I have several questions actually

Ricky B

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Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
LKN - Tha Dirty Mo (Mooresville, NC)
Got a couple questions, all towing related (kinda), ill number em, feel free to respond to whichever one you want or all, but if you dont mind number your repsonses to the corresponding question so it seems somewhat clear, thanks.

1. Ok so i can no longer even use overdrive hardly on the interstate in the Z71 empty not even towing anything, I think its due to two things: i went from a 10 bolt to a 14 bolt (extra weight) and I went from 315/75R16's to 36x12.50's (offsets the gearing more)

I have 4.88's and used to be able to set cruise control at 65/70mph and go no issues, now if i hit any type of incline it downshifts all the time and my interstate gas milage is sucking even worse than b4.

Now this leads me to my question which is kinda a fundamental towing question, pretty much i just need more power right? This would allow the engine to push the tires with less gear from the tranny right? So basically to tow you need more power?

2. Ok next question, to tow and get any kinda gas milage are you pretty much stuck getting a manual? I just hate DD'ing manuals it gets super annoying, I like automatics, but everyone says you cant tow in overdrive which automaticaly kills your hopes at gas milage while towing if your stuck runnin real high rpm's down the road which seems kinda odd to me that they even make tow rigs with the high priced deisels and whatnot that you cant even use when towing?

3. towing dilemmas and fix's - im sure you all know about the trailer "wag" that can happen if you don't have enough toung wieght or your hubs are about to fall off (ask me how i know that last one) I have had it happen thou randomly once not too long ago while i was driving and hit a real rough spot in the interstate, i know for dang sure i had enough tongue weight and my hubs were good, but it was bad and I almost lost it :confused: is the proper way to recover from the wag to accelarate kinda like you do to recover from bad death wobble?

4. Another question more chevy related: Does anyone else seem to notice how 4l60e's seem to have 5 gears? Like as im driving i clearly feel it shift/drop rpm's 4 times, almost like overdrive has two gears? I kinda just brushed it off until recently someone else mentioned the same thing to me with there chevy truck and i was like well im not totaly crazy?

5. I have a set of vortec heads but im pretty sure the tbi would say :fuck-you: if i try to run them on the Z71, is there really any logical way to get more power out of a tbi motor (other than the obvious intake/exhaust which i already have) that the tbi can handle or is it pretty much do anything to the motor and expect to pay to have your feul injection reprogrammed? (which im not gonna do)

6. I can run 65/70/75mph unloaded on the interstate fine, however when im towing and i go over 65 at all i get bad vibrations, whats up with that?

7. Does someone want to buy me a realtowrig so i dont have to worry about all this stupid crap with the Z71 that feels like its going to blow up and die any second now? Plus the damn rear main seal takes a dump wherever I park :shaking:
 
2: You can use overdrive on any transmission meant for towing like the 4L80E's, or any of the diesels.

3: Stab the trailer brakes manually and/or drop the hammer.

4: Lockup torque converter
 
1-7 get a 3/4 ton diesel truck.


I don't see the vortec heads making any real power difference.

I also don't see the extra weight of the 14 bolt making any diff. in mpg.

Most of your problems are because you have a tbi 350-not exactly a powerhouse in a new stock truck, much less one with some miles on it, bigger tires, time in the mud, etc.

Not trying to shit talk your truck, but for what you want to do, it ain't exactly ideal.
 
answer 1-7 for towing

You can spend a day polishing a turd
At the end of that day you will still have a turd.



urban dictionary
turd polishing

The act of trying to make something hopelessly weak and unattractive appear strong and appealing.
An impossible process that usually results in a larger, uglier turd.
 
lol trust me, every time i hook the truck up to somthing I know how much it sucks trying to tow with it, but oh well, not much I can do about it anytime soon so I guess I'll just keep polishing the turd for now :shaking:

Whats up with the vibrations past 65mph thou? Granted due to my lack of power i cant really tow over 65, but goin downhill obviously you can gain speed and I usually like to do that to help tackle the next hill but as soon as i get over 65 it starts almost shuddering real low almost pulsating slowly, and builds with the speed.
 
lol trust me, every time i hook the truck up to somthing I know how much it sucks trying to tow with it, but oh well, not much I can do about it anytime soon so I guess I'll just keep polishing the turd for now :shaking:
Whats up with the vibrations past 65mph thou? Granted due to my lack of power i cant really tow over 65, but goin downhill obviously you can gain speed and I usually like to do that to help tackle the next hill but as soon as i get over 65 it starts almost shuddering real low almost pulsating slowly, and builds with the speed.
Are you sure about the speeds? how did you find the speed?
Check your speed using GPS and make sure its correct first.
 
Are you sure about the speeds? how did you find the speed?
Check your speed using GPS and make sure its correct first.

Well not exactly, i have one of those speedo corrector boxes, and I kinda guestimated it so it may be off a mph or two but its pretty close, I don't have a gps or anything like that, will the exact speed really make that much of a difference in diagnosing the problem?
 
If it vibrates with the trailer connected and does not vibrate when not towing, I wonder if it could be your driveshaft angle changing when the rear suspension compresses when you have tongue weight on it?

Does it vibrate if you have a lot of weight in the bed, but no trailer connected?

How are your rear shocks?

Have you tried it with different trailers?

Does it vibrate both with your trailer empty and loaded?
 
1. Larger tires are heavier. It takes more power to turn a heavier tire regardless of the gearing correction.

2. You could buy a tow rig with a manual, and a cheap little car with an auto as a DD.

4. I am going to guess that you are feeling the torque converter locking up.

5. You could build a 383 out of your motor and install the Vortec heads. The longer stroke makes lots of torque over a wide rpm band. It would most likely require computer work though.

6. Tire/wheel out of balance? Bent rim? Driveshaft not balanced/or bent/phased correctly? U-joint angles not ideal since your truck is lifted? Did this start with the rear axle swap?

7. Deal with what you have until you finish school and start making money. Then buy a 2-5 yr old 3/4 ton diesel truck and sell the Z71.
 
For the trailer wag, a weight distributing hitch, especially with sway control, will help it to not wag in the first place. But not sure if there is a standard weight dist setup for your truck with enough drop.

Otherwise, reach down an hit the trailer brakes via the trailer brake controller. You *can* gas it to pull out of it, but a lot of times this can get you in more trouble because then you'll be going faster. Though I don't doubt there are some situations that need more throttle, my preference in most cases is to be more conservative and use the trailer brakes.
 
Got a couple questions, all towing related

1. Ok so i can no longer even use overdrive hardly on the interstate in the Z71 empty not even towing anything, I think its due to two things: i went from a 10 bolt to a 14 bolt (extra weight) and I went from 315/75R16's to 36x12.50's (offsets the gearing more)

I have 4.88's and used to be able to set cruise control at 65/70mph and go no issues, now if i hit any type of incline it downshifts all the time and my interstate gas mileage is sucking even worse than b4

Now this leads me to my question which is kinda a fundamental towing question, pretty much i just need more power right? This would allow the engine to push the tires with less gear from the tranny right? So basically to tow you need more power?:
OK to start you are trying to tow with a off road rig not a tow rig.
I know people that have a 350 in a dump truck truck and its fine.
Your problem if you motor is ok, has to do with the weight and gears, you may want to drop down in tire size to help both and that will help with brakes to. If not and you do in fact want to tow with an off road rig then go with different gears like something in the 5.30's or so

2. Ok next question, to tow and get any kinda gas milage are you pretty much stuck getting a manual? I just hate DD'ing manuals it gets super annoying, I like automatics, but everyone says you cant tow in overdrive which automaticaly kills your hopes at gas milage while towing if your stuck runnin real high rpm's down the road which seems kinda odd to me that they even make tow rigs with the high priced deisels and whatnot that you cant even use when towing?:
If you drop your tire size and change your gearing in some way and make the motor work less then your mpg will go up.
Less it works = more MPG
More it works = less MPG

3. towing dilemmas and fix's - im sure you all know about the trailer "wag" that can happen if you don't have enough toung wieght or your hubs are about to fall off (ask me how i know that last one) I have had it happen thou randomly once not too long ago while i was driving and hit a real rough spot in the interstate, i know for dang sure i had enough tongue weight and my hubs were good, but it was bad and I almost lost it :confused: is the proper way to recover from the wag to accelarate kinda like you do to recover from bad death wobble?:
Learn how to load a trailer and look over the trailer every time you stop, maintain the trailer, Load it, and know th TW, use a SCALE.
Use the hand brake on your brake box and gas to pull out if needed.

4. Another question more chevy related: Does anyone else seem to notice how 4l60e's seem to have 5 gears? Like as im driving i clearly feel it shift/drop rpm's 4 times, almost like overdrive has two gears? I kinda just brushed it off until recently someone else mentioned the same thing to me with there chevy truck and i was like well im not totaly crazy?:
Thats the lock up you feal and overdrive.

5. I have a set of vortec heads but im pretty sure the tbi would say :fuck-you: if i try to run them on the Z71, is there really any logical way to get more power out of a tbi motor (other than the obvious intake/exhaust which i already have) that the tbi can handle or is it pretty much do anything to the motor and expect to pay to have your feul injection reprogrammed? (which im not gonna do):
If your motor is running don't do anything to it, you got more to deal with, Don't polish a turd.
6. I can run 65/70/75mph unloaded on the interstate fine, however when im towing and i go over 65 at all i get bad vibrations, whats up with that?:
You springs are to soft it sounds like and you may be getting drive line wrap and drive shaft vib under load.
A lot of trucks only show it under load.
With the TW added and the load it changes the pinion and driveshaft angle just enough to start, you may also have a u-joint showing under load, that could be bad, you need to deal with this because it could just come apart if it has a bad vib on its own.

7. Does someone want to buy me a realtowrig so i dont have to worry about all this stupid crap with the Z71 that feels like its going to blow up and die any second now? Plus the damn rear main seal takes a dump wherever I park :shaking:
In stock form before you cut it up and lifted added junk and tried to make a lifted offroad monster tow rig turd it was a ok truck that would have done fine for a DD with good Gas miles and could tow most small thing and some full size rigs within reason on the correct trailer.
Now that you have added 2k lbs of junk to it and taking that much away from what you can tow you have mud truck, use it for one.



Well not exactly, i have one of those speedo corrector boxes, and I kinda guestimated it so it may be off a mph or two but its pretty close, I don't have a gps or anything like that, will the exact speed really make that much of a difference in diagnosing the problem?
For the trans you have the speed makes a difference if I remember for how it shifts and runs. If the speed is off then it will down shift early and shift gears a lot. Just not good for it if I remember, but who knows. Maybe your running 80 and thinking its 70.
 
If it vibrates with the trailer connected and does not vibrate when not towing, I wonder if it could be your driveshaft angle changing when the rear suspension compresses when you have tongue weight on it?

Thats kinda what i was thinkin too, it def feels like a driveline vibration from underneath/behind not a steering vibration

Does it vibrate if you have a lot of weight in the bed, but no trailer connected?

Not sure havnt really ever noticed it thou when the bed was loaded up but i have very little room in the bed of my truck due to the toolbox and spare tire mount, so i really cant put too much weight back there anyway

How are your rear shocks?

Wouldn't surpise me if they were done, they are def too long for the lift since i dropped the truck down but they arnt bottoming out, they are about 4 years old and it feels like im riding a brick down the road but i figured it was due to the doubled up rear spring pack and having the torsion bars cranked different from each other to make up for the rear frame being bent

Have you tried it with different trailers?

nah, might try it and see

Does it vibrate both with your trailer empty and loaded?

Nah just when im loaded down which makes me think its the driveline angle maybe



6. Tire/wheel out of balance? Bent rim? Driveshaft not balanced/or bent/phased correctly? U-joint angles not ideal since your truck is lifted? Did this start with the rear axle swap?

yea tires are not balanced very well had to put a crapload of weights to balance em zero'd em out on the machine but still had steering vibes afterward anyway - but this isnt really a steering vibe im talkin bout, like i said feels like driveline, maybe its the angle?? I do know one my rims is bent thou and it is on the back axle . . . .




I do have a set of airbags and the incab controller hopefully that fix any driveline angle changes and also help with the sway, i just have to buy some wheel spacers first thou cause the air bags don't fit untill i get some.
 
OK to start you are trying to tow with a off road rig not a tow rig.
I know people that have a 350 in a dump truck truck and its fine.
Your problem if you motor is ok, has to do with the weight and gears, you may want to drop down in tire size to help both and that will help with brakes to. If not and you do in fact want to tow with an off road rig then go with different gears like something in the 5.30's or so
If you drop your tire size and change your gearing in some way and make the motor work less then your mpg will go up.
Less it works = more MPG
More it works = less MPG
Learn how to load a trailer and look over the trailer every time you stop, maintain the trailer, Load it, and know th TW, use a SCALE.
Use the hand brake on your brake box and gas to pull out if needed.
Thats the lock up you feal and overdrive.
If your motor is running don't do anything to it, you got more to deal with, Don't polish a turd.
You springs are to soft it sounds like and you may be getting drive line wrap and drive shaft vib under load.
A lot of trucks only show it under load.
With the TW added and the load it changes the pinion and driveshaft angle just enough to start, you may also have a u-joint showing under load, that could be bad, you need to deal with this because it could just come apart if it has a bad vib on its own.
In stock form before you cut it up and lifted added junk and tried to make a lifted offroad monster tow rig turd it was a ok truck that would have done fine for a DD with good Gas miles and could tow most small thing and some full size rigs within reason on the correct trailer.
Now that you have added 2k lbs of junk to it and taking that much away from what you can tow you have mud truck, use it for one.
For the trans you have the speed makes a difference if I remember for how it shifts and runs. If the speed is off then it will down shift early and shift gears a lot. Just not good for it if I remember, but who knows. Maybe your running 80 and thinking its 70.

Yea hopefully the air bags will fix alot of that, and yea if i did it all over agian i def wouldn have lifted the truck or anything like that, when I first got it 5 years ago i just wanted the biggest tire i could fit . . . now im paying for it, lol.

I'll have to mees with the speedo thing then cause maybe that'll help some with the tranny, maybe i can get someone to drive beside me and tell me how fast there going or something.
 
As much $$$ as you have spent on all the band-aids on this turd, you could have had a decent 3/4ton truck that would do the job just fine.

The reality is, you are too worried about looking cool going down the road
Throwing all the "big" parts on, with out knowing and applying the physics of how these parts work TOGETHER, then making other concessions " I got doubled up rear springs and have adjusted the torsion bars to accomidate a bent frame" to make it work.

you keep trying to make this POS something it isn't , it's gonna kill you or some one else, god help ya if it's someone I know.

I got all the evidnce I need.
 
GM performance has a vortec upgrade for TBI engines, since you already have the heads the rest of the components shouldn't be too expensive. They're worth about 50 hp, which is a 25% gain. You'll definately be able to tell the difference
 
GM performance has a vortec upgrade for TBI engines, since you already have the heads the rest of the components shouldn't be too expensive. They're worth about 50 hp, which is a 25% gain. You'll definately be able to tell the difference

well i have a whole truck with the vortec 350, how hard/expensive would it be just to do a top end swap? Or is that a bad idea?


As much $$$ as you have spent on all the band-aids on this turd, you could have had a decent 3/4ton truck that would do the job just fine.

The reality is, you are too worried about looking cool going down the road
Throwing all the "big" parts on, with out knowing and applying the physics of how these parts work TOGETHER, then making other concessions " I got doubled up rear springs and have adjusted the torsion bars to accomidate a bent frame" to make it work.

you keep trying to make this POS something it isn't , it's gonna kill you or some one else, god help ya if it's someone I know.

I got all the evidnce I need.

I know, i just dont have the $$ to drop close to 10 grand on a new truck,

however as much as my truck sucks at towing I will have to say that i have done alot to make it safe. I have the big 14 bolt drum in the rear and trailer brakes on both axles, granted it might not like pullin the load but stopping it is something I have no problem doing. I think I have done whats necessary to make it safe, if not tell me why.
 
why do you have do drop 10k on a new truck? a decent older gas motor 3/4-1 ton can easily be had for 2-3k. even a diesel if you look hard enough. i'm sure you've spent that or more trying to make this truck work.
 
I think Bigwaylon has a 2WD dually CTD on here for $5500.

My friend also has a 1992 CTD ext cab 2WD dually for $6500.
 
As far as power go down to a stock tire rated for weight. That will give you bundles of towing power right off the bat. You may even be able to use the OD on the flats. I hope you have a tranny cooler on it too.

As far as sway, your trailer axles and springs are rated for? Are the trailer springs in good condition? Most likely culprit is the position you have it loaded. A few inches will make a world of difference.

As far as the vibes I am thinking either: strain from load with your tranny combo (torque converter) , or drive shaft angle.
 
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