Kinda newbie question. But not so much.

csudman

csudman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Statesville
Ok, heres the deal. I'm just about done with the dual tranny toy build. Its sittin on 33's now. I can fit 37's with the appropirate amount of trimming and still have no lift. I'm building this thing low.

Now the question, can I run a 37-38" on stock birfs with a open front till I can afford a 30 spline longs and a locker, or weld the front. You guys know toy power, and I will have 180 to 1 reduction. So I dont have to gas it. I've got some spares, so thats not a huge issue. I just hate to spend money on tires that aren't what I want.

Can I do it on the east coast and get away with it.

And if not what about a 36" irok.

Thanks
CJ

And I'm glad the forums back.
 
Can you, yes, should you, probably not. I think it depends a lot on the terrain your going to be running as to what you can get away with. If your running more dirt/mud/wet rocks, you might be able to get by (for a little bit) but eventually with that kind of reduction the birfs are going to wear and pop, especially with a 37"-38" tire. If your running more technical high-traction rocks, I think you could probably kill them pretty quickly, especially if you were to lodge a tire in a crevice or something. Granted running open in the front will help, but I'd think it would be just a matter of time before you start killing birfs unless you're really really REALLY easy on the go pedal.
 
Toyo

The axles will hold up for a long time. The stock birfs will probably be ok as long as you are open and be carefull. I would recomend a set of Newfields as replacements.
 
IMO, the 30 spline long's are total overkill unless you've addressed the hub dowels, ring gear size, etc...If it was my money, I'd save my cash and get some Newfields/Longs, and use the money left over for a locker! ;)

I know a guy who is a finesse driver, and has been wheeling some VERY technical trails for years (usually twice a month), stock birfs.. he's about 120:1, V6 (more front end weight), 35" boggers, and full body.
 
Rich said:
IMO, the 30 spline long's are total overkill unless you've addressed the hub dowels, ring gear size, etc.
I plan on biulding a ultumite toy front eventualy. Gussetted, with the air ride hub mod, possible the new 6 hole knuckles and high steer, hopefully run a high pinion e-locked 3rd.

And I know people say, get a 60. This axle will be as strong as a 35 spline 60, possible stronger with the longs that hes gettin ready to release. Execpt for the ring gear. But, I can build this axle on my budget. A little at a time. It might take 2 years to get it done. But it will be bullet proof when I'm done.
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madcowdungbeetle said:
Can you, yes, should you, probably not. I think it depends a lot on the terrain your going to be running as to what you can get away with. If your running more dirt/mud/wet rocks, you might be able to get by (for a little bit) but eventually with that kind of reduction the birfs are going to wear and pop, especially with a 37"-38" tire. If your running more technical high-traction rocks, I think you could probably kill them pretty quickly, especially if you were to lodge a tire in a crevice or something. Granted running open in the front will help, but I'd think it would be just a matter of time before you start killing birfs unless you're really really REALLY easy on the go pedal.
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Tellico, URE, etc. I would like to make a west coast trip in a few years, but my truck will be fully built before that.
 
I've never broken a birf with good gear reduction, and 35" boggers, 36" swampers or the 37" MTRs. Use your head, not the skinny pedal, and you will limit the carnage. Hopefully!
In New England, there is a guy that explodes birfs, axles and hub studs on 33s, and is unlocked, almost everytime out. No gears, and lots of pedal...

It's good to be back! :burnout:
 
my buddy chris has run 36tsl's for 3 years or so with stock birfs and havent broken one. and he has run tellico with them.
 
csudman said:
And I know people say, get a 60. This axle will be as strong as a 35 spline 60, possible stronger with the longs that hes gettin ready to release. Execpt for the ring gear. But, I can build this axle on my budget. A little at a time. It might take 2 years to get it done. But it will be bullet proof when I'm done.
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I've gone back and forth on this time and time again in my own head, so let me share...

The 30 spline 4340/300m long's are as strong as a stock Spicer 35 spline yoke. Even the Randy's Yukon stuff is quite a step above that... the long's can't compare. Even then, you've got the .250 wall axle tubes, the smaller pinion, much smaller ring gear, smaller locker parts, less material in the knuckles, spindles, C's, etc...

There's nothing from preventing you form building a 60 as time and money permits, either...

Here's what you've got -

Yota axle build - hi steer (~$250), 6-stud knuckles (~$300), spindle stud conversion ($25), long's & inners ($650), lockout modification, high pinion e-locker 3rd - geared (~$1k?) (I'm running a low-pinion, and am fine with it)

60 - hi-steer (~$250), gears & e-locker (~$1k), Randy's cromo's and Bobby's treated joints (~$500?), 35 spline lockouts (ebay)

So the total price is similar when you factor in the initial purchase price of either axle, but you're left with a far stronger unit when you start with the 60.

That totally leaves out one of my biggest reasons to go 60 - width. I would like to be 80-82" overall width, and even at 78" right now (10" rims, 2" effective BS), it takes a mile to turn around. With a 60, I can run wheels with more like 5" BS, steer more sharply, and turn in a MUCH tighter circle.

Just my $.02
 
I agree with Rich. :)
I had a hi pinion elocked front axle and longs (tho not installed) but sold it to build a D60 for the taco. I will run deep backspaced wheels to help with the width and be happier in the long run, with an axle that will work with large tires (39.5s planned) and I won't have to worry about. Since I'm starting over on a new vehicle, I just wanted to "begin with the end in mind". :)

Of course, at present rate, I won't be wheeling that thing in 2009. :(
 
Yoda front axle

I like my Toyota front axle, including the width (4" back spacing on 10" wheels), and especially the clearance. I have an excellent turning radius also.
 
I understand the 60 arguement. But your leaving out one huge cost. At least 1000.00 for the axle. Then 2-300 to rebuild the brakes, joints, etc. Have to do highsteer off the bat, or at least crossover. 250.00 min. So I'm into it for at least 1500.00 just to get it running. Oh, and did I mention that I'd have to buy a rear axle and rebuild it. Then modifly all the d-lines, brakelines, spring hanger and perches, and who knows what else. (oh yeah, new wheels)

Thats always bugged me. Everybody says 60's. I would guess that when I was done with everything required, just to get them into my truck with no lockers and stock parts. I'd have spent at least 3500.00.

I can have a fully built toy front, by Rich's numbers for 1750.00. (500.00 for a high pinion e-locker) That with the tire size I'm running will be pretty much indestructable. The big thing here is, I dont want 6,000,000 lbs of axle either. And I honestly dont want to be much wider than I am now. Maybe 2" Also, I can do this over the next two years. And afford it.

That Kinda turned into a rant. No ill will ment by it. I appreciate the thoughts and comments. Keepem coming.
 
negative on the 3500 bucks to have a 60 up and running.

HP 60 -- 1000 (and got a rear 60 in perfect shape for free)
steering arms -- 225
new brake pads -- 30
tearing it down and greasing everything and putting it back together -- free
4.88's -- 120
lockright-- 290
setting up gears on your expensive axle in the driveway -- priceless, and free

total-- 1665

being able to beat your rig with 40 inch tires is nice, and affordable. welding perches on the axle tubes should be the least of your concerns, that is the easy part, slide it under the rig when it is ready and wheel the crap out of it. run the joints that are in it when you buy it, and carry a spare, or get some joints for 38 bucks like i did.

i think what rich was saying is that you can build your 60 on the floor of the garage, and wheel your yota axle with the stock birfs. build the 60 as cash allows, then when it is finished, slide it under the yota, and weld the perches on. done. then sell the yota axle for some gas money.


one very good point though is the beauty of toyota axle clearance. it is amazing, and they seem to slide over everything.
sounds to me like you have your mind made up, so there really isn't a discussion, but your 3500 number is crazy....
 
mogs are cool too. i don't disagree with you on the no need for a 60 idea at all. they are heavy and catch on rocks and are breakable like anything else. the beauty of building a rig, do it your way...
 
If I were breaking stuff, I would go to a 60 in a heart beat. But I'm not. I wheel about as much as any one, a thousand trail miles per year. I run 38" TSL and tackle all the obstacles. I started with a set of Marfield joints (made by newfield),and worn them to the clicking point with hard turns. I made a mistake, replaced one with a profield, which broke thirty minutes off the trailer. I then installed a longfield which lasted 3 trips, I now have a set of Newfields and carry the Marfields for spares. I run a high pinion FJ 80 third with a Detroit Locker, the rest is stock Toyo stuff. 10" wheels with 4" back spacing. You probably would have to run 44's with a 60 to have the same clearance.
 
I've found a guy on Pirate that has all the 60 parts you need. Good pricing which includes delivery to your door. Just look under Vendors. HighHonda is his s/n. I'm gonna be in about 2k for my 60, but I'm going with the Eaton E-locker, so that's $600 right there. I only paid $800 for my front 60, but all the other stuf adds up quick ! DC at DC4WD has great pricing on R/P, lockers, etc too.
JB
 
My 60 cost:

800 axle
700 4.56 gears and full spool, complete install of brakes/rotors/calipers, ect. basicly pick up and install
180 hi steer arms
425 35 spline/hubs/joints
400 hydro assist
Sell stock 4.10, 30 stubs, calipers, rotors. $200 ( I went all new parts cause I can buy at dealer cost)

Still have the driveshaft to go. So roughly 2200-2500 when all is said and done.

But I wont have to worry "too much" when that little voice says to stop before the pop ;)
 
Ok, I'm not running a 60. In general, It looks like I could run 38's on an open toy front while I build the axle. Lock it last. Obviously carring spares.
 
me personaly , i think youll do just fine on stock birfs.i ve been running 36 tsl's for 3 years on the same stock birfs and and locker and, have not broken one yet.im sure youll break them eventually but for now spend you money on the e-locker and the hy-steer and worry about those longs when you can aford them.till then give em hell.
 
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