making (or buying?) threaded rod ends

RatLabGuy

RatLabGuy

You look like a monkey and smell like one too
Joined
May 18, 2005
Location
Churchville, MD
I need a set of threaded rods to put heims in both ends to use as steering arms. Threaded 5/8 on either end.
Option 1 - tap/thread 3/4" tube on both ends. I don't have the tools, eps the L-hand tap, to do this.
Option 2 - buy 1" tube and threaded inserts like this
5/8-18 Threaded Tube Inserts for 3/4 Round Tube
and weld them in.

I can weld but not great. I'm sure it's easy to overheat those ends so it won't thread properly.
Are there any tips to this, or good reading material?

Or - any shops I can just order the threaded rods from at a reasonable cost? For somebody w/ the tools this would be a simple job.
 
If you use inserts, plug weld them.
 
When I weld my inserts in, I plug weld them and then welded the bevel on the end.

I usually coat heim with antiseize and install. Make the welds. As soon as I finish welding, I unscrew the heim and immediately cool it in cold water.

The heim acts like a heat sink while welding and prevents thread distortion.


The only time I've welded the inserts in without having the heims screwed in, it was nearly impossible to reinstall the heims. I had to take a 1.25" fine thread bolt, and cut it to make "clean out" tap.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I need a set of threaded rods to put heims in both ends to use as steering arms. Threaded 5/8 on either end.
Option 1 - tap/thread 3/4" tube on both ends. I don't have the tools, eps the L-hand tap, to do this.
Option 2 - buy 1" tube and threaded inserts like this
5/8-18 Threaded Tube Inserts for 3/4 Round Tube
and weld them in.

I can weld but not great. I'm sure it's easy to overheat those ends so it won't thread properly.
Are there any tips to this, or good reading material?

Or - any shops I can just order the threaded rods from at a reasonable cost? For somebody w/ the tools this would be a simple job.
Click to expand...

Those Barnes inserts are 3/4" OD, so if you use 1" tubing, you are only going to have 0.125" wall. I would not trust that for steering links. I would go with 1.25" OD tubing so you will have 1/4" wall.
 
Mac5005 said:
When I weld my inserts in, I plug weld them and then welded the bevel on the end.

I usually coat heim with antiseize and install. Make the welds. As soon as I finish welding, I unscrew the heim and immediately cool it in cold water.

The heim acts like a heat sink while welding and prevents thread distortion.


The only time I've welded the inserts in without having the heims screwed in, it was nearly impossible to reinstall the heims. I had to take a 1.25" fine thread bolt, and cut it to make "clean out" tap.
Click to expand...


That's good info. I made the mistake of leaving the first few joints in years ago and learned my lesson. Now I usually chase mine with a tap but this works just as well.
 
I have done the same on links but I don't cool the link in water. I also use old heims when welding. The Teflon insert in them can (does) melt while welding.
 
Mac5005 said:
When I weld my inserts in, I plug weld them and then welded the bevel on the end.

I usually coat heim with antiseize and install. Make the welds. As soon as I finish welding, I unscrew the heim and immediately cool it in cold water.

The heim acts like a heat sink while welding and prevents thread distortion.

The only time I've welded the inserts in without having the heims screwed in, it was nearly impossible to reinstall the heims. I had to take a 1.25" fine thread bolt, and cut it to make "clean out" tap.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's the kind of time I was looking for. When I did this previously, a friend welded them and just left one of the heims in, and it is permanently stuck in there.
tknopp said:
If your threading a .625 hole I would use thicker material then .750. That only gives you .0625 thousands diameter to hold the heims. I would use 1" or larger myself. I could make them for you if you like.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I may hit you up. waiting to hear back from another source. I was assuming probably 1" OD.
drkelly said:
Those Barnes inserts are 3/4" OD, so if you use 1" tubing, you are only going to have 0.125" wall. I would not trust that for steering links. I would go with 1.25" OD tubing so you will have 1/4" wall.
Click to expand...
So here is the "rub" (you'll see the pun...)
On an IFS Toyota, there isn't a lot of room between the back of the center link and the frame arms. At full lock, thick tube will rub. The OE arms have a bend in them to stay clear.
I have a set made from 1.5" .25 DOM. With everything else stock (no BJ spacers) they just barely rub, on one side I had to dish it out a little w/ a grinder. I'm going to a custom long-arm setup and the geometry is changing, but I want to be sure I have clearance so I'd like to stay < 1.25" OD and ideally 1" if possible.

I do have another set that are a pretty neat solution, it is 1" and 1.25" tubes welded together end-end w/ collars welded on the ends so the skinny end clears the frame and it has beefier tube on the end that typically bends. Unfortunately they aren't long enough :(.
 
I see. Maybe go 1" OD 0.120" wall with some 3/4" OD 0.120" wall stuffed inside it just short enough for the inserts to fit? Obviously would be better than running just the 1" 0.120" wall stuff.
 
drkelly said:
I see. Maybe go 1" OD 0.120" wall with some 3/4" OD 0.120" wall stuffed inside it just short enough for the inserts to fit? Obviously would be better than running just the 1" 0.120" wall stuff.
Click to expand...
That's kinda what I was thinking, or even slip a solid AL rod in there. Truck only has 33s so it's not like a ton of leverage.
 
broncosbybart said:
I have done the same on links but I don't cool the link in water. I also use old heims when welding. The Teflon insert in them can (does) melt while welding.
Click to expand...

I don't cool the link, just the heim.

To clarify, I make the weld with the heim installed. This keeps the weld from distorting the thin tube adapter. Immediately upon weld completion, I unscrew heim and cool the heim in water as to not melt the plastic race.

I always do 2 plug welds 180 apart at different depths, and I weld it with two beads each from 6 o'clock position to 12 o clock, turn the link 180 degrees and repeat. I'm not fancy and don't have a positioner or rollers. I only keep the heim in for the root pass.

Some I have done single pass, some are two passes. Depends on adapter and tube used.

A few I tigged the root and capped with mig. The mig hold up fine, but I had more problems with the threads on the ones I tigged.

I will say I have welded 2" .250, 2" .125", and 2.625 .625" and cut and destroyed them all to test the welds.

I really like .250" wall for steering, but if size restrains you, I understand.

What ends are you running? Heims or tre? And what size?

Maybe even run smaller diameter tube, but .250" wall, then counterbore the ends to match the tube adapter. This way the tube is only thinner where the adapter is.

Also could run solid alum as mentioned above. If I factor the price of the tube adapter, plus my time to fit, and prep everything, plus time to weld, it makes the alum stuff not as expensive, comparably.

Drill size for 5/8-18 is 37/64 or .5781

So either

1" .250" wall, and drill out to .5781 and tap.

Or

1" .120 wall, sleeved inside with .750 .120 wall. Weld tube adapters in.

Or

1" .120" wall filled with .750 solid alum, with tube adapters welded in.

Or

Buy premade alum pieces.


To me, I'd save the money buying tooling for the correct drill and taps and get the premade alum stuff.

Would Barnes offset heims help with clearance?
 
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Heim ends. Relay rod end is 5/8, knuckle end is 3/4.
For simplicity I was going to use a single sized tube and on the far end a 5/8 threaded 3/4 heim.
I've never seen premade AL pieces in the right length? Is there someplace that just stocks an assortment of sizes?
The Barnes offset heims are super cool, but aren't available in the right size, and I don't know if they'd help w/o trying one. Kind of an expensive trial.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I've never seen premade AL pieces in the right length? Is there someplace that just stocks an assortment of sizes?
Click to expand...

Branik will make whatever you want. As will Ironman Andy.
 
Mac5005 said:
I don't cool the link, just the heim.

To clarify, I make the weld with the heim installed. This keeps the weld from distorting the thin tube adapter. Immediately upon weld completion, I unscrew heim and cool the heim in water as to not melt the plastic race.
Click to expand...
And this seems like a dumb question - but if you're worried about the heat melting the plastic race of the heim, why not just use a similarly threaded bolt as the placeholder?
 
RatLabGuy said:
And this seems like a dumb question - but if you're worried about the heat melting the plastic race of the heim, why not just use a similarly threaded bolt as the placeholder?
Click to expand...

You can. The only difference is the possible thread tolerance difference between the bolt and the Heim, if there is any. I think people just use a Heim because that's what they have on hand....
 
Fabrik8 said:
You can. The only difference is the possible thread tolerance difference between the bolt and the Heim, if there is any. I think people just use a Heim because that's what they have on hand....
Click to expand...
X2. That might be a good idea for the heim companies. Sell a cheap "weld bolt" that is just a blank cut the same as the heims they sell. Maybe just a big knurled head so you can turn it in/out without tools?
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
X2. That might be a good idea for the heim companies. Sell a cheap "weld bolt" that is just a blank cut the same as the heims they sell. Maybe just a big knurled head so you can turn it in/out without tools?
Click to expand...
Also known as an eye bolt...:D slip a bolt through the eye and turn

I'd think as long as the heim MFR did their job and matched SAE spec, any high grade heat treated bolt should work.
And if they didn't, well then the world is complete chaos and unpredictable and I might as well go hide in a corner.
 
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