How to temporarily block illegal bypasses, and Closed Trails/FS Roads

Just for arguements sake, what is wrong with a bypass? Are these bypasses around an obstacle or just a bootleg new line up an obstacle. Before yall pounce on me it seems like legalizing a bypass around a difficult spot would eliminate folks bootlegging their way around. I enjoy wheeling as much for the scenery as I do the challenge so to ride all day looking at fences, walls, guardrails and street barricades doesn't sound too appealing. Imagine taking out the bypass at Kodak rock on the other side of the fence. Damn what a traffic jam! Just saying...
 
The only people I ever see off trail there are atv's. The times I've seen them go off trails is to avoid oncoming OHV traffic and to avoid water/mud on the trail.

I'm sure people go off trails for no good reason as well but by and large most of the bypasses are likely made by people trying to either help with traffic or just not get nasty in the water/mud.

I imagine it would suck to be the atv guy who pulls up behind my group usually of 4 or 5 jeeps. Theres not many places on trails large enough to let them pass without someone driving off the trail.
 
Decomp said:
If it's atv's and dirtbikes are the problem, just put a downed tree in the way. As a camper in those woods, dead trees are plentiful. And it could give you plenty of winch tech practice (which I also noticed is needed):beer:.
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trees are the poorest form of barricade for a bike or atv. when when I raced I hopped 18" logs on a xr400 at speed let alone an atv. besides that all you got to do is find the end and go around and unless its three feet of the ground and in a vertical bank thats pointless and no deterant. just like the others said, don't waste time and energy on a bandaide. treat them just like trespassers on your private property. make some very blunt points out of the a-holes and word will spread for awhile, traffic calms down-repeat when needed.
 
How to temporarily block bypasses: with a forest rangers ass holding a ticket book, with proceeds going directly to that local land use area.
 
A couple things. Keep in mind these statements are in reflection of Forest Service decisions/ideas, not my own personal opinions.

1.)The Hogwire is in the process of being replaced with w-beam guard railing. I don't know the exact official reason, but that is what is going on.

2.)Downed trees have been used in the past, but aren't always the best solution. On one work day (on Daniel right next to the 5 point turn) we winched fallen trees and logs together to make a barricade. We even hammered trail diamonds across the one tree for visibility/official look. We even used some of the split rail fencing that used to block off that area, someone had burned it in a little fire right there next to where it should have been. But slowly over the past months that blockade has been taken apart etc. We have also seen downed trees that we moved to the end of guard railing removed/pushed aside on Falls Dam so ATV's/Dirt Bikes could once again go by.

3.)Illegal bypasses turn into spider trails, which cause a whole list of issues. Essentially anything that isn't a planned bypass can be harmful to the environment around the trail. Planned bypasses have to pass hydrology surveys, Archaeological surveys, etc etc. Most of them are just ATVs/Dirtbikes wanting to get around traffic jams, or muddy areas. And yes there are some that are to avoid harder obstacles.

Key word here is illegal bypasses. Sanctioned bypasses like the one around the Kodak Rock Garden aren't an issue. That bypass was put in by the Forest Service. Same thing for the bypass that goes around the double ledge right before the Rock Garden. We are also talking closed Forest Service Roads which are ALL OVER the area. There is one that I mentioned above on Daniel.

4.)Traffic jams aren't an excuse to drive off the trail for ATV's/Dirtbikes. I understand it sucks riding an ATV/Dirtbike and getting stuck behind a group of vehicles, but that is apart of wheeling. The only time its appropriate is downhill traffic meets up hill (talking suvs/trucks), and there is absolutely no room to pass on the trail. Then yeah, someone has to pull off the trail and let the others pass.

You may or may not agree with the above, but the bypasses ATVs/Dirtbikes make damage parts of the forest not set up to be a trail.

5.)I don't always agree with what is going on at Uwharrie. But these are the rules/game plan that the Forest Service has to abide by. And when it comes to stuff like the w-beam guard railing, its what the current Forest Service has decided to be the solution. The split rail fence and hog wire weren't/aren't what the current Forest Service sees as the solution to illegal bypasses and spider trails.

6.)Spider Trails and Illegal bypasses are a real issue, and something does have to be done about it. It may not be aesthetically pleasing out in the Forest but there has to be some kind of detourant (sp?). Because once ATVs make an illegal bypass, other little bypasses stem off of it. Then those illegal bypasses turn into spider trails running throughout the woods. At one point on Falls Dam (where the mud pit and LONG section of guard rail is) there were ATV/Dirtbike spider trails going all the way back to the lake. Who knows what kind of run off (erosion) it was causing, and possibly what Archeological sites it could have ran through?

7.)Some say fines/patrols are the answer. Which is a nice concept/idea. In reality the Forest Service doesn't have the man power (One LEO, and a handful of Rangers) to have enough patrols to stop all the people going off the trail (or even make a big enough dent in it). Its a big thing right now for them to take the Kubota side by side they have on the trails for any kind of patrol, let alone be out there enough to catch people on illegal bypasses. Because you also have to consider they aren't going to catch the people out on the spider trails that they can't see from the regular trails.

So in light of all this, the Forest Service has decided its easier/cheaper to play the blockade game than it is to do patrols.
 
my guess would be they would treat you just like they treat our trails... with disrespect...


IMHO I think the solution is education!

handing out fliers that will get thrown on the ground.

posting information on websites that will get belittled and ridiculed...
but that is a start...
 
Maybe if anybody knew somebody who had some push on other fourmns might be able to do it. But then again you run into the fact they might just push you off.
 
So I have a question now.

Do we have the Highway Patrol officers to catch every person speeding in the state?
Do we have enough Police officers to catch every burglar in every city?
Do we have enough FBI in this country to catch every terror attempt?

No No and unfortunately No; however, increased highway patrol patrols for speeding cuts down on speeding significantly. Increased patrols in neighborhoods cuts down on burglary. Increased focus on terror cut down on terror attempts.

The forest service may not be able to catch ever person off trail or creating a bypass, or drinking on the trail BUT... increased patrols for everything will increase awareness that rules should be followed. I have been going to Uwharrie for almost 10 years now and have never seen any personell from the forest service on the trails. I have seen them randomly in the parking lots but that is rare as well. It seems to me if they had someone out randomly once or twice per month and ride down a trail or two for an hour and check for trail permits, alchohol, firearm regulations violations (not sure what they are in natl forests), etc. word would get out that "hey the rangers are patrolling and writing tickets, follow the rules or prepare to pay." No they wont catch everyone every time but word of mouth on forums like this one will get out and people will start following the rules more often.

I just have a hard time hearing the lack of personell excuse. If the highway patrol took the same stance we would have speed limit signs every 10 ft down the interstate and still wonder why people were consistently breaking the speed limit. They get out and catch people speeding and the fear of getting caught keeps most people in line.

Am I wrong or missing something?
 
Exploderpilot said:
So I have a question now.

Do we have the Highway Patrol officers to catch every person speeding in the state?
Do we have enough Police officers to catch every burglar in every city?
Do we have enough FBI in this country to catch every terror attempt?

No No and unfortunately No; however, increased highway patrol patrols for speeding cuts down on speeding significantly. Increased patrols in neighborhoods cuts down on burglary. Increased focus on terror cut down on terror attempts.

The forest service may not be able to catch ever person off trail or creating a bypass, or drinking on the trail BUT... increased patrols for everything will increase awareness that rules should be followed. I have been going to Uwharrie for almost 10 years now and have never seen any personell from the forest service on the trails. I have seen them randomly in the parking lots but that is rare as well. It seems to me if they had someone out randomly once or twice per month and ride down a trail or two for an hour and check for trail permits, alchohol, firearm regulations violations (not sure what they are in natl forests), etc. word would get out that "hey the rangers are patrolling and writing tickets, follow the rules or prepare to pay." No they wont catch everyone every time but word of mouth on forums like this one will get out and people will start following the rules more often.

I just have a hard time hearing the lack of personell excuse. If the highway patrol took the same stance we would have speed limit signs every 10 ft down the interstate and still wonder why people were consistently breaking the speed limit. They get out and catch people speeding and the fear of getting caught keeps most people in line.

Am I wrong or missing something?
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You are not missing anything. Enforcement is the best "cure" for what ails URE. Getting it to actually happen is another story.
I would love to see the FS get a trail capable rig to patrol with...an "unmarked" would be even better.
 
This isn't a trail patrol thread, but I guess that is what it is going to turn into. Again, the following doesn't reflect my opinion (except the last section I denoted).

In reality the Forest Service doesn't have the man power (One LEO, and a handful of Rangers) to have enough patrols to stop all the people going off the trail (or even make a big enough dent in it).
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I guess I should add to that, the one Law Enforcement Officer we currently have (I think he has been there 2, maybe 3 years tops) was considered a big accomplishment. Because until 2/3 years ago there was ZERO Law Enforcement. Only other people that could hand out tickets were Rangers, and of those at one point (it may still be, but I doubt it) was the head ranger.

I don't know an exact number of full time/almost full time Forest Service personnel at Uwharrie, but by estimate somewhere in the figure of 10 people sound close. Maybe 15 tops. That includes the FS lady that answers the phones, etc. They actually had her out on the last work day (her 1st ever, she was a trooper being out there) with me and our group on Falls Dam. The other people they have out at the work days besides Rodney are usually the burn/burn control guys. So of the people in the Forest Service out there, the number involved with the OHV System is even smaller. And then the ones that have authority in that group is even smaller.

I know Deborah Walker (Head Ranger) and Officer Foote (LEO) for sure, I cannot speak for Terry Savery or Rodney but I would at least hope Terry could write tickets. So we are talking 2 people for sure, maybe 3 if not 4 MAX have the ability to write tickets at Uwharrie. If anyone knows of anyone else in the FS that can write tickets that I missed feel free to post up. And consider these people work for the entire National Forest, not just the OHV portion/trails. You can't forget there are multiple campgrounds, lake/day rec areas, hiking/bike trails, horses, the shooting range (closed now), among other activities out at Uwharrie that the Forest Service has to be involved in.

I am not making excuses for the Forest Service, but just presenting their situation. My job goes both ways. So we have 2-4 people with the authority to give tickets in a National Forest spanning thousands and thousands of acres. They have what looks to be an almost brand new Kubota side by side to use for Trail Inventory and Patrols. Now its a big enough deal for them to get out for Trail Inventory between work days, that sometimes it has to be done during workdays. And in reality every time I am out on the trail (work day or not) I keep a mental list of items I see to report back because I know its hard for 1 (maybe 2) people to do trail inventory (Terry Savery is the main one that does Trail Inventory).

Throw a donated vehicle into the mix for Patrols. Take into consideration the above about the Kubota etc. It would be nice for them to have a Jeep to ride around in. But there is no such thing as an "unmarked" patrol vehicle on the trails. Back when they used to do ride alongs everyone knew what vehicles the Ranger's usually rode in. And this is when the Rangers rode with in a couple different vehicles. Just think if it was narrowed down to one. Just another thing to consider.

----------------------------------------------
-My .02:
Reality of the situation being, even with the Kubota they have, and a possible donated vehicle Forest Service Patrols won't be the big resolution to our issue(s). It would be a nice start, but without the personnel to back it up I don't see it making as big of an impact as some think it will. This is why we try to generate alternative methods to deal with the situation. This includes bringing back the Ride Alongs, the Volunteer Trail Patrol mess, this thread about temp. blocking bypasses etc, and others.

So if anything yes lets get some kind of patrols going, but also in the reality of the situation lets also find alternative solutions that will help fix the problem.
 
I dont think there needs to be unmarked patrols or even a real patrol. What I am thinking is that if they made a presence known, take a 2 hour shift one or two days a month and ride through the trail in the kubota and just chat with OHV users just like any of us do when we go ride. Not necessarily all negative conversations but just to be seen on the trails in uniform.
 
Dang my ears are burning!

Hey guys, I'm Mike and I'm new to the forum....I visit Uhwarrie as much as possible, I love it there, and more often than not....it's on a (gasp) ......DIRTBIKE.....but I have had my Dodge Ram on the trails a couple of times and I have a '83 Bronco that is going to be a dedicated Uwharrie truck.... if I can ever find time to start that project.

I was just reading through this thread and was hoping I could give a different perspective of the illegal bypass problem.
I agree 100% with the fact that people should stay on the trails. And I agree that education is one of the best solutions to many of the problems at Uhwarrie.

I'm sure I've been guilty of using an illegal bypass but I can assure you that it was unintentional...by that I mean I don't go "bushwacking" through an area that hasn't been used before....for example if I encountered a group of 4x4s stopped on the trail and saw an "established" trail going around the 4x4s I would use it.

Another example, I've been on some trails at Uwharrie and when you get to a hillclimb you'll see multiple routes up the hill and after reading this I'm pretty sure some of those were illegal bypasses but at the time I thought they were options.
And to be honest I'm still not 100% sure.

I can give you one last example...I have led my young son around some of the deeper or more difficult mud holes... normally you can find a trail (normally about the size of an ATV...but I'm not pointing fingers) just around the edge but obviously off the trail around the mud. BTW he's older now so we go straight through now.

There are multiple reasons why bypasses would be created and I really think that education would be an excellent way to prevent these things from happening.

I've been riding dirtbikes for over 30 years and I see "new" riders (and experienced riders) making honest mistakes all the time, myself included. As I was typing this reply (which is getting a bit lengthy) I was thinking how helpful a riders/drivers education course could be for everyone that enjoys the OHV trails around NC.

Think about this, anyone can buy an ATV/Dirt bike/4x4, and with no previous off road experience buy a trail pass and hit the trails wide open. How helpful would it be to have some sort of class/training (even if it's just basic trail etiquette).
That class could be used to inform people of the bypass problems and other problems....like those knuckle heads that like to do doughnuts in the gravel parking lots when it hasn't rained in about three weeks!

A fee could be charged for the class and it could be made a requirement to get your trail pass....it might not be popular but it could help eliminate some of the problems. It's just an idea.....
 
Leget said:
Hey guys, I'm Mike and I'm new to the forum....I visit Uhwarrie as much as possible, I love it there, and more often than not....it's on a (gasp) ......DIRTBIKE.....but I have had my Dodge Ram on the trails a couple of times and I have a '83 Bronco that is going to be a dedicated Uwharrie truck.... if I can ever find time to start that project.
I was just reading through this thread and was hoping I could give a different perspective of the illegal bypass problem.
I agree 100% with the fact that people should stay on the trails. And I agree that education is one of the best solutions to many of the problems at Uhwarrie.
I'm sure I've been guilty of using an illegal bypass but I can assure you that it was unintentional...by that I mean I don't go "bushwacking" through an area that hasn't been used before....for example if I encountered a group of 4x4s stopped on the trail and saw an "established" trail going around the 4x4s I would use it.
Another example, I've been on some trails at Uwharrie and when you get to a hillclimb you'll see multiple routes up the hill and after reading this I'm pretty sure some of those were illegal bypasses but at the time I thought they were options.
And to be honest I'm still not 100% sure.
I can give you one last example...I have led my young son around some of the deeper or more difficult mud holes... normally you can find a trail (normally about the size of an ATV...but I'm not pointing fingers) just around the edge but obviously off the trail around the mud. BTW he's older now so we go straight through now.
There are multiple reasons why bypasses would be created and I really think that education would be an excellent way to prevent these things from happening.
I've been riding dirtbikes for over 30 years and I see "new" riders (and experienced riders) making honest mistakes all the time, myself included. As I was typing this reply (which is getting a bit lengthy) I was thinking how helpful a riders/drivers education course could be for everyone that enjoys the OHV trails around NC.
Think about this, anyone can buy an ATV/Dirt bike/4x4, and with no previous off road experience buy a trail pass and hit the trails wide open. How helpful would it be to have some sort of class/training (even if it's just basic trail etiquette).
That class could be used to inform people of the bypass problems and other problems....like those knuckle heads that like to do doughnuts in the gravel parking lots when it hasn't rained in about three weeks!
A fee could be charged for the class and it could be made a requirement to get your trail pass....it might not be popular but it could help eliminate some of the problems. It's just an idea.....
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Dirt Bike Rider... hmmm.... we will send our angry mob with pitch forks and torches your way. :lol: Just kidding.

The points you bring up have actually been voiced by ATV/Dirtbike riders before, so you aren't the only one. The education program has also been brought up before, it just we haven't figured out a good way to implement it. The idea of having it as requirement to get an OHV pass is the easiest way, but I just don't see that happening. At least not the way things are right now. The Forest Service just about 5 years ago (maybe 6?) moved to a pass system, its used to be a honor/pay system. I think this is where we need to head direction wise, but until then we do need to set up an education awareness plan.
 
Chris at Eldorado used to teach an atv class but there was virtually no interest so he quit.
And we've had an enforcement officer for many years. Sometimes there's a gap between them for a spell but there is usually one in place.
 
DRaider90 said:
Dirt Bike Rider... hmmm.... we will send our angry mob with pitch forks and torches your way. :lol: Just kidding.
The points you bring up have actually been voiced by ATV/Dirtbike riders before, so you aren't the only one. The education program has also been brought up before, it just we haven't figured out a good way to implement it. The idea of having it as requirement to get an OHV pass is the easiest way, but I just don't see that happening. At least not the way things are right now. The Forest Service just about 5 years ago (maybe 6?) moved to a pass system, its used to be a honor/pay system. I think this is where we need to head direction wise, but until then we do need to set up an education awareness plan.
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Yeah...I'm a dirt biker, I tried to redeem myself by mentioning that I have a 4x4 :driver:
I can see that resources for a training program would be a huge problem.

I guess maybe signage and barriers are the only way to keep people on the trails, I like the cable with PVC pipe solution, it's quick and cheap and harder to bypass. You could just funnel people through the correct route.

I'd personally like to see more signage on the trails....I have a hard time navigating through occasionally, sometimes I zig when I should zag.

Now that I've found this site and found out about the volunteering I hope to get out there and help out as much as possible.
 
OK, I don't personally like the gaurd rails and other ugly stuff like that. What about something natural like Honeysuckle, Briar's, Blackberry, or Poison ivy? All natural and already found at URE on the trails. Has this been pursued in the past or even tested? When I used to ride trail bike these things were avoided at all costs! Another thing on my thoughts are the idiot's that are in 4x4's as in jeep's, toyotas, or whatever, don't park in the middle of trails to give a reason for somebody to go around. I know it happens, and some of the problem is because of this. Just something to consider. I'd rather plant something that grows other than guardrail!
 
more questions... who enforces the boating laws on Badin Lake or any lake in NC for that matter? http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/statelaws/ncarolina.html

It seems like a similar ORV and trail usage system could be put into place. Oregon seems to be having success in their national forests with a similar system. http://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/safety.shtml I recently moved back from seattle and rode occasionally down at pot flats, oregon always saw a ranger in at least one of the parking lots checking safety cards and ID's. I think the safety class also included a stay on the trail and keep it open for everyone training. I have a brochure from one of the riding areas ini oregon i could mail to someone if they want to check out all the rules and stuff that are on the common trail maps out there as well.

Also found a link to a brief overview of what is covered in the class.
http://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/docs/Riding_Safe_smart_and_ethically.pdf
http://www.oregon.gov/OPRD/ATV/ATV_Publications.shtml
 
Leget said:
Another option......San Bernardino National Forest Service uses trained OHV Volunteers to help patrol the trails there.
I know you guys volunteer for work days but I'm not aware of a volunteer patrol.
http://www.nationalforestassociation.org/ohvhosts.php
http://www.sharetrails.org/magazine/article/?id=1716
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Volunteer Patrols are actually used on the Rubicon trail and other National Forests with OHV areas. But the idea of a volunteer trail patrol didn't go over well on here, I did post something about it a little while back. The point my come where we have a volunteer trail patrol even if its not the popular option.
 
DRaider90 said:
Volunteer Patrols are actually used on the Rubicon trail and other National Forests with OHV areas. But the idea of a volunteer trail patrol didn't go over well on here, I did post something about it a little while back. The point my come where we have a volunteer trail patrol even if its not the popular option.
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I don't understand why it wouldn't be well received.

You can sign me up.......
 
First and foremost EVERYONE that rides the trails should have enough MORALS to not turn a blind eye. I'm sure someone has seen others doing things wrong and didn't think it mattered. On the other hand they might have done it and said " Just this once would be OK". All that said enforcement is hard to apply to such a large area but possible.
As far as making barriers old light poles can be cut and handled easy. Buried in the ground or linked together like a fence. Another option is some concrete plants pour their overages into a mold and make a super sized lego block. These can be bought fairly cheap or obtained for free if you find someone with a huge lot to get rid of.
My 2 cents.
 
Your Hot Dog Guy! said:
OK, I don't personally like the gaurd rails and other ugly stuff like that. What about something natural like Honeysuckle, Briar's, Blackberry, or Poison ivy? All natural and already found at URE on the trails. Has this been pursued in the past or even tested? When I used to ride trail bike these things were avoided at all costs! Another thing on my thoughts are the idiot's that are in 4x4's as in jeep's, toyotas, or whatever, don't park in the middle of trails to give a reason for somebody to go around. I know it happens, and some of the problem is because of this. Just something to consider. I'd rather plant something that grows other than guardrail!
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+1 On what he said.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
Your Hot Dog Guy! said:
OK, I don't personally like the gaurd rails and other ugly stuff like that. What about something natural like Honeysuckle, Briar's, Blackberry, or Poison ivy? All natural and already found at URE on the trails. Has this been pursued in the past or even tested? When I used to ride trail bike these things were avoided at all costs! Another thing on my thoughts are the idiot's that are in 4x4's as in jeep's, toyotas, or whatever, don't park in the middle of trails to give a reason for somebody to go around. I know it happens, and some of the problem is because of this. Just something to consider. I'd rather plant something that grows other than guardrail!
Click to expand...
I agree with this and wanted to use plantings in conjunction with my hogwire fencing but as I looked into it more, these plants are considered "non-native" or invasive and should not be introduced into the forest ecosystem. That was a big part of my idea behind the wire fence is that natural forest plants could/would grow into it creating an even more physical barrier.
This doesn't say that native plants couldn't be used but actually finding in a "ready to plant" container would be a challenge. AS a landscaper I could name hundreds of barrier plants to install that no one would want to tangle with but who knows if we would be planting the next Kudzu?
 
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