it wont start..arrrggghhhh

catfish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Location
asheboro
i have a 76 cherokee that wont turn over and im about to spread napalm all over it to get some kind of fire.
i charged the battery and also tried to jump it off. nothing!
then i took the starter to a local parts house and tested it! works good at their place...yay.
i bought a new solenoid, and a few other parts for a quick tune-up for when it was running. after re-installing the starter, all i got was a hummmmmmm at the solenoid i just replaced. i tested all the wires and grounds. i took off the ground from the block and any other grounds and cleaned them for better connection.(just in case. couldnt hurt)
now i got the same thing..a hummm and a click.
wires to the starter are fine making good connection. battery terminals are clean and posts are tight. the only other wires that go to that area is the small one that clips onto the front of the solenoid and goes into a box on the firewall just above the solenoid. im not sure the name of that box, but its the only other thing that directly affects the starter.
what is the name of that box?? i gotta replace it anyway just to be sure.
any help is appreciated. any direct assistance would be helpful also if you wanna come to asheboro. ill buy the beer and maybe even feed you a decent meal
 
Jump the solenoid and see what happens. It is not unheard of to get a bum solenoid from the parts store.

But check out this page for any reference including the wiring diagrams and the TSM for your chero-

http://www.oljeep.com/
 
i jumped the solenoid earlier. i even put jumper cables from my truck to the starter. i dont think i had a good enuf ground for that though.
i took all grounding apart and cleaned and scraped them. i checked all wires to and from starter, battery, everywhere i can think of. i checked for continuity to look for breaks in the wires and they all seemed to check out for that.
as far as the solenoid is concerned, there is fire going to the solenoid and fire coming out of it.
im f@#king lost
 
i found the name of the box. its the ignition control module. im gonna try and replace that next. i hope that could be the cause of the problem. if not, im f@#ked again
 
My 82 Toy had the same problem one time and it turned out in the middle of the ground cable there was a nick in the insulation. I cut it back with a pocket knife and there was nothing but a green lump of corroded crap. I replaced the cable she fired right up.
 
When you crank are you getting voltage to the starter........ Yes then Look for a voltage drop. on battery terminals first when you try to crank what is the volts at the battery. then leave your ground on the battery. and put your positve on the starter stud not the cable. and have assitant crank is their a voltage drop at the starter. then put your negative at your main ground point on the block and the starter post do you have a voltage drop. voltage drop would be below 10 volts when trying to start. bypass soleniod and soleniod wiring run hot directly to starter put it on a push button switch or just use your hand to touch it to starter if it don't turnover your ground is no good. which you should have already determined by voltage drop testing. is starter clicking ie kicking out, spin motor over with breaker bar, maybe you motor is locked up and starting sytem is fine. Don't put the ingnition module on it, im not real familiar with this system and frnakly i don't even know what kind of vehicle this is but me thinks ignition module controls spark not crank.
 
catfish said:
i jumped the solenoid earlier. i even put jumper cables from my truck to the starter. i dont think i had a good enuf ground for that though.
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If you put the cables right on the starter, it should spin. I had a starter on my J truck that would spin during a bench test, but was not strong enough to turn the motor over and I ended up replacing the starter. One of the McParts stores said my starter was fine, but a rewinding shop said it was grounded out. I bought a new one and everything was good after that.

What exactly is it doing now? Starter not spinning at all when you hit the key?
 
Cperry said:
Don't put the ingnition module on it, im not real familiar with this system and frnakly i don't even know what kind of vehicle this is but me thinks ignition module controls spark not crank.
Click to expand...
Yup, the module won't have anything to do with it not cranking.
 
good to know guys. guess ill take the easy route first and try a new starter. if its not that, ill either take it back or keep it and test for the voltage drop. hell i might even just go ahead and replace all the cables to and from the battery, not gonna hurt and wont cost TOO much.
 
Yeah, I would mark all of the cables and take them off and go to wally world or where ever and get all new ones.
 
Outside the box a bit with this...

When is the last time it did crank and run.
If its been a long time or never in your posession you may have a seized motor and the starter is incapable of turning the motor over and justbogged down.

To check put a socket on the crank pulley and a breaker bar if you can turn her over easy ten thats not the problem.

Of course if it was running fine and you parked it and now it wont then obviously this is irrelevant
 
SkyHiK5 said:
Outside the box a bit with this...
When is the last time it did crank and run.
If its been a long time or never in your posession you may have a seized motor and the starter is incapable of turning the motor over and justbogged down.
To check put a socket on the crank pulley and a breaker bar if you can turn her over easy ten thats not the problem.
Of course if it was running fine and you parked it and now it wont then obviously this is irrelevant
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ok, here we go. i got the new starter. installed it. bought all new wires for the battery starter and ground and installed them. went to start and nothing. jumped to my truck for extra power.......SHE TURNED OVER...WOOHOO!!! went to try again and again. and she turned over slowly. every time i went to start her, my pick up i jumpd her off of wanted to die. guess it was trying to pull too much from it. suddenly the battery terminals on the jeep started to smoke and that was all she wrote. do i need another battery? is there something deeper involved? i did have it turning over. thats better than before, but i want her running.
can i get some advice here
 
swap out the battery with one you know is good. I would clean all the cable attachment points a well again and make darn sure the grounds are making ground. Sure sounds like a ground problem
 
Starter is drawing a whole lot of amps, as I and SkyhiK5 suggested may want to check condition of motor sounds like the motr may be partially siezed. Old starter and cables just would not budge it
 
i really dont think the motor is seized. when i did get it to turn over, it sounded just like it would if it had a very weak battery. i sure hope its not seized. it had been parked for a few years but it was started repeatedly to keep the juices flowing. last time it was started was about 3 months ago.
i also noticed that when i turned the key, after i quit trying to start, the starter kept trying to turn over. it was only for a couple of seconds, but may be of help to you guys troubleshooting
 
Wow. If you would have heard that starter on the 5.9 swap we did. It sounds alot like that engine could have bad rod bearing or something with the rotating assembly. The starter trying to spin after you've tried cranking it so many times sounds like you got the solenoid hot and its sticking. Check the bottom end of your engine if starter is good.
 
im gonna try the battery idea before i dive into the bottom end idea. if the engine is "kaplooooey" ill just tear the whole thing out and put in something else
 
right on, Im not saying dont try it. I hope the engine isnt bad either. But sometimes it happens. Turn the engine with a socket and ratchet and see if it is real hard to turn. If it is. NOT GOOD. It should turn fairly easy with a little more force when pistons reach TDC and the valves are closed or close to doing so. then turn freely agian between strokes.
 
i can grab the fan blade and turn it. it turns just like you describe. it is a little tough though. i was hoping it was cause it was sitting and no oil in the cylinders. man i dont wanna do a rebuild or swap right now. i dont the money for that
 
here's the formula. 1.Good Ground(s) + 2. Good Solenoid + 3. Good Starter + 4. Proper connections(good cables,wires and terminals). + 5. 12v (with no short to ground or power) +
6. rotating assembly in good condition (includes flywheel or flexplate)and valves not bent = Nice smooth turning engine.

Of course add fuel, fire, air, timing. Engine goes Vroommmm......
 
davidselite737 said:
here's the formula. 1.Good Ground(s) + 2. Good Solenoid + 3. Good Starter + 4. Proper connections(good cables,wires and terminals). + 5. 12v (with no short to ground or power) +
6. rotating assembly in good condition (includes flywheel or flexplate)and valves not bent = Nice smooth turning engine.
Of course add fuel, fire, air, timing. Engine goes Vroommmm......
Click to expand...

i think im gonna just blow the thing up and see if it starts. i put a battery that i thought to be good in it today and made sure it charged up. tried starting and there was nothing. put truck up to it again, and i could weld with it again. this time it sparked at my truck terminals and smoking at the terminals of the jeep. the battery i put in was in my building and was good when i put it there. it may have gone bad. i just dont get it. short of buying a new battery, im lost. i need some professional help. wanna make a trip to asheboro????:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
ok, if you put a new startes, solenoid, and cables on it you should be good, as you have also cleaned the grounds. im thinking its the battery. just go buy one, they aint that bad, i mean no optima or anything. but it could be just a little snug after sitting there. if nothing else, take the plugs out and turn it over a little to get the oil movin, and you could squirt a little marvel mystery oil in the cylinders too. i would probably go ahead and get the new battery because it dont take much for a battery to develop an internal short. i had the same thing you're going through happen to me.... turned out to be the battery, plenty of voltage, just not enough amps!!! hope this helps!
 
thanks gmc. i guess ill just bite the bullet and buy a battery. ill report back tomorrow with hopefully good news.
 
catfish said:
thanks gmc. i guess ill just bite the bullet and buy a battery. ill report back tomorrow with hopefully good news.
Click to expand...

i went out today and bought the duralast gold. put her in and....ITS ALIVE>>>ITS ALIVE>>>ITS ALIVE >>>HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA.
spray a little starter fluid in the throat and she fired right up.
im as tickled as a two peckered puppy.
i couldnt have done it without all your advice. thanks a lot guys.
 
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