Hydro assist ram spec - need hydraulic wizard

frankenyoter

frankenyoter

No Rain, No Rainbow
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Mar 17, 2009
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Trying to determine which ram to purchase and focusing on what Surplus Center has to offer. I know I need a 6" stroke for a Yota axle.

I want to run a swivel on each end of the ram to keep binding down. I can't get a 3/4" rod diameter with the ram body I want, but I can get it with cross tube ends. I can get 1" or 5/8" rod diameters with swivel ends. All of these rams will have 1 1/2" bore.

I plan on drilling out the hole on a Saginaw pump.

Will 1" be sluggish? Will 5/8" be too little to hold up outside of the parking lot?

Anybody have real world experience they care to share?
 
Its not a Toyota but I'm running a surplus center 1.5x8" ram on my Dana 60 front with a 1" rod. It'll turn my 42s as fast as I can steer it with a Saginaw p pump that has been modded like the west Texas off road website shows.
 
The 1.5×6 with a unmodded saginaw pump will be more than adequate for your application. I had a 1.5×8 on the j-10 and If I couldn't turn the wheel with my palm then I better pick another line because someting is gonna snap.

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Hell, I've got a 2x8 ram from Agri Supply. Been running it for years with no problems. I just know not to be hard on the brakes and try to turn while I'm at idle. The pump doesn't like that much what with hydroboost and the hydro assist.
 
Tim C said:
Its not a Toyota but I'm running a surplus center 1.5x8" ram on my Dana 60 front with a 1" rod. It'll turn my 42s as fast as I can steer it with a Saginaw p pump that has been modded like the west Texas off road website shows.
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That is good news Tim! Running the same pump, I can't see how the steering box could make that much difference.

I don't want a sluggish ram due to more volume of fluid moving through a ram with a larger rod. All of the ones I'm looking at are 1.5x6 but have different rod diameters.

According to Tim C a 1" rod functioned perfectly running a sag pump. Unless somebody says otherwise, I'm going for it.
 
Surplus center here as well. I put my second 1.5x8x1"sc ram on a rig and don't see any reason to run any other. And yeah they can steer quick and handle great up to 80+ mph.
 
I ran the 1.5" PSC ram and box on my TJ with a stock pump for a few years (http://www.pscmotorsports.com/motor...assist-cylinders/1-5-x-8-assist-cylinder.html). It was generally fine, but there were times I wish it had more power with 38's. You could easily turn at a standstill on 38's in a parking lot. It was plenty quick enough for "normal" driving, but lacked tremendously in evasive maneuvers. I specifically remember being in the 3rd lane (far left) on Harris Blvd in Charlotte when something happened ahead, and so I quickly steered right to move to the 2nd lane (middle), but when I went to turn left to straighten back out, I couldn't do it nearly fast enough, and ended up in the 1st lane (far right). I'm pretty strong, but nowhere near strong enough to overpower hydraulic advantage with the steering wheel. Shortly thereafter, I bought a better pump to install, but never installed it. Still got it if you need to buy one, haha.
 
Matt it looks like that ram has a 5/8" rod. I would assume the lack of response was from the pump. I've already for two sag pumps already, but heck what pump do you have?

Is would still like to hear a smart hydraulic guy chime in regarding how changing a rod diameter will alter performance.
 
The bigger the piston surface area the more power the ram will exert at a given psi but it will be slower to react unless the pump can flow enough volume to fill it quickly. For example leaving out rod diameter for a moment a 1.5" ram will move faster with less force acting on the steering than a 2" ram. That's why a lot of guys run 2" rams on trailer queen crawlers they want rock moving power. Speed won't matter at 1 mph. Dual use streetable rigs usually run 1.5" ram since it responds faster to avoid road hazards at the expense of some power.

Where piston or rod diameter comes in to play is on a single ended ram its weaker in one direction than the other because the rod takes up space in the cylinder and covers some of the piston surface. That's surface area that the fluid can't push against. The rod takes up volume in the cylinder also which makes one direction turn faster than the other. The rams on surplus centers site have the max force ratings listed at the max rated psi. For example on ram may exert 4000 lbs of force extending the ram at 1500 psi but only 3000 lbs force retracting at 1500 psi. The larger the rod diameter the more that difference will be but you want a rod that won't pretzel in the rocks.

That's why most full hydro setups run a double ended ram. Since both sides of the piston have the same rod diameter there's no difference in power or speed turning either direction.

I've set up three rigs with the same ram. My 78 f150, my dads 88 bronco, and zombhntr s 76 f150 all are turning 42 with Saginaw p pumps on tons with the ram I stated I used earlier.
 
frankenyoter said:
Matt it looks like that ram has a 5/8" rod. I would assume the lack of response was from the pump. I've already for two sag pumps already, but heck what pump do you have?

Is would still like to hear a smart hydraulic guy chime in regarding how changing a rod diameter will alter performance.
Click to expand...
I believe it's this one, but I can confirm if you're interested (just the pump and maybe low pressure hose):
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/95-06-4-0-jeep-high-volume-pump-kit.html
 
Tim C said:
The larger the rod diameter the more that difference will be but you want a rod that won't pretzel in the rocks.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much why I've always ran the sc ram and tractor rams in general over a psc or the like. I've mounted the ram in front of my axles and tabbed them off to the diff covers usually. So needless to say they have been beat on and bashed around and have survived like a champ. I've seen a smaller diameter shaft bend before and leak fiercely. No good if you plan for driving home. The psi #s on any ram are kind of overkill considering the max output on most pumps are in the 1200-2000 psi range.
 
Tim C said:
The bigger the piston surface area the more power the ram will exert at a given psi but it will be slower to react unless the pump can flow enough volume to fill it quickly. For example leaving out rod diameter for a moment a 1.5" ram will move faster with less force acting on the steering than a 2" ram. That's why a lot of guys run 2" rams on trailer queen crawlers they want rock moving power. Speed won't matter at 1 mph. Dual use streetable rigs usually run 1.5" ram since it responds faster to avoid road hazards at the expense of some power.

Where piston or rod diameter comes in to play is on a single ended ram its weaker in one direction than the other because the rod takes up space in the cylinder and covers some of the piston surface. That's surface area that the fluid can't push against. The rod takes up volume in the cylinder also which makes one direction turn faster than the other. The rams on surplus centers site have the max force ratings listed at the max rated psi. For example on ram may exert 4000 lbs of force extending the ram at 1500 psi but only 3000 lbs force retracting at 1500 psi. The larger the rod diameter the more that difference will be but you want a rod that won't pretzel in the rocks.

That's why most full hydro setups run a double ended ram. Since both sides of the piston have the same rod diameter there's no difference in power or speed turning either direction.

I've set up three rigs with the same ram. My 78 f150, my dads 88 bronco, and zombhntr s 76 f150 all are turning 42 with Saginaw p pumps on tons with the ram I stated I used earlier.
Click to expand...


FTW! Well said Tim! 1" rod it is. I'm calling in my order now
 
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