It's only 0.003", right?

Jody Treadway

Croc wearing fool
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Mar 20, 2005
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Re-geared a JK yesterday evening. Nothing fancy, 4.56 Motive gears to help it push 35" BFGs down the road. But I did encounter something worth sharing (and erasing the whole "there's no tech" on here anymore).

Here is the first pattern (coast side). Centered, a little tight at 0.005" backlash, and a broad contact patch. The issue is the backlash. 5 thou is too little clearance and will generate excessive heat during break in as well as while driving. The other thing is the pattern doesn't really gradually develop. It's kinda like "Boom, in yo face" like a @McCracken wise crack on @Loganwayne.
Ideally, you want a pattern that develops gradually and rolls into a wide patch and then gradually dissipates. This will allow a smooth break in and prolong gear life. Picture a cam lobe that gradually opens and closes a valve as opposed to a squared off lobe that harshly does so. You want that smooth transition if at all possible.
Would this pattern be acceptable (assuming BL was in spec)? Yes it would. But it can be better...
IMG_20200609_180109288.jpg

I removed the carrier and mearured the shim pack. Pass side was 0.118" and driver's side was 0.137". Carrier preload was good, so i knew my overall shim thickness was dead nuts. Just need to move some from side to side. I Knew I needed more backlash, so I made a new stack and moved 0.008" from the pass side to the driver. New shim thickness turned out to be 0.110" and 0.145". This pushed the ring gear away from the pinion just a hair.


Reinstalled the carrier and measured backlash. It was now 0.008", perfect. Ran a pattern and you can see the results. It changed significantly. The pattern now rolls smoothly at the start into a broad patch that transitions to a taper at the opposite end. The depth remains unchanged, just how it actually contacts changed.
IMG_20200609_182321362.jpg


What does this mean? It means that taking the extra 10 minutes to fine tune the pattern will give longer gear life, less heat, less noise and basically erase any chance at a failure.
 
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So as I was reading this and I was like what is backlash? Google to the rescue. So it's the space between the two gear teeth on the back side of where they contact?
 
So as I was reading this and I was like what is backlash? Google to the rescue. So it's the space between the two gear teeth on the back side of where they contact?
Google is correct. Backlash is the clearance between the ring and pinion. You can feel it by rocking the carrier into and away from the pinion. It is measured with a dial indicator. Sometimes it is measured with a calibrated hand/eye/ear.
Can you feel it? Yup
Can you hear it? Yup
Can you see it? Nope
Button it up. She good.
 
the piece i find interesting is that moving 0.008" of shim resulted in 0.003" of change.

that would mean that the rest went into carrier bearing preload?
Preload stayed the same. +8 on one side and -8 on the other. The change is not equal because of the angle of the gear teeth and alignment of the pinion relative to the centerline of the ring gear. It will be different between different axles, and even a little bit within different ratios on the same axle. I've always heard a rule of thumb that 0.010" carrier shift gave you about 0.007" backlash shift, but that never matched up with my experience.
 
Preload stayed the same. +8 on one side and -8 on the other. The change is not equal because of the angle of the gear teeth and alignment of the pinion relative to the centerline of the ring gear. It will be different between different axles, and even a little bit within different ratios on the same axle. I've always heard a rule of thumb that 0.010" carrier shift gave you about 0.007" backlash shift, but that never matched up with my experience.

If I'm thinking about that correctly, it should be non-linear because of the helical/curved pinion geometry and curved ring teeth, so there shouldn't be a fixed ratio of distance:distance. It's a good 3-dimensional brain twister though.

Basically, you're changing the distance between 2 different parts that both have angles and 3D curves, so it's complicated. :D
 
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Preload stayed the same. +8 on one side and -8 on the other. The change is not equal because of the angle of the gear teeth and alignment of the pinion relative to the centerline of the ring gear. It will be different between different axles, and even a little bit within different ratios on the same axle. I've always heard a rule of thumb that 0.010" carrier shift gave you about 0.007" backlash shift, but that never matched up with my experience.

What he's trying to say is Angle of the Dangle and such.
 
If I'm thinking about that correctly, it should be non-linear because of the helical/curved pinion geometry and curved ring teeth, so there shouldn't be a fixed ratio of distance:distance. It's a good 3-dimensional brain twister though.

Basically, you're changing the distance between 2 different parts that both have angles and 3D curves, so it's complicated. :D
Correct. So long as pinion depth isn't changed, its just the two curved surfaces with different angles and offset axes, plus the pressure face angle of the ring gear relative to the helix angle of the pinion gear. Pretty straightforward.
 
Am I the only one that has a dilemma about regearing and NOT putting in some sort of traction aid? It just seems....wrong. You're already there. Might as well, right? I guess that's why two of my trucks have lockers front and rear. Do they reallllly need it. No, but, I have them!
 
Am I the only one that has a dilemma about regearing and NOT putting in some sort of traction aid? It just seems....wrong. You're already there. Might as well, right? I guess that's why two of my trucks have lockers front and rear. Do they reallllly need it. No, but, I have them!

I thought about putting a limited slip in the front of the tow rig when it was regeared, but I also thought about putting in new u joints, bearings, and ball joints too because it's right there! But then my budget and my wants had a heart to heart conversation where my budget pretty much told my wants to STFU.

Duane
 
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