How Are the Workdays Going?

[DRaider90]

I have been talking it over with a couple people, and after some observations I have made I want to get the opinion of the volunteers on how the work days go. Because it seems so far no one showing up the workdays has spoken up about any issues/problems they have found. What I have noticed though is the lack of re-peat volunteers from the individuals that attend the workdays. The clubs that participate on here pretty much have a lot of the same people showing up to the workdays. I would say a good number of the people I see at most workdays are from other clubs like CTB or CFSJC. Maybe its the economy, or schedule conflicts etc, but it seems there has to be an underlying reason.

So a question to the volunteers, how do you think the work days are going? Post any comments good or bad about what you think about how the workdays are turning out. Because right now we haven't seen a drop in people attending, we have always had enough people show up for a workday. I just don't want to find out one workday we have a Bobcat/equipment lined up and only 3 people show up.

Please vote in the poll and/or post up more detailed thoughts here. This will be a public poll where we will be able to see who voted for what. Purely so we can make sure its the people showing up volunteering that are voting.

 

[drowe512]

There seems to be a lot of wasted time first thing in the morning. By the time the forest service has gone over everything, everyone signs the paper, get the day passes, it is after 10. If the signup could be done at the outpost, and maybe a list of projects so we could sign up for them I think it could get going faster. Even after Debbie told us the projects and the groups there was a lot of confusion over who was going where.

I would have appreciated a little guidance on the trail. I ended up on a trail that a new guy with a stock Jeep probably shouldn't have been on. I've only been to 2 work days so they may be unusual, but that is what I observed. I've enjoyed them and am planning on coming as often as possible.

David

 

[Yay!Gurrr]

I agree with the above statement.

Lots of standing around and talking, BSing etc... All of which is great.... BUT there is plenty of time for that ON the trail while working...

As the trail work list/maps are generated and work approved. I would think there could be some prior planning done to minimize the wasted time in the morning.

I honestly think there are a few main problems.
1) Many people don't want to be told what to do by someone they don't know or do not trust. They want/need to hear the instructions from the FS directly.

2) People are reluctant to step up an organize things if they think someone else is/has already done the planning. Everyone is afraid to step on someones toes for fear they get all butt hurt.. Thing is they find out that nothing has been done and its now 10am and the FS is finally there getting things rolling..

3) The constant and continual withholding of information as to what is actually being worked on until the last minute greatly contributes to the lack of trust.


I will be posting my solutions and plan of action in a seperate post.

 

[Tech11]

We don't know who is going to show up to work days. We put up polls and get singular volunteers, but we're not quite sure which clubs are showing and with how many. Having an accurate head count well in advance would greatly help with planning.

An accurate head count along with a list of work to be done would allow for teams to already be created and a plan to be made. Most of the BSing is figuring out how many volunteers are there, what needs to be done, dividing up and going from there.

Also something TBD is if terry the hotdog guy is there. If he is, then a break for lunch should be scheduled in. If he isn't then it should be made known and snacks/lunch should be left up to the individuals but it would be best to not to have to leave the trials.

 

[K45]

You will never have the best of conditions when it is a Government group and a private, nonprofit, etc.. group working togethor. There is so much procedure, formality stuff going on to cover the governments butt that straight forward communication gets lost. What we have is pretty good with what we have to work with, and aslong as this passion to make things better and the willingness of the Forestry department to allow this work, it can on ly get better. Hopefully if the merger of the forestry with the Agriculture department does not hurt things if it goes through. I get to work with the Forestry department often and the people that make up the department are great. It is the organinzation stucture that hurts their reputation. Keep up the good fight.

 

[chris]

The issues as I see them:

1. Too many people, not enough work.

- We need to push the FS to give us a punch list. If we have extra ppl show up. We can send them to another trail to do other work if the FS doesn't have enough on the official work day.

2. Too much standing around in the early part of the day while waiting on the FS to hand out orders.

- This is a FS problem. They are not organized. We can also help alleviate this by getting the sign in sheet from the FS and getting signed ahead of time before they arrive. (Since they are usually late.) Once they arrive they should spend 5-10 minutes dividing up tasks amongst the groups and communicating the work load. Ideally, this would be done ahead of time though. But again..it's a matter of getting the FS to cooperate.

I'll elaborate later if it's not clear.

 

[J.C.]

We don't know who is going to show up to work days. We put up polls and get singular volunteers, but we're not quite sure which clubs are showing and with how many.

This is not the purview of NC4x4.com/FoU. The various clubs, especially Adopt-A-Trail clubs, have been working with the FS for many years. All of the clubs have liaisons that coordinate directly with the FS about their specific trail as well as about FS workdays in general.

This is not to say that there cannot be cooperation between NC4x4.com/FoU and the various clubs that volunteer in the forest. I'm just saying that while club volunteers attend the same workdays and volunteer toward the same goal, they have a separate relationship with FS personnel.

 

[thecarman]

This is not the purview of NC4x4.com/FoU. The various clubs, especially Adopt-A-Trail clubs, have been working with the FS for many years. All of the clubs have liaisons that coordinate directly with the FS about their specific trail as well as about FS workdays in general.
This is not to say that there cannot be cooperation between NC4x4.com/FoU and the various clubs that volunteer in the forest. I'm just saying that while club volunteers attend the same workdays and volunteer toward the same goal, they have a separate relationship with FS personnel.

CNC has been operating this way. We have been getting the work details for our group as early as possible (which is still later than we want) from Terry Savery, and then trying to get the equipment and volunteers in time for the workday. If we could know the plan earlier, we could get organized better. We are not opposed to organizing as part of a larger group - this is just the relationship we currently have with the FS. But we need to know specifically what work we'll be doing before the club can invest any money in equipment rental. This is the case for the June workday - we still can't plan for the work, because we don't know what work to do. Terry just emailed me today and said she would have details next week. I hope we have time after that to get organized.

 

[Tech11]

This is not the purview of NC4x4.com/FoU.
This is not to say that there cannot be cooperation between NC4x4.com/FoU and the various clubs that volunteer in the forest. I'm just saying that while club volunteers attend the same workdays and volunteer toward the same goal, they have a separate relationship with FS personnel.

My thinking was the more communication we have the less confusion and wasted time I think there would be.

We are all working for the same goal, a coordinated effort could go a long way, and possibly reduce some of the frustrations.

 

[J.C.]

My thinking was the more communication we have the less confusion and wasted time I think there would be.

And I agree that your thinking is correct. The FS is aware, or at least should be, of expected volunteer turn out for each work day. Terry sends an email to all of the club reps to get a head count. As long as the clubs respond and Terry puts the info to use the FS should have a pretty good idea of how many vols they will have.

After volunteering in the forest for more than 20 years I can tell you for a fact; confusion and wasted time are inherent in the beast of bureaucracy

The FS personnel have many other concerns than the OHV trails. In our favor we have a District Ranger who is sympathetic to our cause. However, she has a much larger job to do than manage the OHV trails.

One of the ways that the FS could cut some of the confusion and wasted time at the start up of workdays would be to go back to the old model of a volunteer "volunteer coordinator". Someone who is dedicated and passionate about the trails and has the time to devote to the planning necessary to take some of the confusion and waste out of the workdays. Long time volunteer coordinator Scott Fields did an excellent job of this.

Unfortunately, Scott's replacement, did not show the same initiative and the result is that the FS now wants to "coordinate" the OHV workdays itself. Right now they do not want to go the "volunteer coordinator" route, preferring to work with the liaisons of the various clubs that volunteer in the forest (NC4x4.com is included in this group) and coordinate the effort themselves.

 

[NickMaul]

I have no administrative power like club leaders or Terry, but from my perspective I believe the volunteer days bring a good day of work but I have never left feeling I have done enough. After going to 8+ workdays I always see that lack of communication on the trail holds back completing simple tasks in a timely manner. Jeeps and trucks are spread along a trail with no cb, then trails get blocked, then someone has to double back and tell the people with no cb what the plan is. Now that it is open season at URE I think it is a good idea these workdays are planned over the weekend because I can see the time delays just getting longer.

 

[Sal-XK]

I would like to add that I've been able to work as hard or as little as I wanted to. If you stand there waiting for someone to say hey do something you might be standing around a lot. I don't see any day spent at Uwharrie hanging out a waste of time. I think we all volunteer because we love the place and want to do what we can to keep it open but we all have to make it to work on Monday as well. Eli is in charge yes but he is very open to ideas and listens to what we say. Sometimes to many people have an idea sometimes not enough it's just the way it goes. The last work day I was at we split into two groups suggested by the volunteers and it worked out well. The forest service and Eli worry about burning us out especially in the heat of the summer and I agree with them. It is what it is and its working. As a volunteer group goes I think things are going pretty well and its awesome to see so many people stepping up to work and donate there money. I though the idea of this was so awesome I donated money before I ever even seen Uwharrie and my first time on the trails was a volunteer day.

 

[DRaider90]

Keep the feedback coming, good, bad, or indifferent. After it looks like everyone has posted their opinions I will try to address the questions/concerns in a summary reply.

 

[GarnerFJ40]

I have no administrative power like club leaders or Terry, but from my perspective I believe the volunteer days bring a good day of work but I have never left feeling I have done enough. After going to 8+ workdays I always see that lack of communication on the trail holds back completing simple tasks in a timely manner. Jeeps and trucks are spread along a trail with no cb, then trails get blocked, then someone has to double back and tell the people with no cb what the plan is. Now that it is open season at URE I think it is a good idea these workdays are planned over the weekend because I can see the time delays just getting longer.

You should have been with us the other weekend then, shoveling about 15 truckloads of gravel into pickups, to cover the muddy section of rocky mountain loop, and then cutting up the tree on top near Kodak that had been down for awhile. Both of which had bypass trails cut that had to be blocked. That made for a long hot day!

 

[Dylan W.]

I have not made it to any workdays in a couple of years but I do have an idea about food.

I'd be willing to bet that , while at the Outpost, in the morning...a luch list can be made and I'd bet that Chris Cagle would/could have it made up and delivered to a specific location at a specific time.

Just make your list and pay in the morning. I'd just bet it is possible, if enough of you want it.( If terry is not going to be there)

 

[Der_Rock]

I have an inherent issue with those in power in the current forest service administration's choices to turn our beautiful natural lands into a junkyard with metal highway guardrail. We go to workdays to earn them federal funds and what do they do? buy this stuff because it's supposedly cheap. Yet they had money to build that big road bridge with contractors and 6x6 wood fencing with the same contractors. maybe if they left a covert there they could afford wood for 6x6 fencing for us to put up for them instead of the metal guardrailing they have us put up.

 

[Bobby D.]

my obeservations are as follows:
*set small obtainable goals.
*make sure that you have the tools needed for the task at hand
*make sure you have the licensed or skilled people to operate above mentioned tools. (the people you/we rented the machinery from should have offered a training corse on how to operate the skid steers properly)
*use the Incident Comand System to to structure what tasks people do... I am using the ICS as a guideline only. we would have to structure it to fit our needs.

some people can perform more than one duty, but at the same time you don't want to over load any body either.
*I saw a lot of people trying to be in to many places at the same time doing diffrent things.
*we need people with pratical supervisory skills.
*we need to know what people do for a living so we can assign tasks that will be more apporiate. we don't want a person with good comunication or management skills using a post hole digger or a shovel, or someone that is a floor landscaper giving orders &/or directions. Each person may be able to do both tasks, but it would be smarter to utilize the skills of the people we have to do the task at hand.

sorry if this sounds like a bunch of blabbering, but I would like to see the FOU become a success. the forrets needs people to volunteer or Uwharrie will become another victim to the Government Axe!!

 

[DRaider90]

In order for future heavy work weekends to be successful we will need some kind of structure. It will take some work but it will go a long way to improving organization. I will say it won't solve all the issues, but it will help.

 

[DRaider90]

On a side note. Its nice to see more people participating in the poll. I know the main reason is due to the heavy work weekend not going well, and that was the main reason for new votes. But I would rather have some kind of feed back (even if its only based on one workday) that none at all. And beyond that I would rather have people post up in here how they really feel about the workdays rather than let it turn into the mess we have in other areas.

 

[Bobby D.]

with all due respect I would like to revise what you stated above

*REVISED*

In order for future work weekends to be successful we will need structure. It will take a lot of work but it will go a long way to improving organization. it will help resolve a lot of the issues that we had.

 

[Tech11]

I have an inherent issue with those in power in the current forest service administration's choices to turn our beautiful natural lands into a junkyard with metal highway guardrail. We go to workdays to earn them federal funds and what do they do? buy this stuff because it's supposedly cheap. Yet they had money to build that big road bridge with contractors and 6x6 wood fencing with the same contractors. maybe if they left a covert there they could afford wood for 6x6 fencing for us to put up for them instead of the metal guardrailing they have us put up.
I'm probably the only one, but I have boycotted my help at workdays (which I went to a lot of before) until I see this troubling trend changed. I do not want uwharrie to get a single cent off my participation to buy metal guardrail !!!

I believe there was a quote along the lines of you can have the metal guardrail on the trail or metal guardrail closing the trails.

Bridges are being built to address drainage issues (the things that closed tellico) metal guardrail is also being used because it can't be burned. As that nice split rail fencing has been found in many campfires along the trails, and just lasts longer.

The guard rail is to keep people ON the marked trails. Illegal bypasses can cause issue with a number of things, drainage/archaeology/endangered species(animals and plants)

I know a lot of what is done SEEMS dumb/stupid/wasteful, but it's done for a reason, and it's almost ALWAYS done to benefit uwharrie.

Just remember you're dealing with a government agency, and the miles of red tape to do anything is staggering. Just ask the hot dog guy about what it took for him to sell hot dogs.

 

[Yay!Gurrr]

Next time make it a private pole I suspect many people will not only vote but will vote how they actually feel vs how they want others to see them vote.. I didn't vote...

 

[DRaider90]

I don't like guard rail on the trails, but I would rather have guard rail than a gate reading "CLOSED". You don't agree with the 2nd part of my statement, which is your right. If you want to petition for the end of using guard rail, go for it. But I will put my efforts else where, where I think we can actually make headway. And again that is my opinion, and you don't have to agree with it but I am entitled to it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have an inherent issue with those in power in the current forest service administration's choices to turn our beautiful natural lands into a junkyard with metal highway guardrail. We go to workdays to earn them federal funds and what do they do? buy this stuff because it's supposedly cheap. Yet they had money to build that big road bridge with contractors and 6x6 wood fencing with the same contractors. maybe if they left a covert there they could afford wood for 6x6 fencing for us to put up for them instead of the metal guardrailing they have us put up.

I'm probably the only one, but I have boycotted my help at workdays (which I went to a lot of before) until I see this troubling trend changed. I do not want uwharrie to get a single cent off my participation to buy metal guardrail !!!

X2
I totaly Agree that the metal guard rail looks like Crap. and a heavy duty Wood option would be a better choice.

 

[K45]

There can be landscaping done to help blend in some it does not stand out. it would be good to plant spruces, pines, etc.. To not only help with erosion control and slope stability, but help with aesthetics as well. This is something worth presenting to FS.