Lets talk buggies....

Yay!Gurrr

Yay!Gurrr

Better Faster Stronger
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Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Location
N. N. Raleigh, NC
I'm in the ~1year away planning stage for a buggy. I'm posting this just as a general discussion to get some input from those in the 50%+ tube or more crowd.

My current jeep is doing well and I'm happy with its performance. But frankly it's just not cutting it in some areas. The more I've used it the more damage its taken and while overall small in the big picture it's pushed me more into realizing I'm ready to focus more on trail ability vs streetability.

I swapped off my street tires and was thinking, I'm really getting tired of swapping these things.... I need some hydro and due to several factors I really just haven't wanted to do an assist setup (even though I have 98% of the parts) All this has me asking, where do I stop with 'this' rig vs planning out a better long term solution.

Just some random statements to put my thoughts into perspective:

Personally I'm really happy with the 38s, but I can see something in the ~40" range being a nice target size.

I have zero desire to do a back half project or link what I have, I feel it would be a compromise.

What all have you guys done that you wish you had done differently ?

Any design criteria that was overlooked? You wish it did X?

Happy with amount/type of storage ? To much ? to little ?

Happy with driver/rider comforts? Get too wet (rain vs tire goo)? Too hot in summer ? Too cold in winter?

I'm happy with how the D60/14b is working out. I foresee some CVs in the future, so rear steer really doesn't jump out as being 'needed'

I'm also happy with my gearing/trans setup. (700r4/D300,4:1) I'd like to replace my 307chev w/ a comparable 4.3l for better packaging.

I think a 4000# target goal is doable.

Suspension ? coil overs vs air ? Any input at a high level from those that have either.

Along with all the above.. I'd like some input and discussion on designs that allow for better long term use of the same base chassis. Like being able to individually replace the front\ rear, roof segments, side bars with out a total chassis redo. I have some ideas in my head and penciled out on paper.

what else ???
 
:popcorn:
 
I'll start

Likes:
Lots of room
Love my soft seats
love the 3rd seat in rear
toy drive line

The I wishes:
Made a shorter wheel base
More belly height
Looked a little harder at the drive shaft angles
Went ahead and did rear steer

My chassis builder built exactly what I thought I wanted so no gripes there. Wish I'd done a few things different(more thought and less hurry up and build it), there again my thought.

Masking tape is your friend when laying out a chassis(lots cheaper and easier to remove). Hope this helps rather than all the "that's what I thought the answer would be".
 
Hmmm ok, good start but..... need more details to help me....
wish a shorter WB ? as in 80"
More belly ? 30"
Rear steer ? why? is it a factor of your current 145" WB?
 
Current wheel base is about 128" The rear steer is to help get up the same trails with the guys I ride with at the 110" range, but I'm, a 3 seater so it's a give and take. The belly height is now about 21.5" with 42" irocs. Would love to have the wheel base at about 115-118" range. And yes I'd love 30" of belly height at my current wheel base.
 
I'll say that if you're gonna build a buggy, you're not gonna be able to dodge the elements and tire slop anymore to a large extent, nor is a 4.3 gonna cut it. If you're gonna wheel the terrain that dictates having a buggy, you're gonna want power. Even PJ's old buggy kicked much ass, but the new one has a V8.. My 5.3 weighs about as much as an iron 4.3, a LS1 weight 80-100 lbs less than that...

Air shocks are fine, but also budget in a sway bar.

My wheelbase at 110" and a 24" belly height worked out very well, I'm pleased with it.

Rear steer is GREAT, but it certainly adds complexity, each system (electric or hydraulic) has its drawbacks, and honestly, if I had tons, I wouldn't have done it. But 2 x 30° beats 1 x 60°, big time.

I could use a little more storage, but some soft bags could take care of that.
 
I made the swap to buggy about a year ago.

What I don't like.
  • Rainy cold wheeling is kinda miserable now versus my heated comfy rubi I was used to.
  • Storage is a little on the tight side but I could alleviate that if it bothered me to much.
  • Spectators, People sometimes think just because you have a buggy that your going to intentionally flop it to give them a show.
  • Belly height of 23" was a little to low so I'm going from 37" to 40" tires which will help some.
  • Weak Motor (22r)
  • Mesh Roof and or softtop. (I thought the softtop would be ok for the rain but all it did was allow the water to run off the top and down onto my lap :/, So I'm going to replace the mesh roof with some sheet and also put a rain gutter on it so it doesn't run all over the occupants when the rig tilts etc.)


What I like about it.
  • No body to worry about.
  • 106" WB works great.
  • Visibility is great.
  • Flat Belly.
  • Lots of gearing.
  • On dry days its great to be able to enjoy nature.
  • It's so fun to have a buggy.
  • I run an Ftoy so I'm working with leaf springs but honestly I can't complain about them and they do the job.
  • Very basic setup so reliability is good and fixing something isn't to hard.(Propane, Leafs, reliable motor and components)
  • Narrow. I like Toy axles for this. I normally have better/more line selections than a full width rig does.
  • Weight.. It's still heavy for a buggy(~3k) but still helps in the rocks.

Other
  • Seating hasn't been an issue (2 seater) in my rig but my family just grew to 3 but I did leave enough room for a jeep bench seat in the back so keep that stuff in mind too.
  • Keep a budget and keep resaleability in mind as well. A lot of people want 3-4 seat rigs now for the family and friends.



Bottom line I won't go back to a non buggy rig.

Advice: If you can afford it Keep your jeep running and functional while you build a buggy. That way when you get burnt out from the work you can take a weekend off and go play which helps you set your focus again so you finish the buggy.
 
The most important things i can think of....

1. Seats ... SPend as much as you can afford.....Suspension is your friend
2. Motor.. 4cyl's work but they don't get the chicks.....
3. Rear steer... It is cheating but does add complexity and price to your build.
4. Cab Comfort... Build it roomy enough that you will not want to get out of it..
5. Tire size... 40's or bigger.. when you build it...you will get there soon enough anyway...
6. Use as little used parts as possible when it comes to brakes, Drivetrain and electronics.. You know why...
7. Whatever you think it is going to cost... double it at least.
8. If you are doing the work. Try to work on it a little at a time, By setting small goals per time in the shop.. Keeps your patience under control and actually makes your work better..
9. If you have someone build it. check out their work and spend some time on a game plan.... So you both no what to expect and are happy in the end..
10. I agree, if you can afford it, keep your jeep during build.. Buggy is a huge project that sometimes can get over whelming. To keep interest you will need some wheel time..
... I will add as i think of them..
 
Jeep07 said:
Bottom line I won't go back to a non buggy rig.
Advice: If you can afford it Keep your jeep running and functional while you build a buggy. That way when you get burnt out from the work you can take a weekend off and go play which helps you set your focus again so you finish the buggy.
Click to expand...

Thats kinda sorta my plan if I can do it that way or at least minimize the overall downtime.

Great input so far, lots of points I hadn't considered.. (why I posted this)

Builders - Not to turn this into a buggy brand discussion, but I do watch the build threads and look at stuff when I'm out and about. I've casually talked to a few local builders and do like their designs. Most discussions have been full on tire kicking at best. I like various aspects of several builders and equally don't like some of the features. I wouldn't want to buy something if I didn't like all of it.

I do have a bender hiding somewhere, so my preference would be to purchase an unfinished product so i could tweak the details to my liking... Not everyone likes to send stuff out the door that way, so who knows.. Plus fact is I'm hard to please, not sure anyone would want to deal with me :flipoff2:

engines - Not sure Im ready for 21st century motors. I'm just getting the 1972 307 broke in ;) I be curious to see the power curves on the various motors.

I want to transition to a buggy for some other reasons already stated, not necessarily to wheel the super extream stuff.

Anyway, keep it coming..
 
I've been building a buggy for the past 4 years and I'm almost done. Here's some things I've found.

-make sure you put every control within easy reach from being belted in your harness tight. It sucks trying to stretch for something while you're on a rough trail.

-if you're gonna trail ride all day, be sure you have a big enough gas tank. I put a 15 gal in mine.

-fuel injection is worth it. I have $800 in a good running 97 4.3 and a howells stand alone fuel injection harness so it doesn't always cost a fortune.

-you can't have too much storage space.

-you're going to be using parts from all different makes and models. make a list of what you use and what it came off of so when you break and need a part, you know exactly what you need without trying to remember. Part numbers are always useful if you put new parts on to start with.

-This relates to the last one-use common parts. That way you can go to the local parts store and pick it up if it's something that's keeping you from being on the trail instead of having to wait overnight.

-try to make at least a rough plan of everything you're going to do to it and where you're going to put things. That way you're not putting something in the way of something else.

-do things right the first time. Cutting a corner to save a few dollars will only end up costing more in the long run.
 
weather protection - I've been sewing more junk from canvas with my bomber sewing machine, my thought would be to make a top that attached directly to the cage, possibly with a separate or fold out piece that would cover/transition water off the roof etc.. The top would have no hardware etc, and use like bungee balls things to stay attached and be removed.

Fuel tank size - How much are you actually using on an all day ride ? (Are you running out) I think with a v6 (200hp) engine I could run all day on 8-10 gals.

I suspect Ill have a wooden or plastic foe tube buggy as a mockup if I end up doing it myself...

anyway....
 
Like you Mike I too would enjoy owning a buggy. I have looked at them for years. I love to watch them, and have had many thoughts as to what I like and don't
Seems to me the buggy guys are more gear to the obstacle, rather than creature comforts and long distance trail riding.
Storage on most buggies I have seen is minimal. Being a guy who probably has too much stuff, but I like it that way. So storage would be a high priority for me. Seating comfort is another biggie. From comfortable seating, ease of getting in and out, I am getting older, and climbing in and out, and time in the seat are high on the list.
As mentioned, building with easy to get parts only makes sense to me. About anywhere you go, there are autozones and advances.
Building it with more center clearance compared to length only makes since.
Protection from elements would be high too on my list. Not many buggies have heaters. I like wheeling in the winter, and I like the wife to go, so heat is a biggie.
WOW






Thanks Mike, now you have me dreaming!
 
Build it badass and ride with other people who have room to carry all the tools.:lol:

it's all trade offs really..the more performance, the less creature comforts. You just have to figure out what you rellay want. Buggy = sorta hot in the summer, sorta cold in the winter, always fun.
 
BIGWOODY said:
Buggy = sorta hot in the summer, sorta cold in the winter, always fun.
Click to expand...

Since I sold the Portaled FJ80 and got the Buggy, I've had to work on it almost everytime out...have broke two axles and a Detroit...get dirty and dusty...no room for anything...


...but there's no way I would go back :huggy:
 
George - I really liked your FJ, I can't wait to see your new ride.
------
Safety - I'm lumping some 'loss' of creature comforts into being a good thing. I'm ok taking an extra minute climbing in. I feel like I'm half falling out sometimes.

What kind of helmets are you guys using/ seen / like etc..

As I stated above I think having a eye on ATV, and cycle gear as part of the overall design will help retain some comforts at the driver level vs the rig level. Seriously what's a soft top cost ? Soft doors ? You get my point..

Suspension Joints - QA1 heims ? or johnny joint ? how are things holding up for you guys?
 
I went the half Jeep/half buggy direction because I wanted to be able to easily enclose the cab area when its wet/muddy/cold, yet still go where buggies go with minimal worry of body damage. I tried to do this as budget as possible and the only thing that I really splurged on was the rear axle.

126" wheelbase, 23" belly, 77" wide @ outside of tires, 78" to top of cage, 52" wide body tub, rearsteer, dbl tri four links, airshocks, 20 gal gas tank, johnny joints on all links.


So far it seems as if it is going to be a good combination of both comfort and ability.
 
I reccomend 100 to 110 wheelbase and 42's. Storage just means extra weight to carry, so don't really need it that much. I have cherokee coils in the front and 18" SAW air shocks in the rear and love it. The coils keep me stable and the shocks give me flex.
 
Mike - I'm still building my half buggy half YJ as you know, but in retrospect, I wish I had pulled the cab/cowl portions off the frame and built a tubular chassis around my specific drivetrain and under the body at the same time... rather than keeping the front half of the frame.

Also, have your drivetrain assembled and build around it... While mine seems to be working out as planned, there are some minor tweaks I wish could have been made up front if I had the engine, trans, tcs before bending tube.

Like John said, I too wouldn't go the heim route either.
 
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