Jeep JK guys: River Raider Skids

[GotLime?]

I purchased a set of brand new, steel River Raider skids for my Jeep late last year. I installed them at the end of January. I've had the Jeep out at a local place we wheeel but never really pushed it that hard and got on the skids.
Last weekend we took 6 rigs out to Black Mountain in Harlan, KY. I wheeled Saturday in stuff like this:

I certainly wasn't taking it easy, but I wouldn't describe myself as someone who is hard on their equipment either.
We get back to the house we rented Saturday evening and I crawl under to do an inspection. Everything was dirty but otherwise appeared to be fine.
Sunday, we had a smaller group that went out and did some things like this (for those of you that know Harlan, we did Railbed and Fish Fossil. No red trails)

I get back Sunday evening and crawl under the Jeep to find this:

I was pretty shocked to see this. Obviously, I got on the skids, but I didn't recall any "big" hits or anything that should have done that kind of damage. I asked the 2 guys I was riding with and neither of them could recall anything memorable either.
I got home, took the pics and sent a link of the gallery to River Raider.
My email to them:
Good morning.
First, I was down at Jeep Beach and it was good meeting some of your folks and seeing your builds in person. Nice work!
I installed your full skid system (steel) for the JKU a few months back. last weekend was the first time I really got to use them. I'm not sure what to say here. The TC case skid bent significantly. I understand these are skid plates and they're not indestructible, but I don't wheel that hard and this was the first time I'd had them on any rocks. Now I have a skid touching my transfer case and I'm not sure what to do.
I was in Harlan, KY over the weekend. I'm not into body damage, so I didn't do any of the harder trails like Mason jar or Your Turn or any of that stuff. Trails like Fish Fossil and Railbed are more my speed.
Here are the pics of the bent skid. Pardon how dirty the Jeep is. I got back Monday and it's been raining here in NC. I just rinsed it off and took the pics. If there are any other pics you need or want, let me know.
I got a response the same day:
Chris,

I am glad to hear that you got to check out some of our builds and we had a chance to talk!

It was a good thing you had our transfer case skid bolted to your undercarriage because it certainly did its job! From looking at the amount of deflection in the skid, and especially along the lateral support brace, I can tell that with out it you would be looking at cracked t-case housing at the very least!

There are a couple of options regarding your skid:

First you can take your transfer case skid off and using a sledge hammer, "massage" it back to its original form. Our skids are made from 3/16" cold rolled steel and can take a beating.

If you are concerned with the structural integrity of the skid you can always give us a call or check out our web site and order another one. If you call into our office and mention this email, I can get you 15% off.

If you need anything else please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,
My reply:
Thanks for the quick repsonse xxx.

Just to clarify. This skid didn't take any "big" hits. I know it's hard to define "big" but as i said, I wouldn't describe myself as aggressive when I'm wheeling. I don't even know when I did this. I never hit something and thought to myself "Wow! that was quite a hit!" or "I should get out and make sure everything is okay". I wheeled Saturday and Sunday. Sunday evening I crawled under the Jeep to check things out and found this damage. Like I said, I'm not even sure when it happened.

You don't think this is unusual? Should I expect to have to remove my skids and straighten them often? How often do you see skids like this?

Thanks,
Chris
And River Raider's response:
Chris,

Under that circumstance, I would say it is extremely unusual.

The only way our skid would have deformed like that is when the full weight of the vehicle was upon it. When that happens, the 3/16" steel will reluctantly give way.

Looking at the pictures, it appears as though the Jeep landed on top of a rock then slid off.

The only other thing I can think of is who else drove this?!

In all seriousness though that could not have happened without you noticing...

You won't have to take your skids off after every time you go wheeling, but when you run them through a ringer you will. Like I said earlier this is not common at all.
And my reply:
Thanks for getting back to me xxx. Maybe this was just a fluke but either way I'm disappointed. I spent a bunch of money on these skids. Having to take them off and have them repaired/improved after the first use was definitely not what I was expecting.

I'm not going to go out and bad mouth River Raider, but am I going to let the vendor I bought them through know about this as well as buddies who were looking for skids.
So that's where we stand.
I'm not saying River Raider did anything wrong. They have no idea what I did to the skid. They weren't out there. Maybe my expectations of a skid plates capabilities were not in line. I just don't want other folks to have the same disappointment I did. I thought about my skid purchase a long time and did a ton of research. River Raider had/has a great reputation. I take mine out for what I would call an average weekend of wheeling and I now have to remove my TC skid and see if I can find someone to repair/reinforce it.
I wouldn't describe myself as naive, but I've never seen a pic of a RR skid with damage like this. I was hoping they would say "Tell us how you did this. Send us the skid and any pics you have of the trip. We want this one back so we can take a look at it and see if we can improve the product. We'll get a new one out to you ASAP. Sorry for the inconvenience."
LIke I said, RR didn't do anything wrong, but they had the chance to exceed my expectations and they didn't. I know 2 guys I wheel with were looking at skids in the next few months and RR is now off their list.

 

[hscrugby]

Looks to me like you got the "just right" hit that bends the crap out of something.
But I know I've bent things worse than that without noticing, and had bone jarring, teeth rattling hits that I swore broke everything and then I get out and no damage at all.
I think it's closer to the saying "pay to play" that applies here. Maybe they could have done a little better on customer support, but I can't think of any company that would replace it no questions asked. Skids are meant to get hit, and if they get hit, they bend, they keep something more expensive/critical from taking that hit.
Good luck, but I'd try and bang it back flat, of course if it's super easy to bend, THEN you have a problem, and I'd contact them again. but I bet you can wail on that thing and it won't bend much at all.

 

[levellinebrad]

Damn Chris. I am still running stock skids on mine and I have for dang sure had all the weight of the jeep on it and it's not that tweaked. I have seen you wheel and I can't believe that you bent that skid. Rail bed has some big rock on it but that would have had to take a hell of sudden impact which I am sure you would have noticed. And knowing how honest you are, I am sure you would have fessed up had that been the case. You definitely have to pay to play but for what those skids cost, I would have expected a little more than what RR said. I would get somebody on the phone Monday morning and talk to a person. Probably won't do much good but worth a shot.

 

[XJfreakHO]

You had all the weight of the vehicle on that skid in another picture, the product did its job, either pull it off or beat it back into shape or live with it, if you wanted it indestructable there are plenty vendors on here who will gladly make you a skid out of the thickest material you would like, or out of that heavy duty plastic I keep hearing so much about.

 

[250krawler]

I agree he hit something Just right but as far as, "oh well it did its job" I don't agree. A skid plate should be able to stand up to all of the weight of the vehicle and a nice slam with out worry. And it should be able to do it multiple times. Whats going to happen when he hits something just right again? And even if he does get it bent back I doubt it will ever be as strong as new but maybe some heavy bracing and layering on the top side. I think your SOL with that company and your best bet would be to bend it back as good as you can and sell it or scrap it and start from new but since you dropped so much on it maybe try the bracing thing if you get it bent back and replace later if it happens again.

 

[Pinkston]

I would by that skid plate from them if it was me. Looks like it saved you from any major damage. Its very possible you sat the belly on something, maybe had 2k lbs sitting on the skid plate, why wouldnt it bend? From their stand point they cant just replace everything or sell it for cost that gets damaged wheeling or they would be out of business. If they replace yours then would they also have to replace one that has been beat to death after a summer of wheeling?

 

[CThurmond]

I thought that the point of repkacing a stock skid especially transfer case was so if you took a heavy hit that the new HD steel skid was suppose to hold the weight of the vehicle, my stock tj skid held up with no problem and it took some major hits (it had its dents but not a damn crease), sounds like a POS product and company ,

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

 

[ord.sgt.26NC]

ain't 3/16ths a tad thin for something that weighs in excess of 4,000 pounds?The stock skid on my Willys was just a little thinner than that and as little as Nellie weighs,I rolled that skid plate like a piece of aluminum foil.I believe you might have hit a rock with a more glancing blow while going foreward and the force would have transfered along the frame moreso than a jaring hit straight down.I fixed my skid issues by hammering out the original skid and then plating the bottom with a flat piece if 3/8ths.

 

[MarsFab]

This is a tough situation. I'd say that 3/16 is a little thin, especially in an application where its basically a flat plate with a few ribs on the top side. You'd be better of to have sacrificed 1.5" of ground clearance to have a broken edge all the way around to actually make it like a pan then add a few ribs that run side to side inside it. A lot of times companies like that are looking more at profit margin vs. quality. 3/16 is cheaper than 1/4 by a good bit and it's cheaper for you to have shipped which makes it easier for them to sell. I'm not saying it's a bad product just that it's probably built to sell more than it's built to work, and will probably do just that.

If I were them I'd have a hard time wanting to replace it for you based on the information you've posted here. It isn't necessessarily a great design and they probably know that. They also probably know pretty well what it will actually take to bend it. I'm not trying to discredit your story, but in the pictures you posted you can actually see a white spot right in the middle of the bent area. That typically is a tell tale sign of an impact with a rock or at least where you dragged really hard on a rock. Then at the very back lip of the pan it looks like you can actually see that the edge of the metal is deformed around that same rock, almost like it scraped away metal. That takes pretty substantial force. You may not have felt it, but it's pretty obvious that it did happen some time or another. My guess would be that it probably happened in pic three. It looks like both axles are unloaded and the belly is dragging right across that ledge. That picture probably sealed your fate in having any luck getting it replaced.

I think your best bet would be to cut your losses with it and have your local vendor build a pan that is taylored to your vehicle and driving style.

 

[MarsFab]

I hope you didnt send them this one......... after seeing this I'd say you may want to delete this thread.

 

[levellinebrad]

Well, I would say that is probably where it got bent but as I stated before, I have had mine on the stock skid in that same posistion many more times than you and yes, my skid is deformed but not like yours. I think it was a poor design. I still say that it should have held it's shape alot more than it did. I would bend it back and add some structure to it.

 

[SSWaters]

My advice, have Chris build you a real belly pan. Have him straighten/re skin the one that's damaged and sell it to a mall crawler/poser.

From what I can tell, it's not even fully welded across the bracing.

 

[GotLime?]

That pic wasn't bad. It was just packed dirt and it was flat across the top. The jeep was resting on the skidS and the frame rails.

Chris, you're right, you can see where a rock struck the skid. It just seems like I'd notice a blow big enough to do that kind of damage.

 

[MarsFab]

It won't take a hard hit to do that. More than likely just laying on the pan like that and driving off of it would cause that damage. You can clearly see that the pan is bent in the picture I posted earlier. When that pan is new it should be level with the ground for the most part as you can see here....

In this image you can can clearly see that it's bent up substantially in the rear.....

While it did bend, I'd say it also did it's job of protecting your t-case. Your jeep weighs roughly 4300lbs. That is a bunch of weight resting on the skid, not to mention the force put on it when you broke over that dirt pile and landed on the skid.

I'm not really trying to give you a hard time. Being that I'm a builder of parts similar to these but on a smaller scale I really hate to see guys do exactly what you are doing. You say "I'm not going to go out and bad mouth River Raider" but you just posted this on the internet in a thread titled Jeep JK River Raider skids. If anybody goes on the net searching for information trying to make a decision whether to buy these skids or not they'll probably find this thread. That can really hurt a company. For someone as small as me that could be detrimental to my business. Word (especially bad word) travels fast.

3/16 steel IS a bit thin for a skid plate on a vehicle that actually does see some rocks. Knowing that in the future will help you make a decision when you replace this one. Fortunately for them they clearly state that it's made from 3/16 on their site, if they hadn't this whole issue would be a little different story. You can't really claim that it's made form inadequate materials and even if you could you bought it knowing what it was made of.

 

[CTRaceWorx]

I agree with almost everything Chris is saying, I just bet it weighs more than the 4300 pounds if I was to guess. With that being said 3/16 is way too thin to be run on a skid of that size, in that position. I say for how the skid was built it did its job.

 

[bbaxter51]

I agree with almost everything Chris is saying, I just bet it weighs more than the 4300 pounds if I was to guess. With that being said 3/16 is way too thin to be run on a skid of that size, in that position. I say for how the skid was built it did its job.

Regardless of weight, the skid was designed for a 4 door JK, whatever the weight is, it should be able to handle it for it's designed purpose. If it cant handle the weight of the entire rig, then what good is it? Especially at the prices those guys charge. If I just paid 1k for a full skid system and a bunch of people told me it did it's job after 1 trip out, now go buy a new one I'd be not as nice as Chris has been. When you pay that much for a skid made specifically for my rig, saying it did it's job after 1 trip and it's folded up like that isn't acceptable. IMO They should do a 1 time swap and he pays for shipping. If he folds the 2nd one it's on him, then it's time to find another vendor.

 

[MarsFab]

That brings up a whole different conversation. IMO there are three different types of off roaders.

The guys who unfortunately have learned their lesson by spending money over and over on mass produced parts like this only to find that they are almost always not truly for hardcore use and now have had custom parts built, taylored to their vehicle and wheel them on a regular basis.

The guys who are just getting into the sport and will probably soon learn these lessons, because they would like to start out small and work their way up to having a hard core rig built to the max. They'll buy these skids, wheel with them for a while, then one day realize that their bent all to hell because they might be doing a little tougher stuff than they thought.

Then there are the guys who have no intentions of building a hardcore rig. They want a nice rig that can go down the road everyday to work and take the family out for a ride around Uwharrie on the weekends. They buy parts like this skid and it does great for them. They hit a few rocks with it and never have any issues with their undercarriage.

I personally think just about all of us fit into one of these categories. One isn't better than another. My point is that 3/16 is thin, too thin for this application if you really plan to rock crawl. River Raider probably does make a good product that will take anything that 98% of the JK owners that buy them will do. So maybe they pad their advertising a little to sell more products. 98% of the guys that have bought them probably love them and could care less that it will probably bend.... until it happens. If Bud Light advertised that their beer would make you feel like shit in the morning and you'll probably sleep with an ugly girl if you drink too much. I doubt they'd sell much. If River Raider advertised their belly pans as strong enough for 98% of you JK guys, but it'll probably bend really bad if you hit it just right. You get the idea.

In a world where advertising is key to a business making it, instead of proving quality and reliability the customer needs to be educated on the product he intends to buy.

 

[MarsFab]

Regardless of weight, the skid was designed for a 4 door JK, whatever the weight is, it should be able to handle it for it's designed purpose. If it cant handle the weight of the entire rig, then what good is it? Especially at the prices those guys charge. If I just paid 1k for a full skid system and a bunch of people told me it did it's job after 1 trip out, now go buy a new one I'd be not as nice as Chris has been. When you pay that much for a skid made specifically for my rig, saying it did it's job after 1 trip and it's folded up like that isn't acceptable. IMO They should do a 1 time swap and he pays for shipping. If he folds the 2nd one it's on him, then it's time to find another vendor.

I do agree with you in the fact that RR should have handled it a little different. In Got Lime's defense they did seem a bit smart ass with their response but I think the pictures he sent them made it look like he had wheeled it pretty hard.

 

[bbaxter51]

If Bud Light advertised that their beer would make you feel like shit in the morning and you'll probably sleep with an ugly girl if you drink too much. I doubt they'd sell much.

Now this made me laugh!

 

[CTRaceWorx]

Regardless of weight, the skid was designed for a 4 door JK, whatever the weight is, it should be able to handle it for it's designed purpose. If it cant handle the weight of the entire rig, then what good is it? Especially at the prices those guys charge. If I just paid 1k for a full skid system and a bunch of people told me it did it's job after 1 trip out, now go buy a new one I'd be not as nice as Chris has been. When you pay that much for a skid made specifically for my rig, saying it did it's job after 1 trip and it's folded up like that isn't acceptable. IMO They should do a 1 time swap and he pays for shipping. If he folds the 2nd one it's on him, then it's time to find another vendor.

I am by no means defending River Raider, nor saying that he got his money's worth. My point is how much do you really expect to get out of a piece of 3/16 plate? Now I think of this a little different like Chris because we work with these materials everyday and have a good feel for what will work and what wont, most customers don't know. I don't know what RR advertises but without the skid it would have done damage, so in that sense...yes it did its job, do I think it did a great job and is a good product that's built well??....no. I do agree with you on the one time trade out and I hope they do make it right but in my opinion its just another under built skid that can't handle the weight of a four door JK, esp a 6,000lb 4 door that's not too terribly rare.

 

[CTRaceWorx]

Also to follow up what Chris is saying about 98% of JK owners, you have to look at the majority of the JKs they build. They're flashy and accessorized like hell and probably fall into the third category, skids that work just fine for them but wont take the any kind of moderate+ use.

 

[levellinebrad]

I still run the stock skids and they are holding up fine. A little bent and scraped all to hell. My cross member is mangled but the skids have held up better than gotlimes after market skids that advertise as being stronger than stock. I say bull shhhooot. I appreciate Chris posting this so that everybody knows that the RR stuff will not hold up under any type of wheeling. Did the skid do it's job? I guess it did and I guess the drunk and high union auto workers at Chrysler did there jobs too. They just did it half assed.

 

[mncdriver]

When we go wheeling things break or fail. That is the nature of our sport. Got lime bought aftermarket skids. They are advertised as better than factory. They did not work for him. That sucks. What is most dissapointing to me its that River Raider did nothing about it. They replied to a few e-mails, thats good. As far as good Customer service, they failed just like there skids. Sorry Got lime.

 

[GotLime?]

I took the Jeep to a buddys shop last night and put it on the lift to get a better look. The skid is on the TC. the transfer case appears to be what stopped the skid from bending further.

I'm no engineer or fabricator but the back section of the TC case skid goes from the frame rail on the driver's side to the gas tank with very little support. It's right in the center of the undercarriage where it seems to be susceptible to a lot of hits.

I'm working various angles:

1) Have someone repair and reinforce the current skid.
2) Buy a new one and have someone reinforce it properly before install
3) Get a thicker one and reinforce it.
4) Have a custom one built that will integrate with the other RR skids.

 

[GotLime?]

Another pic: