HP30 - Revolution Gear Install

crkid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
XJ HP30 that I have in my Jeep TJ; installing Eaton elocker with Revolution 4.56 gears. Few notable "issues" listed below...
-All inner pinion race shims were burred from punch - had to take all of them to a bastard file to remove sharp edges.
-Revolution did not supply pinion preload (small ID shims) or carrier preload shims down to 0.003". How is gear set up even possible without adjustment this fine?
-1310 ubolt yoke slid off existing Spicer SVL 3.73 pinion relatively easy. No play, nice tight fit, slight tug and bam removed from pinion. Same yoke would slide about 1/3 of the way on new pinion before binding. It is currently installed with my set up bearings and took an impact with non locking nut to drive yoke on to new pinion splines. Is this normal?
-How do I remove this yoke without damaging my bearings?

Thanks for your input!
 
crkid said:
How do I remove this yoke without damaging my bearings?
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Remove the carrier, then brass hammer to the end of the pinion. Or a hard hammer and some type of punch. I have a cheapo sheared off 1/2” socket extension that is perfect for tasks like this.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Remove the carrier, then brass hammer to the end of the pinion. Or a hard hammer and some type of punch. I have a cheapo sheared off 1/2” socket extension that is perfect for tasks like this.
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Sure, but wouldn't this be hammering tapered roller bearing into outer race to push yoke off? That isn't kosher for bearings.
 
I use a dead blow or Like Matt said a hammer and punch. Air chisel with punch works too. I also flap wheel the ID of the outer pinion bearing for a better slip fit.
 
LumberjackLloyd said:
Sure, but wouldn't this be hammering tapered roller bearing into outer race to push yoke off? That isn't kosher for bearings.
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It’s less than ideal, but ain’t gonna hurt em. Also, you pretty much have no choice, unless you build or buy a yoke puller. I have a lot of tools and am quick to spend money on new ones and I still don’t have a yoke puller. I bet even gearboi @Jody Treadway doesn’t have a yoke puller.
 
No need to church it up, tap the yoke off with a hammer. You won't hurt anything.
If you wanna be fancy, you can use a 2 jaw puller. But really, no need to.
I've seen aftermarket gears come with a thick layer of anti-corrosion paint/dacrament on the splines. I just hit it with a flap disc till the yoke slides easier.
 
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Found a harmonic balancer puller works perfect for pulling yoke. Ran first pattern and backlash is dead on at 0.0065". Thinking I need to add 0.003" behind inner pinion race...thoughts?

@Jody Treadway @jeepinmatt
 

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LumberjackLloyd said:
Found a harmonic balancer puller works perfect for pulling yoke. Ran first pattern and backlash is dead on at 0.0065". Thinking I need to add 0.003" behind inner pinion race...thoughts?

@Jody Treadway @jeepinmatt
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It's a hair shallow. Now's the time to make it perfect. You'll have 0.0025" pinion depth shims in your kit. Add one to the pinion stack and button it up.
 
Jody Treadway said:
It's a hair shallow. Now's the time to make it perfect. You'll have 0.0025" pinion depth shims in your kit. Add one to the pinion stack and button it up.
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Thinnest inner race shims I have measure 0.0030-0.0035"...I will put one of those in I guess?

The shim pack for pinion preload (small diameter shims) didn't even come with shims thinner than 0.010"...and Matt at revolution doesn't seem to understand my issue because he has "sold these for 10 years and never had an issue with that same shim pack"...
 
LumberjackLloyd said:
Thinnest inner race shims I have measure 0.0030-0.0035"...I will put one of those in I guess?

The shim pack for pinion preload (small diameter shims) didn't even come with shims thinner than 0.010"...and Matt at revolution doesn't seem to understand my issue because he has "sold these for 10 years and never had an issue with that same shim pack"...
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They're gonna be 2.5 thousandths. Add one and rerun a pattern. You're very close, but still shallow.
 
LumberjackLloyd said:
Are you saying I am measuring wrong? (Good condition mitutoyo mics) or i need to source a shim kit with 0.0025” shims? If so, where from? ECGS is fairly close.
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The kits come with 0.0025, 0.005, 0.010 and 0.0020 shims. That's my point.
ECGS will have a kit if yours didn't come with it.
Your pattern is acceptable. Just a hair shallow.

Edit: add 1 of the thinnest shim you have.
 
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After a long winded conversation with Revolution Gears, Matt, sales manager, and Chris, another tech rep., they have refused to acknowledge any wrong doing or lack of quality. No acknowledgement of sending poor quality shims with large burrs, no acknowledgement of poor fitting and out of spec pinion splines as "they are all that way" and no solution to the correct pinion preload shims.

I can live with deburring shims and I can go through the unfortunate process of driving/pulling the yoke on/off, but not understanding I have no way of setting pinion preload with only 0.020" and 0.010" shims is ignorant. Matt even sent a second bag of pinion preload shims after confirming there were thinner shims, only to find the same 3x 0.020" and 3x 0.010" pinion preload shims that are of no help to me.

I suggest you go elsewhere for your drivetrain needs.

@Jody Treadway @jeepinmatt
 
LumberjackLloyd said:
After a long winded conversation with Revolution Gears, Matt, sales manager, and Chris, another tech rep., they have refused to acknowledge any wrong doing or lack of quality. No acknowledgement of sending poor quality shims with large burrs, no acknowledgement of poor fitting and out of spec pinion splines as "they are all that way" and no solution to the correct pinion preload shims.

I can live with deburring shims and I can go through the unfortunate process of driving/pulling the yoke on/off, but not understanding I have no way of setting pinion preload with only 0.020" and 0.010" shims is ignorant. Matt even sent a second bag of pinion preload shims after confirming there were thinner shims, only to find the same 3x 0.020" and 3x 0.010" pinion preload shims that are of no help to me.

I suggest you go elsewhere for your drivetrain needs.

@Jody Treadway @jeepinmatt
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I've got boxes of the shims you need. I'll gladly mail you a shim kit on Monday. Lemme know if you'd like me to. I'll be at shop later today
 
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Snail mail still failed to deliver shims yesterday @Jody Treadway . The good folks at ECGS hooked me up with a fresh pack of shims and did final assembly yesterday on my day off. Backlash tightened up from 0.009" to 0.006-0.007" with 0.003" of carrier preload added to each side.
 

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Ok. Paging gear experts.

Moving on to the rear 44 with existing elocker and new Revolution thick gears. Removed 0.047" inner pinion shim behind pinion head and running inner baffle/shims behind inner race to help keep oil at outer pinion bearing with rotated pinion. Also running outer slinger to prevent oil from pooling at seal. Am I correct with this?

Carrier was tight to pull out with 0.140"+0.005" RG shims and 0.132" nonRG shim (all larger OD outboard shims). Put it together yesterday minus the RG side 0.005" shim and got the pattern below with 0.008" BL and no perceivable carrier end play; dropped in fairly easy. I wasn't planning on adjusting pinion depth, but I would like to tighten the BL to the 0.006-0.007" range. I have always thought dana 30/44 case preload was 0.006-0.008". Do I slide in the 0.005" and let it ride? Will that help push the RG over to tighten up BL?
 

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You're close, but shallow.
I would add 0.0025" pinion depth to start. You *may* need 0.005".
For backlash, i.wouldnt lose sleep over 0.008". But if you wanted to get it lower, you'll need an outboard shim kit.
Personally, if it were in my shop, I'd add 0.0025" to the pinion, for which will marginally tighten up the backlash, and let it ride.
 
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Jody Treadway said:
You're close, but shallow.
I would add 0.0025" pinion depth to start. You *may* need 0.005".
For backlash, i.wouldnt lose sleep over 0.008". But if you wanted to get it lower, you'll need an outboard shim kit.
Personally, if it were in my shop, I'd add 0.0025" to the pinion, for which will marginally tighten up the backlash, and let it ride.
Click to expand...

Ok...I will add 0.0025" of pinion depth and re-run pattern.

Are the outboard shims you are referencing Spicer 701149x (range from 0.123 to 0.148 thickness)? I assume this method is preferred instead of a large stack of shims under each carrier bearing? With that pack being $100, I may just button it up as is.

Any issue with omitting 0.005" outboard shim and using a 0.005" shim under RG bearing? My logic says ok.

Also tired of how &$^@#*#% tight these yokes are on the Revolution splines are for no reason.
 
Update. Moved pinion deeper 0.005" and reinstalled carrier with 0.005" (2x 0.0025") under RG carrier bearing to simulate the same carrier preload I pulled it apart with. BL was too tight at 0.004".

Pulled carrier and took one 0.0025" shim and moved to non RG side. BL was then measured at 0.006" and the following patterns were ran. Thoughts?

It seems like sliding in the carrier is a little easier with the large outboard shims vs races directly into housing with inboard shims like the D30 I just did. Carrier went in about half way and seated fairly easy with my dead blow. I'm wondering if I really need a couple thou more of preload...

Carrier measures 0.0015" of runout at RG flange and OD of RG measures about 0.006" of runout. RG dropped on carrier fairly easy when square and there was no perceivable play. Pattern seems to be consistent across the whole RG. Anything to investigate more? I did not check this on the front axle...
 

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LumberjackLloyd said:
Update. Moved pinion deeper 0.005" and reinstalled carrier with 0.005" (2x 0.0025") under RG carrier bearing to simulate the same carrier preload I pulled it apart with. BL was too tight at 0.004".

Pulled carrier and took one 0.0025" shim and moved to non RG side. BL was then measured at 0.006" and the following patterns were ran. Thoughts?

It seems like sliding in the carrier is a little easier with the large outboard shims vs races directly into housing with inboard shims like the D30 I just did. Carrier went in about half way and seated fairly easy with my dead blow. I'm wondering if I really need a couple thou more of preload...

Carrier measures 0.0015" of runout at RG flange and OD of RG measures about 0.006" of runout. RG dropped on carrier fairly easy when square and there was no perceivable play. Pattern seems to be consistent across the whole RG. Anything to investigate more? I did not check this on the front axle...
Click to expand...
Button it up and call it good.
Nice work!
 
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