lead shot or water in tires on trail rig

Jon Sullivan

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Location
Harrodsburg Ky.
Does anybody run extra weight in thier tires on a trail rig or buggy? I know it can really help keep the tires on the ground but are there any drawbacks when just cruiseing down the trail? Does it take more power to turn them over? Also what is best lead shot, or water etc? What Additives would you add to water to keep your wheels from rusting from the inside out? How much weight do you want to add per tire? Is it really worth it on a buggy that sees hard trails but will never see a comp? What is your experience?
 
I don't and wouldn't. Some people do it on comp rigs that climb near verticle walls. My dad has it in his ATV. Use RV antifreeze.
 
x2 on RV antifreeze. won't make your wheels rust, and if you bust a bead or tire it biodegradeable
 
GubNi said:
I don't and wouldn't. Some people do it on comp rigs that climb near verticle walls. My dad has it in his ATV. Use RV antifreeze.
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Just curious what your reasoning is for not doing it? What disadvantages do you see?
 
Well I like to go to harlan and it's a mile or so on the road. At higher speeds (above 10mph) it tends to move with the tire and can make for a rough ride. Also I believe one of the keys to the success of my rig is light weight. I'd never add the weight and I've done some crazy stuff and don't know of many times it would help.
 
I've heard of people running around 6oz of antifreeze in each tire. Not really to add weight but to help balance out the wheels and tires. i was planning on trying it myself.
 
use bbs or airsoft bbs or tennis balls
 
I fill my tires up with leftover corn dogs. course i work at the fair and they are free, but it adds weight and if you bust a bead, you just take a break and have a snack before the repair.
jon, this is deja vu all over again! seems like we just talking about this...... but ill be looking for everyones opinions too!
 
I think you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself. First, do you feel that there is some suspension travel that your rig is capable of that you're not currently getting? I suppose that the best way to check for that would be to flex out the rig with a tire hanging in the air and then have someone push down on that tire to see if there is anymore suspension travel available. If there is, then figure out what is limiting your travel. If that thing turns out to be the weight of your tire and wheel assembly, then maybe experiment with adding a little something. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time. Scratch that, it's worse than a waste of time, because heavier wheels will accelerate wear on all of your steering and suspension components. Frankly, unless you know for a fact that you'll gain significantly from it, it's not worth doing.
 
that was a big deal in the r/c crawling world for a while. i never saw a huge advantage with it though. i think the only nice thing was you could run no foams...real world equivelance of super low air pressure...and not be riding on the rims.

but, i doubt that would translate into a real world advantage.
 
GubNi said:
Well I like to go to harlan and it's a mile or so on the road. At higher speeds (above 10mph) it tends to move with the tire and can make for a rough ride. Also I believe one of the keys to the success of my rig is light weight. I'd never add the weight and I've done some crazy stuff and don't know of many times it would help.
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I agree I also built My buggy with the idea that less weight and a simple drivetrain would perfom better offroad in most situations. So far it has. I also like to go fast. Mostly down the mountain at harlan, and i can see how the weight in the tires would adversly affect the handleing. Thanks for your input.
Roughshod said:
I think you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself. First, do you feel that there is some suspension travel that your rig is capable of that you're not currently getting? I suppose that the best way to check for that would be to flex out the rig with a tire hanging in the air and then have someone push down on that tire to see if there is anymore suspension travel available. If there is, then figure out what is limiting your travel. If that thing turns out to be the weight of your tire and wheel assembly, then maybe experiment with adding a little something. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time. Scratch that, it's worse than a waste of time, because heavier wheels will accelerate wear on all of your steering and suspension components. Frankly, unless you know for a fact that you'll gain significantly from it, it's not worth doing.
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I wasn't really asking the question because I was looking for more suspension travel. I have plenty of that. I was mostly thinking of how the weight would help keep the tires on the ground in off camber situations, and also how the weight in the tire would help the tire to bite better, and finally any downside to doing this in a trail rig as opposed to a comp buggy. I have simply never seen anyone do this on a trail rig or it discussed anywhere and I wondered why. I appreciate the input though.
 
It's done a lot less now in comp rigs than before, but...it's pretty easy to do. Why not try it yourself with your rig and let us know what happens? You can build the water hose to schrader adapter easily or buy it at a tractor parts store.
 
I'm assuming your axles are up to the task of the extra weight?
 
Roughshod said:
I think you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself. First, do you feel that there is some suspension travel that your rig is capable of that you're not currently getting? I suppose that the best way to check for that would be to flex out the rig with a tire hanging in the air and then have someone push down on that tire to see if there is anymore suspension travel available. If there is, then figure out what is limiting your travel. If that thing turns out to be the weight of your tire and wheel assembly, then maybe experiment with adding a little something. Otherwise, it's just a waste of time. Scratch that, it's worse than a waste of time, because heavier wheels will accelerate wear on all of your steering and suspension components. Frankly, unless you know for a fact that you'll gain significantly from it, it's not worth doing.
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I think the biggest potential advantage (if there ever was 1) of running water/extra weight in the tires is a lower CoG. I remember reading about guys out West filling their tires 75% full of water, so there's an extra hundred lbs or so nice and low.

I like your logic with the added droop assistance, but I think that's secondary.

Agreed on added inertia to turn, and therefore less power to the ground (and substantially increased braking distance). This will definitely wear out TRE's etc quick-er too...and if you're on the verge of not enough axle for your tire-size/wheeling style, this added inertia or resistance will brake some chit for ya too!
 
Rich said:
I'm assuming your axles are up to the task of the extra weight?
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This is what I wonder about.
There was al ong discussion about thsi recently on the MD Creepers board, there's a handful of comp buggy guys there. Some were saying they've filled as much as 1/2 or more of the tire w/ water before. main goal being to add weight down real low, so the COG gets lowered and is always close to the rocks.
Good theory, but I can't imagine the stress on an axle or hub if you tried to sling that around at any road speed, lol.
Do the math and it's quite alot of weight added. 8.3 poulds per gallon.
 
Rich said:
I'm assuming your axles are up to the task of the extra weight?
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I guess there is only one way to find out? If i do decide to try it out I will post up to let you guys know if anything exploded, and if I notice any difference in handleing. If i do decide to put water in, it will just be in the front tires at least at first.
 
A buddy of mine filled his back tires (37's) about 3/4 of the way full with water and antifreeze. He ran it a couple of times at Harlan. He didn't have any bad side affects on the road at speed, but it wasn't over about 30 MPH. It worked awesome for traction, but he eventually killed a rear ring and pinion, after that he decided to take half of it out. I think it added about 450 pounds all together.
 
redman_30_06 said:
A buddy of mine filled his back tires (37's) about 3/4 of the way full with water and antifreeze. He ran it a couple of times at Harlan. He didn't have any bad side affects on the road at speed, but it wasn't over about 30 MPH. It worked awesome for traction, but he eventually killed a rear ring and pinion, after that he decided to take half of it out. I think it added about 450 pounds all together.
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Not to mention that much weight is murder on tie rod ends, wheel bearings, etc if you do it in the front.
 
For myself I am not so concerned about TRE's since mine has been converted to heims and i carry spares. I can see some wear on wheel bearings but honestly on an off road only rig, the rigours of off road use are going to be rough on wheel bearings regardless. They are going to see wear no matter what. My biggest concern would be a broken ring a pinion. I have some $ invested in my hp front 3rd. Anybody else have any first hand experience with this?
 
Wow
just a rough estimate
37" tire at 15" "hole" in middle, say 13.5 wide is about 12,130 cu inches
that's 52.5 gallons you could fit (if that's the inside dimension)
at 8.34 lbs/ gallon water, that's almost 440 lbs
 
RatLabGuy said:
Wow
just a rough estimate
37" tire at 15" "hole" in middle, say 13.5 wide is about 12,130 cu inches
that's 52.5 gallons you could fit (if that's the inside dimension)
at 8.34 lbs/ gallon water, that's almost 440 lbs
Click to expand...



Yeah, that's a lot of weight down low. Not uncommon to run ballast in heavy machinery tires, I'd consider it if I had a trail only rig and axles stout enough to deal with the rotational mass...
 
RatLabGuy said:
Wow
just a rough estimate
37" tire at 15" "hole" in middle, say 13.5 wide is about 12,130 cu inches
that's 52.5 gallons you could fit (if that's the inside dimension)
at 8.34 lbs/ gallon water, that's almost 440 lbs
Click to expand...

Maybe it was 400 something pounds per side. I know you didn't let one fall over if you took it off the rig, it was all you could do to pick it back up.
 
Definitly be a good idea to base the amount of water in each tire on the wieght of the rig and consider what the axles are up to.
 
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