I'm beginning to think ....

[Lizooki]

The impeachment was a smokescreen to cover up abolishing 2A.
If you don't believe me, what do you think Virginia?

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Not this time.....but I've had a stronger ear bent toward that whole mess the entire time.

Calmly waiting on a fearfully not so calm precept to some really nasty stuff coming down the pipe.

Want to go ahead and draw a huge trench, fill it with gas, and dare some folks to cross it lit.............well here's your match. The only thing missing is a dire economic situation to push folks over the edge. But then again the first war between states and state ideals wasn't exactly in the middle of a finacial crisis.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Not this time.....but I've had a stronger ear bent toward that whole mess the entire time.

Calmly waiting on a fearfully not so calm precept to some really nasty stuff coming down the pipe.

Want to go ahead and draw a huge trench, full it with gas, and dare some folks to cross it lit.............well here's your match. The only thing missing is a dire economic situation to push folks over the edge. But then again the first war between states and state ideals wasn't exactly in the middle of a finacial crisis.

It doesn't HAVE to be a real financial crisis. People just need to THINK we are in a financial crisis for the panic to set in and people react. Financial indicators that we see in the papers and talking heads spouting about are just the spark that starts the trend going. People with real sense look at the economy not on paper, but in the real world. Ask a realtor if the economy is good. I know three realtors and they all say the same thing. They are selling houses faster than they can write up the paperwork. Ask a contractor if the economy is good. That's only if you can get them on the phone because they are all so slammed with business right now. Ask the people waiting on line to buy the latest and greatest $1000+ smart phone "just because". That's the economy of the real world. No fancy charts or financial indicators necessary.

But yes, this is all a Whodini-esque distraction meant to take our eyes off the real change that's being set in motion. I wish I knew what it is for sure because they are pulling out all the stops to makes sure people are paying attention to impeachment and nothing else.

 

[R Q]

But then again the first war between states and state ideals wasn't exactly in the middle of a finacial crisis.

WELL... A big part of the reason for the start of the Civil War was that the South was cashing in on the lucrative cotton, sugar, and other crops the plantations were growing and the North was not getting anything from it and they wanted to add a tax to it so they could also reap the rewards. Abolishing slavery was the REASON they chose to be able to use military power to invade to try and get what they wanted. The South was not the only people to have slaves, many of the prominent northerners that fought against slavery also had slaves. Many of the signers of the Declaration had slaves at some point.
It's always smoke and mirrors, even back then...

 

[Ron]

WELL... A big part of the reason for the start of the Civil War was that the South was cashing in on the lucrative cotton, sugar, and other crops the plantations were growing and the North was not getting anything from it and they wanted to add a tax to it so they could also reap the rewards. Abolishing slavery was the REASON they chose to be able to use military power to invade to try and get what they wanted. The South was not the only people to have slaves, many of the prominent northerners that fought against slavery also had slaves. Many of the signers of the Declaration had slaves at some point.
It's always smoke and mirrors, even back then...

Heck Lincoln had slaves when he signed the EP..even after. The EP only freed southern slaves .

You are hitting on the real interesting politics of the “war of Northern aggression” ...people who say “the war wasn’t about slavery “ are fundamentally wrong.
It clearly was, just to read the articles of the confederacy.
But the accurate statement was, the abolition of slavery was never (entirely) about human rights. Lots of folks, specifically northern republicans (like Lincoln) weaponized feigned moral superiority while still privately (and many times publicly as well) holding beliefs of racial inferiority.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Well aware of the Economic forces involved with real and perceived economy strengths...also the civil war era gross domestic products of the south, manufacturing North and related taxes debates.

My comment was more in tune with the modern view of purse strings, financial freedoms, and representation. In my heart a lot of our citizens feel content just because of our material wealth. A big soap box I could get on because of our poorest folk being bought with social programs run amuck, funded by a shrinking bust your ass middle class, governed by the disconnected lobby interest rich.

Those strings are what haven't been pulled taught enough.....However the few of us fundamental die hards in respect to personal Liberties and Freedoms represented and guarded by 2A, we are slowly being tested.

Bravado, demonstration, and social flexing is a far cry from looking at your fire arm collection and making the decision to exercise the ability to kill another human. Many may beat the drum, few will sacrifice to dance the dance.

And I say exercise the ability because with or without a fire arm any human can choose to kill another. Some do without principle or remorse. For the populace as a whole that decision want come easily without a broader enveloped cause.

The personal fear I have is the loss of freedom, the esculation of taxation, and the increase of class socialism happening one concious desicion at a time. The choice of being moral over an act of evil. The gun is that line for many. And many will choose in that instant to be moral, "thou shalt not kill".

 

[49willys]

Wow, "pass me the jaw bone of an ass"

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

The impeachment was a smokescreen to cover up abolishing 2A.
If you don't believe me, what do you think Virginia?

Didn't mean to stiffle your inquiry with my life of the party post.


For the rest who may want to discuss.


On the absolute lighter side. If it would spark earnest steps toward education, and smarter use of current legislation by all means.
The fact remains that a great many young up and coming leaders and voter numbers lean more and more toward less conservative views.
Our "educated class" is slowly but surely becoming the indoctrinated and very vocal. Fed bits and pieces from socialist minded groups or similar constructed viewpoints they are Consistently looking for, voting for, and expecting legislation to take care of needs. Needs usually met by a free market economy. They wish to replace it by a Government led policy agenda.
Health care, social programs, insurance, education and so forth are all being framed as "Rights". Rights that in the eyes of many should be fully funded by our Government.


Well that takes huge Government, and large taxation. What happens when Patriots get pulled to taught by plundering Officials......Tea Parties.
How do you prevent a large populace that disagrees with greater taxation? Disarm them. Completely. Trade small rights for bigger wrongs. Do you want to work and keep 50 percent of your wages? Do you want to support a growing class that desires not to support itself? Do you want less opportunity for a greater Government crutch?

As to the "Programs, Cost, and Availability"? Shrink the lobbiest, private pocket padding, deregulate the avenues preventing small business start ups, and basically kill monopolies hiding behind corporate banners.
Make the field level by allowing price, product, quality, and customer preference dictate success. Remember Obamma Care? How's those choices? How's that service? Insurance being a great example of the drive behind service cost and the ability to choose whom renders said service. All of this would require Big Brother funded Capital Hill to take many steps back.

At the very least all this keeps the eyes of many off anything of tangible value to the American public. Like the bill that just went through the Senate. The Omnibus Bill it has been termed.

I'm not eloquent, a economics, or political major. But I do see a big picture full of to much Government influence.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

Didn't mean to stiffle your inquiry with my life of the party post.


For the rest who may want to discuss.


On the absolute lighter side. If it would spark earnest steps toward education, and smarter use of current legislation by all means.
The fact remains that a great many young up and coming leaders and voter numbers lean more and more toward less conservative views.
Our "educated class" is slowly but surely becoming the indoctrinated and very vocal. Fed bits and pieces from socialist minded groups or similar constructed viewpoints they are Consistently looking for, voting for, and expecting legislation to take care of needs. Needs usually met by a free market economy. They wish to replace it by a Government led policy agenda.
Health care, social programs, insurance, education and so forth are all being framed as "Rights". Rights that in the eyes of many should be fully funded by our Government.


Well that takes huge Government, and large taxation. What happens when Patriots get pulled to taught by plundering Officials......Tea Parties.
How do you prevent a large populace that disagrees with greater taxation? Disarm them. Completely. Trade small rights for bigger wrongs. Do you want to work and keep 50 percent of your wages? Do you want to support a growing class that desires not to support itself? Do you want less opportunity for a greater Government crutch?

As to the "Programs, Cost, and Availability"? Shrink the lobbiest, private pocket padding, deregulate the avenues preventing small business start ups, and basically kill monopolies hiding behind corporate banners.
Make the field level by allowing price, product, quality, and customer preference dictate success. Remember Obamma Care? How's those choices? How's that service? Insurance being a great example of the drive behind service cost and the ability to choose whom renders said service. All of this would require Big Brother funded Capital Hill to take many steps back.

At the very least all this keeps the eyes of many off anything of tangible value to the American public. Like the bill that just went through the Senate. The Omnibus Bill it has been termed.

I'm not eloquent, a economics, or political major. But I do see a big picture full of to much Government influence.

So, I think education centers and the educated class have been bastions of socialist ideology for many years. The same goes for the entertainment world. The issue is that we are listening to these people more and more instead of listening to the practical and realistic members of our society who understand that needs are not rights.

Needs drive people to work, achieve, and contribute. If you do not or have not contributed to society, you do not have the right to force others to pay for services even if they are necessary for your survival.

I do agree that healthcare being provided by insurance is a fallacy. Insurance is something you have in case something happens. Healthcare happens no matter what. It may be more or less severe. But you will need healthcare at some point. So, it is a group service agreement. This may seem like semantics. But it's important for people to realize this and then focus on maximizing the costs and expectations of there memberships in a service agreement.

As for increasing productivity by reducing red tape, that is the Holy Grail of funding strategies. Most of the time, you end up trading one inefficient process for another one. It can work, but most people to claim success in this endeavor only manage to shortcut redundant (checks and balances) systems or trade short term gains at the expense of long term maintenance and oversight.

After all that rambling, I do think we should be very cautious of giving government more power to oversee and regulate our daily lives. But I don't think that people who grow up in cities (dependent on shared services) and then learn socialist utopian ideology will wake up before it is too late.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

So, I think education centers and the educated class have been bastions of socialist ideology for many years. The same goes for the entertainment world. The issue is that we are listening to these people more and more instead of listening to the practical and realistic members of our society who understand that needs are not rights.

Needs drive people to work, achieve, and contribute. If you do not or have not contributed to society, you do not have the right to force others to pay for services even if they are necessary for your survival.

I do agree that healthcare being provided by insurance is a fallacy. Insurance is something you have in case something happens. Healthcare happens no matter what. It may be more or less severe. But you will need healthcare at some point. So, it is a group service agreement. This may seem like semantics. But it's important for people to realize this and then focus on maximizing the costs and expectations of there memberships in a service agreement.

As for increasing productivity by reducing red tape, that is the Holy Grail of funding strategies. Most of the time, you end up trading one inefficient process for another one. It can work, but most people to claim success in this endeavor only manage to shortcut redundant (checks and balances) systems or trade short term gains at the expense of long term maintenance and oversight.

After all that rambling, I do think we should be very cautious of giving government more power to oversee and regulate our daily lives. But I don't think that people who grow up in cities (dependent on shared services) and then learn socialist utopian ideology will wake up before it is too late.

Well said. I'm glad you mentioned cities. Cities being what they are seem to skew certain values in a great many things. Least of these are the system and Availability of everyday comodities. Many such things seem to just suddenly be, rather than the systems in place that makes them available. To some it's entirely far fetched for us to understand the absolute lack of knowledge on simple matters such as food supply.
That's a fairly microscopic example but I can't help but think that huge amounts of populace choosing to cram in a few square miles greatly changes the perception of certain values and related services. At the very least priorities change based on the very near crisis presented to them in that aproximate location. IE homelessness, housing, transportation, and the list continues.
Its no wonder great divisions can be drawn simply by population density and rural communities. Lifestyle and views of lifestyle and the combined perceived barriers and freedoms greatly differ.

Look at the New World history vs. The Old World of European settled for centuries life style. A well read person who has looked at the statements of earlier settlers across this nation see the expressed new found perception of open growth and freedoms therein. These are some of the core beliefs and freedoms that helped birth our unique perceptions of liberty. Liberty that many think has become outdated for our growing density of populace. Its all realitive in our forming. Some choose to ignore or not educate themselves on a broader understanding.
My belief is at the very core of each person is a developed sense of Freedom, Liberty, expectation of others and Government. All social and econcomic factors play into this. Call it the fabric of America, that fabric and the threads woven have change due to the fiber differences in the growth nurtured by its foundation.

Our foundation has shifted. New roots are taking hold. We haven't been carefull about what we are feeding or planting.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

Well said. I'm glad you mentioned cities. Cities being what they are seem to skew certain values in a great many things. Least of these are the system and Availability of everyday comodities. Many such things seem to just suddenly be, rather than the systems in place that makes them available. To some it's entirely far fetched for us to understand the absolute lack of knowledge on simple matters such as food supply.
That's a fairly microscopic example but I can't help but think that huge amounts of populace choosing to cram in a few square miles greatly changes the perception of certain values and related services. At the very least priorities change based on the very near crisis presented to them in that aproximate location. IE homelessness, housing, transportation, and the list continues.
Its no wonder great divisions can be drawn simply by population density and rural communities. Lifestyle and views of lifestyle and the combined perceived barriers and freedoms greatly differ.

Look at the New World history vs. The Old World of European settled for centuries life style. A well read person who has looked at the statements of earlier settlers across this nation see the expressed new found perception of open growth and freedoms therein. These are some of the core beliefs and freedoms that helped birth our unique perceptions of liberty. Liberty that many think has become outdated for our growing density of populace. Its all realitive in our forming. Some choose to ignore or not educate themselves on a broader understanding.
My belief is at the very core of each person is a developed sense of Freedom, Liberty, expectation of others and Government. All social and econcomic factors play into this. Call it the fabric of America, that fabric and the threads woven have change due to the fiber differences in the growth nurtured by its foundation.

Our foundation has shifted. New roots are taking hold. We haven't been carefull about what we are feeding or planting.

The example you gave actually isn't microscopic. It's been used in political and social science books on many occasions. I suck at citations. So, I can't give you the reference books. But politically, people who depend on communal services and live in tighter quarters establish rules, regulations, and hierarchies to live peacefully in such places. Personal freedoms are typically not valued over the social order. It makes absolute sense. This perpetual cycle of developing urban centers and imposing social will on individuals not only drove the push into the New World, but American Western expansion during the 19th century.

I think the disconnect that urbanized people have regarding something like how food gets to their table is a big part of the disconnect in our society. On the flip side, I think that a lot of us who claim to be rural do not understand the backbone of industrialization and infrastructure that is present that makes our spread a workable and livable place by modern standards.

Here's another useless factoid, the simple disconnect in food production vs. food consumption between the working and social classes is why we call an animal a 'cow' but we eat 'beef.' After the French speaking Normans conquered England the German speaking Saxans were field workers on the land and the Normans were higher class in the townships. The German word for a bovine is 'Kuh.' The French word for the meat is 'Boeuf.' Because the German speakers were farming it and the French speakers were eating it, the English language adapted accordingly.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

Back to the original question from @Lizooki I don't think the current impeachment circus is a federal smoke screen for state attacks on the 2A.

The purpose is far simpler. The democrats in Congress have effectively paralyzed both houses of the legislature with this political show. They will try to hold this paralyzed state through the last year of the Trump administration to prevent any further conservative "damage" done to progressive actions enacted under Obama.

The secondary effort is to portray President Trump as the Gangster-in-Chief ahead of the next election cycle.

The cool thing is they are doing it under the illusion of righteous Civic duty vs. looking like they are obstructing the governmental system.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Back to the original question from @Lizooki I don't think the current impeachment circus is a federal smoke screen for state attacks on the 2A.

The purpose is far simpler. The democrats in Congress have effectively paralyzed both houses of the legislature with this political show. They will try to hold this paralyzed state through the last year of the Trump administration to prevent any further conservative "damage" done to progressive actions enacted under Obama.

The secondary effort is to portray President Trump as the Gangster-in-Chief ahead of the next election cycle.

The cool thing is they are doing it under the illusion of righteous Civic duty vs. looking like they are obstructing the governmental system.

I gotta hand it to Trey Gowdy. He doesn't usually say stuff that I agree with, but this time I think he nailed it.


“If he [Trump] really is an existential threat to the republic, if he really has committed conduct that should result in his removal from office, then why would you not go ahead and send it on to the Senate?”