Longfield vs Factory 10mm bolt

frankenyoter

frankenyoter

No Rain, No Rainbow
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Mar 17, 2009
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Did this backing up at full clock. Not a tight spot either. First time for everything.

I have Longfield 30 spline axles with chromoly hub gears. Factory Toyota locking hubs are STRONG!

Broken Hub Assembly.jpg


I have spares but plan to try to extract the broken studs in my to keep my spare time.
 
Pretty common weak spot for yota axles. Arp sells a high strength stud kit to fix that. That, and keeping them tight. Have fun getting those out. :flipoff2:
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That has happened to me twice in my Sami. Both times was with grade 12.9 bolts too. The Sami bolts are 8mm. I didn't bother trying to get them out. I just swapped on a spare wheel hub I had.

I've seen where a guy kept breaking those on his Yota axles. Instead of buying expensive ARP studs, he drilled out the wheel hub to use 7/16" dia bolts IIRC. In doing so, he did away with the cone washers, but claimed to never have a problem again. Apparently there is enough meat around the holes on the Yota hubs to do so.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/706547-7-16th-locking-hub-bolts.html
 
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drkelly said:
That has happened to me twice in my Sami. Both times was with grade 12.9 bolts too. The Sami bolts are 8mm. I didn't bother trying to get them out. I just swapped on a spare wheel hub I had.

I've seen where a guy kept breaking those on his Yota axles. Instead of buying expensive ARP studs, he drilled out the wheel hub to use 7/16" dia bolts IIRC. In doing so, he did away with the cone washers, but claimed to never have a problem again. Apparently there is enough meat around the holes on the Yota hubs to do so.
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Hell it'd be worth the effort to get rid of those !@#$ cone washers
but yeah, its hard to get a lot of strength out of a 6mm bolt, a 7/16 would be almost 2x the diameter but nearly 3-4x the shear strength
 
trail gear makes a fix
 
This may sound funny but both times mine broke i found that my wheel bearings where loose causing a side load on the drive flange...
 
snappy said:
This may sound funny but both times mine broke i found that my wheel bearings where loose causing a side load on the drive flange...
Click to expand...

I will check both sides to tightness.
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There is a good thread on Mud where a guy broke twice with a FF rear on the Con
He used 7/16 allen head cap bolts. There was also discussion about adding two stronger studs.

Probably go that route since the ARP studs will be over $100 and my time on a drill press doesn't cost me anything. The 7/16 will be almost free in comparison.

Glad I have a spare axle and don't have to fight the broken one.
 
mine done the same thing recently the bolts all came out with a pocket screwdriver b/c it was just a shear i slapped it toger with my spare stuff but i really like the 7/16 idea i am going to try it on my trail spares
 
After further research on Pirate and Mud and a few lengthy phone calls I have the brown box Santa bringing me a set of Front Ranges ARP studs.

Gotta be ready for the first ride of the year at the Flats :D
 
frankenyoter said:
After further research on Pirate and Mud and a few lengthy phone calls I have the brown box Santa bringing me a set of Front Ranges ARP studs.

Gotta be ready for the first ride of the year at the Flats :D
Click to expand...

What did you find out in your further research?
 
Seems like their are two types made by ARP.

The ones sold by Low Range are the TG version. TG version comes with new cone washers, lock washers, and nuts. These even with locktite will loosen according to the all knowing "they". When these break, guys go to the 7/16 bolt mod.

The Front Range version comes with some type of lock nut (one side is round and the other is out of round slightly). You reuse your cone washers and only need to purchase a small flat washer. According to him, Toyota went back to a flat washer, as the split washer spreads and clamping force is lost. Front Range told me they have never had a call back about their studs failing. I inquired about the 7/16" mod and he got into how the cone washer is the lock washer and distributes the force as low as possible. He didn't think that a bolt would hold (you may be able to torque more but he theorized it not holding) the clamping forces as good as the cone washer.

I searched the interwebs and all of the ARP failures I read about were the TG ones. Everyone who ran the Front Range version had good things to say. "They" check torque on steering arms and hub bolts before each ride and apparently the Front Range studs don't loosen up.

IIRC the factory studs get torqued to 18-21 and the Front Range recommend torque is 25-30. Dude told me his are at 28.

To help me make up my mind I spoke with Low Range and TG asking the same questions about the same problems. Not nearly as an informed answer from either party.

At the end I just had a better feeling about the Front Range product. Maybe a mistake, but only time will tell.

Photos for comparison.

LR toyota_arp_2000_hub_stud_kit.jpg
FR axle-rope-057_main.jpg
 
I cut a wrench to tighten them when wheeling hard, most of the blame goes to a few loose. Lock them down with red locktite and I bet it helps. Me and a friend of mine would walk around in the mornings at a toyota event and half of the bolts would be loose on 20 trucks!
 
I looked into doing the 7/16" bolt mod a year or more ago, but the Sami wheel hub is scalloped out between the lockout mounting bolts, so there isn't enough material there to increase the size to 7/16". I've got a set of Yota axles to put under my Sami, and will probably modify them to use 7/16" bolts due to how cheap it is.

I don't think most people know that a Sami lockout and a Yota lockout are identical except for the inner gear that fits over the end of the stub shaft. That gear can be swapped out too.
 
If it were me...and being that I am a machinist....I would pin the hubs in addition to using bolts. Sure, if it did break it would probably take out the wall area around the pins, but it would take some of the shear load from the bolts. That might would be a last resort as I'm sure you'd rather have 6 broken bolts than one hub that's busted all to hell.

Although, if it had 6 pins between the 6 bolts, it would probably work fairly well.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
If it were me...and being that I am a machinist....I would pin the hubs in addition to using bolts. Sure, if it did break it would probably take out the wall area around the pins, but it would take some of the shear load from the bolts. That might would be a last resort as I'm sure you'd rather have 6 broken bolts than one hub that's busted all to hell.

Although, if it had 6 pins between the 6 bolts, it would probably work fairly well.
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One fella over on Pirate did this to his. I may go that route if/when more hubs break. Looks stout for sure. I hope that ARP studs and keeping an eye on the tightness eliminates this problem. I guess that if nothing gives on the hub or axle shaft, then the next place to break is the third and that is even less fun.

Your Hot Dog Guy! said:
I cut a wrench to tighten them when wheeling hard, most of the blame goes to a few loose. Lock them down with red locktite and I bet it helps. Me and a friend of mine would walk around in the mornings at a toyota event and half of the bolts would be loose on 20 trucks!
Click to expand...
I can see red locktite on the steel hub side, but would you use that on the locking hub side too?
 
I have had this happen to me a few times but each time it has been a neglect to do regular bolt tightening. The 12mm nuts get loose which causes the studs to break. Never had all of them break at once though.
 
frankenyoter said:
One fella over on Pirate did this to his. I may go that route if/when more hubs break. Looks stout for sure. I hope that ARP studs and keeping an eye on the tightness eliminates this problem. I guess that if nothing gives on the hub or axle shaft, then the next place to break is the third and that is even less fun.


I can see red locktite on the steel hub side, but would you use that on the locking hub side too?
Click to expand...
Dam right, it's thread lock.....not weld! Frank, I think you remember me from Tellico at the GSMTR.
 
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