the location in Smokey Creek. They immediately sent a young forester that is on staff. I know he works for them but It felt like he worked for me. He was really impressed with the timber. I showed him everything I want cut and he came back with an offer of 10-12000 and a free rd. That beats the heck out of 2000 maybe and a free rd. He also said that he has guys that just cut and run and other crews that are better for leaving a neat site when done. Being that I don't want a mess he will send the neater fella and his crew. He said I would get 5K up front and then a check for the board feet each week. The other logger offered 70$ a thousand board feet for the timber. This fella laughed at that and said they would give apprx. 120$ per thousand. Paton also has workers comp...

Thanks and I will update with the results and some pics over the process for those interested.
 
FYI if he ius a registered Forester even though he works for the company he has a legal professional obligation to you and to integrity.

Not saying all follow it, but they rtisk their license if they don't.
 
I did some work for the owner of Parton Lumber about 10 years ago. Tim is his name I think. VERY modest guy. Had a house that was big enough, but not crazy (not much bigger than mine, but a lot nicer). They have a huge sawmill in Gilkey and I think one right off 64 in Rutherfordton. He told me that he made a ton of money off buying large tracts of land, harvesting the timber, replanting, and selling for almost the same as they paid.
 
Not that it matters now, but the 3-5' size discussed, was based on a sawmill, using a round blade. Probably more or most of them use a band saw type now. Still, I have no knowledge of the size any accept. Only what pulpwood mills I had hauled to [20"].
As for the stumps, I once worked for a grading company,that cut roads for subdivisions, After the timber was removed. At that time, it was common, to leave the stumps 2-3' tall, so the Dozer could easily push them out. If your not removing the stumps, cut them Low. They should be rotted out, by the time any new growth, gets harvested.
Best of Luck!
 
rodney eppes said:
Not that it matters now, but the 3-5' size discussed, was based on a sawmill, using a round blade. Probably more or most of them use a band saw type now. Still, I have no knowledge of the size any accept. Only what pulpwood mills I had hauled to [20"].
As for the stumps, I once worked for a grading company,that cut roads for subdivisions, After the timber was removed. At that time, it was common, to leave the stumps 2-3' tall, so the Dozer could easily push them out. If your not removing the stumps, cut them Low. They should be rotted out, by the time any new growth, gets harvested.
Best of Luck!
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Typically...

0-8" is pulp
8-12" is CNS (mixture of chip and saw timber or chin-n-saw_
and 12"-> is lumber mill stuff.

Now if you have a tract with 20 loads of pulp and half a load of 12+" stuff...you are taking it to the paper plant because...well a sawmill aint buying 1 load off a tract or they are giving you crap for it if they do.
But anyoen taking 20" stuff to a pulp mill...man thats tough to swallow
 
Update;

The forester for Parton met with me again yesterday. He had come out for a second time to cruise the parcel Wednesday. Yesterday he raised his offer to 8000.00 down before cutting and 140 a thousand board feet after that. He expects that I will get my usable road and approx. 16K for the timber. He will be clear cutting the road and power right of way and clear cutting a 180x180' area for the home, a 120x120' area for a garage and a half acre area on the other side of the creek for my mother to reside if needed due to health... After all the clear cutting he will select cut the other areas for white pine only 16" and greater. He said that the quality of the timber is what they want for molding.
Thanks again for the advice about getting more bids and a forester. I went from getting a rd and 2K to a usable rd and 16K +/- .His contract specifies that the property will be left neat without tree tops/branches strewn everywhere and that the road will be graded for correct drainage with pipes(my cost) installed where needed. He said he will either make burn piles of excess limbs and tops or move them to property boundaries per my liking. Another nice thing is that they have insurance and accept all responsibility regarding county, state and epa regulations,,,relating to run-off, timber management...

I will update with pics before and after during the process.

Thanks, Dan
 
Sounds too good to be true! But then again, that's some really nice timber. Glad it's gonna work out well for ya.
 
Nice! I graduated out of the Wood Products program at N.C. State with Parton's son. Always good to hear that not everyone out to stick it too you for their own gain! Let's you know just how valuable a resource you have if they can pay you that much to harvest, mill it and still make a decent profit.
 
Yeah, I was surprised to hear a higher offer when his first offer was acceptable compared to the other logger's offer of a road and 2K. Initially, Parton's forester asked me how much I had been offered....and I told him.
I told him I had planned to install a camera so I could count the loads due to the shady look of some I had talked with about logging. He laughed and said yeah it happens but we don't have time for cheating. We just pay for what we get. He told me that just a few weeks earlier he had given a guy a check for 20k because they overcut and the board footage was that much greater than originally quoted.

My wife and I aren't rich so we are pretty happy at the quote. A grader guy (before I considered selling the timber) quoted me 10-12K to make the road and clear the homesite. Now we are looking at a free usable rd and 16K. God is good
 
Question on tax rate of said income? Due at the end of the year I presume?
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
Question on tax rate of said income? Due at the end of the year I presume?
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Seems like it would be a sale of property, not income. If you sell your car, you don't pay income tax on the money you receive from it, right?
 
jeepinmatt said:
Seems like it would be a sale of property, not income. If you sell your car, you don't pay income tax on the money you receive from it, right?
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It is most likely taxable. The land is now improved and therefore increased in value and you profited from it. I'd say it's subject to capital gains taxes.
 
You need a CPA to answer this question.

A few items come to mind:
- Did he spend any money to grow the trees?
- How long ago did he buy the land?
- How soon does he plan to sell the land?
- Did any previous owner cost share or depreciate planting costs (very doubtful given the size)

All I will say is dont mess this up. The logger will likely 1099 you.
If that Forester is a SAF certified Forester he has to take annual financial consulting classes and is actually a fair resource.
 
Reason I asked is a good friend cleared and logged 20 acres clear cut. Taxes were assessed on the timber as I recall as straight income. Because a third party occurred all expenses in the labor. He was wrote a clear check as pure income.
He felt like when all was said and done, slower smaller outfits paid in cash or doing it himself would have been equally rewarding. Exluding time frame and equipment. These however are why you hire professionals to begin with. Bottom line the tax man gets a cut. How much I would be finding out.
Then the county gets involved at your newly improved land, mostly the road at this point...but down the road as buildings go up with permits and such all this get readjusted. Just know this and don't spend or invest said income in full to offset building debt or other large sums. I did some quick searches and like all accounting and anything to do with the feds it reads like Greek.
 
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