LongArms... Radius style vs 3-4-5 link

jdubb said:
I never imagined how much flex you can get out of a 3 link when I built mine. This is with the drivers side on the bump stop so it just some of what I got out of 24" lowers.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joelsjeep/7556342674/
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More pics please! :D

As I look at all the various methods of packaging, appears most think/believe the 3-link works fine *wherever* it'll fit... keeping the lowers fairly parallel (horz & vert) with frame, keeping the TA parallel/same length as the DL, & keeping the upper away from contact?
 
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I ran both 3 link w/ panard an radius with jonny joints on both ends and now a 3 link. 3 link definately more flexxy but I really never had any problems with my clayton radius arms. I was kinda suprised that everything on the 3 link fit with out any problems.
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Caver Dave said:
Guessing that tall(5"-10" lift)/softer coils might require one, where say a shorter(OE-4")/stiffer coils might be able to overcome the unloading on sidehills/angles?
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This is not necessarily true. Not all but most manufacturers make the spring rates higher the taller the spring when it comes to std. lift kit springs. The taller the vehicle will be with the springs installed the more body roll you'll have. Lift kit companies counteract this by making them stiffer because they have to factor in that most customers will street drive their rigs as much as they wheel them.

Like Zuber said earlier, the sway bar is not as much for body roll as it is there to balance the front and rear suspension. Coils with long arms typically flex very well when set up right BUT they flex so well that the rear springs don't move. So you run over a rock with the driver front tire and feel super stable cause the front axle flexes right over it. When the rear tires go over it the whole body of the jeep feels like its gonna flop cause the front unloads and the rear springs stay stiff. Running a sway bar on the front will force the rear to flex, with a little tuning you can get the front and rear balanced so they both move the same.
 
Caver Dave said:
More pics please! :D

As I look at all the various methods of packaging, appears most think/believe the 3-link works fine *wherever* it'll fit... keeping the lowers fairly parallel (horz & vert) with frame, keeping the TA parallel/same length as the DL, & keeping the upper away from contact?
Click to expand...

I put some more pics on that same Flickr account
 
RHSCTJ - I've drooled over rthose pics since you first posted them!
jdubb... Thank you sir! What are your plans for springs? Coils? Coilovers? Airshocks?

For others
  • Will there be any issues since his track-bar & draglink are NOT the same length? (not calling "open season" on jdubb's build! :p )... From what I've read, they should be both parallel *and* the same length?
  • What are the potential Pros/Cons/gotchas for mounting my coils directly between the frame & axle? Doesn't appear there's room outboard in my application (narrow '72 frame & NT axle)
Chris, thanks to you and Andy for the tips! Keep them coming! As I get a little closer (plan to crawl underneath for some measurements THIS week!), I'll need a ton of help pointing out the obvious... that I'll likely totally miss! :D
 
Caver Dave said:
RHSCTJ - I've drooled over rthose pics since you first posted them!
jdubb... Thank you sir! What are your plans for springs? Coils? Coilovers? Airshocks?

For others
  • Will there be any issues since his track-bar & draglink are NOT the same length? (not calling "open season" on jdubb's build! :p )... From what I've read, they should be both parallel *and* the same length?
  • What are the potential Pros/Cons/gotchas for mounting my coils directly between the frame & axle? Doesn't appear there's room outboard in my application (narrow '72 frame & NT axle)
Chris, thanks to you and Andy for the tips! Keep them coming! As I get a little closer (plan to crawl underneath for some measurements THIS week!), I'll need a ton of help pointing out the obvious... that I'll likely totally miss! :D
Click to expand...

Bump steer is the main side affect for not having the drag link and track bar the same length and same angle.

Putting the coils under the frame will probably force you to use a very short spring. If the rig ends up too high, you won't be able to lower it. Keep in mind that chopping a 'turn or two' out of a coil spring to make it shorter actually makes it stiffer.

A lot of the Samurai guys use coilover coils since they are small diameter compared to XJ/TJ springs. Maybe those would fit? Like these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-14-175/
 
drkelly said:
A lot of the Samurai guys use coilover coils since they are small diameter compared to XJ/TJ springs. Maybe those would fit? Like these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-14-175/
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While I'm hoping to use the (very cheap :D) highly available TJ/XJ coils and might gain a few inches notching buckets into the frame (undecided if it's even possible or worth the effort), those are definitely an alternative!
 
Caver Dave said:
those are definitely an alternative!
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They shouldn't be for a vehicle as heavy as your Jeepster..........

The ratio of coil diameter to length will cause you major issues with the coil wanting to fold over, etc.. They may work for a sami but I wouldn't put them on anything except coil overs...........
 
zubz said:
They shouldn't be for a vehicle as heavy as your Jeepster..........

The ratio of coil diameter to length will cause you major issues with the coil wanting to fold over, etc.. They may work for a sami but I wouldn't put them on anything except coil overs...........
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:eek:ops: Thank you again sir! IIRC, she weighed-in at 4200# in trail trim...
 
Caver Dave said:
RHSCTJ - I've drooled over rthose pics since you first posted them!
jdubb... Thank you sir! What are your plans for springs? Coils? Coilovers? Airshocks?

For others
  • Will there be any issues since his track-bar & draglink are NOT the same length? (not calling "open season" on jdubb's build! :p )... From what I've read, they should be both parallel *and* the same length?
  • What are the potential Pros/Cons/gotchas for mounting my coils directly between the frame & axle? Doesn't appear there's room outboard in my application (narrow '72 frame & NT axle)
Chris, thanks to you and Andy for the tips! Keep them coming! As I get a little closer (plan to crawl underneath for some measurements THIS week!), I'll need a ton of help pointing out the obvious... that I'll likely totally miss! :D
Click to expand...

Jdubbs setup is running. Hes using coilovers up front. Ive road with him some and it does well. Cant comment on road handling & bump steer.

Sent via telegraph
 
We're about to find out how it does on the road but based on high speed passes on the fields I'd day the front makes the rear seem crappy. Makes me want to notch the rear for coilovers too. The draglink and panhard bar are almost parallel to the ground so its not a big deal. There's nothing groundbreaking on my front setup. I like the through the frame upper frame mount but it was out of necessity not ingenuity that I did it this way. I had to cover holes left by the shackle reversal!
 
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jdubb said:
We're about to find out how it does on the road but based on high speed passes on the fields I'd day the front makes the rear seem crappy. Makes me want to notch the rear for coilovers too. The draglink and panhard bar are almost parallel to the ground so its not a big deal. There's nothing groundbreaking on my front setup.
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I'm sure it will do fine brother! Again, wasn't bashing you/setup, just asking questions based on the wide variety of info I'd read and wondered if the dissimilar lengths would cause issue?

jdubb said:
I like the through the frame upper frame mount but it was out of necessity not ingenuity that I did it this way. I had to cover holes left by the shackle reversal!
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Not following you (pics) there... looks like the upper is stacked on top of the lower mount?
 
zubz said:
They shouldn't be for a vehicle as heavy as your Jeepster..........

The ratio of coil diameter to length will cause you major issues with the coil wanting to fold over, etc.. They may work for a sami but I wouldn't put them on anything except coil overs...........
Click to expand...

I've never seen them used on anything other than Samurai's, so I agree that your concern is valid. I was kind of surprised the first time I saw them on a Samurai, but they seem to work just fine, and some of those Sami buggies are probably 3,000 lbs. I've never seen or heard of anyone folding one over.
 
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