hp d30 rind and pinion install

1997tj

1997tj

Active Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Location
Greevnille NC
Im having to install new 4:88 ring and pinion gears in my hp d30 and the install kit didnt come with a crush sleeve. How do I set the preload on the bearings?. Ive setup many rear ends but ive always preloaded the bearings using a crush sleeve. I just need to know how this setup works. Thanks
 
Start with a random amount of preload shims, say 0.040", tighten pinion nut to spec, and measure rotational torque. If it's too tight, add shims in 0.010" increments. If it's too loose, remove shims on 0.010" increments and then use the smaller shims to dial it in until the rotational torque is correct. With new bearings, I shoot for 25 in/lbs rotational torque.
 
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You should be able to go back with the same amount of shim that came out of the original gear set. That will get you pretty close to where you need to be...and if you're lucky it'll be right on.

From Billavista's writeup...

Pinion-bearing Preload
Definition: Bearing preload is a measure of the rolling resistance in a bearing or “bearing stiffness”. As a cone is pressed against its cup, the point or line of contact between the roller and cup becomes larger, friction increases and preload is said to be higher. Correct bearing preload is a trade-off between bearing stiffness and the wear resulting from the preloading.
Think of it as: How tightly the pinion-bearing cones are pressed into their cups and consequently how stiff they are to rotate.
How Measured: An inch-pound torque wrench is used on the pinion nut to measure the torque required to rotate the installed pinion.
Adjusted Via: Outer pinion shims placed between the face of the outer pinion-bearing cone and the shoulder on the pinion shaft. Adding shims causes the pinion-bearings to be spaced away from their cups, reducing pre-load and vice-versa. Add shims to reduce pre-load and remove shims to increase preload.
Note: Pinion preload is normally specified without the carrier or axle shafts installed, with the yoke installed and pinion nut torqued to spec but with no pinion oil seal installed. An installed carrier can add 2-4 in-lbs and a new oil seal adds approx. 3 in-lbs. Too little preload diminishes load-bearing capacity as the load-bearing surfaces between rollers and cup are decreased. Too much preload increases friction, resulting in excessive noise, heat, and rapid wear.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup/
 
25 in lbs and you are going to kill the pinion bearings in a short period. stick around 12-15 and you should be good to go. as little as .001 can change your preload quickly. How much you hammer on the pinion nut can change your preload also. Be carefull if you tighten the nut to much because you can actually cause a preload shim to flatten and spit out.

Also fwiw, pinion preload on a hp30 is usually somewhere around .075 shim
 
Im working on this tonight. All I have is a click style inch pound style torque wrench. Will this work to check the preload? Ive always been taught to let the bar we use to hold the pinion flange while crushing the crush sleeve swing down and judge it like that and I have never had any pinion bearing trouble. I guess I can judge it the same?
 
1997tj said:
Im working on this tonight. All I have is a click style inch pound style torque wrench. Will this work to check the preload? Ive always been taught to let the bar we use to hold the pinion flange while crushing the crush sleeve swing down and judge it like that and I have never had any pinion bearing trouble. I guess I can judge it the same?
Click to expand...

If you do not have a in/lb torque wrench, you can do it by feel or a number of other ways. I have in the past used a 24" pipe wrench attached to the yoke at a 90* angle. When I release it, if it stops short of 6 o'clock, it's too tight. If it swings after reaching 6 o'clock, it's too loose. Not an ideal way to do it, but it has been effective for me in a pinch.

Also, every single Dana Spicer reference manual (FSM, Spicer site, included instructions, etc) I have ever read instructed 15-30 in/lb on new, non lubricated bearings. I know the installation books that come with gear sets may say to go 10-20. But I prefer to err on the side of preload on the higher side of spec just to keep floating gear whine due to a loose pinion from happening. Bearing preload will lessen over time, not increase and that is my reasoning.

Just my $.02 but we all know there's more than 1 way to accomplish the same goal :)
 
Will a normal click style inch pound wrench work or does it have to have a dial? Like would i set the wrench to 15 in pounds and keep turning the pinion with it until it clicks? Also what should the pinion nut be torqued to? I assume around 200 ft lbs
 
According to the 1999 XJ FSM, you need 160 ft/lbs on the nut with preload being 15-35 in/lbs if using new bearings and 10-20 if using used ones.
You *could* set the torque wrench to 10 or 15 and see if it clicks and also 20, 25, 30, whatever you decide is OK and make sure it doesn't click. In theory, that'll put it in between the high and low end. But you will not get an accurate reading because torque to keep spinning will be lower than torque needed to start rotating.
Remember to save the NEW pinion nut for the final assembly and use the old one for set up.

Disclaimer: I don't think that it will accurate to measure that way.
 
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Well looks like im going to go with the swinging bar method that we have always used here in the shop. We have never had any problems. I wanted to try and do it the proper way but seeing as no one here has the proper inch pound torgue wrench im just gonna have to wing it :rockon:
 
I paid $$$$ for a rotational torque inch pound unit. It works great but took some effort to get used to trying to get a reading while turning. The initial break of friction spikes the needle every time so the floating pointer doesn't make an effective stop. My only regret is not buying one with a more usable range and the fact that all the pinion nuts require one to two adapters since its 3/8 drive. Works great on pump impeller resistance too!
 
I want to get one. I asked the snap on man for one today when he was at my shop but he had no clue what I was talking about.So I wasnt sure what to order.
 
I got better luck when shopping asking about a rotational torque gauge. Add wrench on the end and most people think clicky clicky. Bet Snappy on here could hook you up. But I almost bet it want be a major well known "wrencher's" brand name on it.


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this is exactly what I got, picture came from pirate (I think)
 
It's a handily tool for other uses too. Like steering gear overhaul, tranny overhaul among others.
Mine is a Mac I bought back in 98 for about $220 iirc.
 
Im having a tough time getting this preload dialed in bc my G2 install kit only came with 5 shims to adjust the bearing preload and they are all close to the same thickness. And my old shims are not fit to use again.
 
ok thanks. Another thing I have it set up but the backlash is at 5 to 6 degrees. Thats a little tight isnt it? I thought it was normally supposed to be 9 to 12
 
How much should I adjust from here?
 

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That pattern is way too shallow. Add 0.010" -0.020" to the pinion depth and recheck.
Did you remember to reinstall the oil baffle behind the inner pinion race? It is 0.020" if I remember correctly.
 
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Yes its in there. I moved the pinion in and then my backash was not consistent. The carrier was warped by about .030 so I just picked one up from ecgs and Im setting it up tonight
 
I borrowed the correct torque wrench and with the shims I was provided with the install kit the closest I can get is 35 in pounds for the bearing preload. They only gave me a few .020 shims and a few .012 in shims so I cant dial it in like I would like too. This is brand new unlubricated bearings. It feels alright and I think once they get some grease on them and get broken in they will be fine.
 
I would have no reservations whatsoever about that. I set all of mine up on the higher side of spec for reasons I mentioned earlier. As long as it rotates smoothly I'd run it.
 
And drive side. It's definitely getting closer. How does this patten look?
 

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