Monster Energy NASCAR series???

BigClay

BigClay

Knower of useless ZJ things
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Location
Winston-Salem
So I used to be a NASCAR fan, literally glued to the race every Sunday and tried to get to at least one race a year. As life took over, I can't remember the last time I watched a full race. I started to lose interest when it went from the Winston Cup Series to Nextel, and then to Sprint. So fast forward to today and I see that Monster Energy is now the sponsor?? Are they going to mandate rockstar wheels on the cars now? Maybe require flat bills on the driver helmets?
 
Let's just say that there's a lot of green on everything already. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than having yellow on everything.
 
Go fast, turn left.
 
I stopped watching when the only way to tell the difference between the makes of cars was the manufacturer's sticker on the front. I get free tickets to the 600 pretty frequently, but the only thing that can really keep my interest any more are the first 3 laps and the last 3 laps.
 
My $0.02 on NASCAR...

I worked for NASCAR teams for 20 years and while I worked for other series a well as my own racing effort, for 20 years before that, I was always a huge NASCAR fan. As you can surmise from this, I couldn't get enuff stock car racing!

That being said, after the Winston Cup era, The corporations took over. Between their absurd attempt at parity and their marketing departments, and their marketing statistics, and product representatives, (oops...I mean "drivers"), and Monday morning sponsor reports, I felt I was being bombarded with so much advertising and so little racing that even before I left racing, I stopped watching it. I would just asked, from the standpoint of how our cars performed, "how did we do this weekend"? I hated trying to watch... "the Spit Cup Series, Widget Wonder Inc. 500, brought to you by Tree Frog Beer, and Wonderyear Tire, the official tire of NASCAR" live, from Daytona. I felt so overwhelmed by the advertising hype and the fluff of "The Three Wide Life" crap, I just shut myself off from it. Sadly, watching Redlyner's parody of racing, with the "hair Gel" and "tire shine" is so funny to me because it is exactly how it is!

Most of the modern drivers in NASCAR suck. They ride around for 450 miles while NASCAR sells product. Then one of the puny fuckers falls out of the seat, causing the "big wreck". And you get 10 laps of "racing" after watching this crap all afternoon! But, most importantly, they are articulate and handsome. Their "Butt Creme Dodge was having a great day running 27th, until we got caught up in the "big wreck". We easily had a top 30 finish in the bag!" bullshit wears me out! (A top 30 finish??!!!?!??! Really?!??!?!) Doesn't that sound familiar?

And to exacerbate the situation, Engineers have so over thought and tried to quantify everything about the race car that even the best Drivers, Both of them, (LOL!), cant take advantage of their talent to win races. An example...I thought Kasey Kane was potentially the best race car driver of his era. But he really never did shine at Evernham. I understood why, when I heard an Evernham engineer say, "we just need to get Kasey comfortable in our cars" You don't build drivers for cars. You build cars for drivers!!!!

Been fun reminiscing. Off of soapbox! :D
 
Never understood why it's not the Goodyear series Goodyear pumps more money than anybody into the sport.
 
UTfball68 said:
What's the saying...NASCAR died with Sr???
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I took it more as "There aint no more any good ol boys racing".It's all about the polished image.
 
I think @ol'Jeeps pretty much nailed it.

I was at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas a few weeks ago and had the opportunity to sit in on a panel presentation by Turner Sports. The topic "Targeting and Engaging the Next Generation of Fans" and Brian France was one of the panelists. His take on where the sport is going was intriguing, but the one thing it lacked was addressing the quality of racing and competition. It was all about numbers, social media, marketing and fan engagement. At the end of the day, they nailed it. That is the next generation of race fans. Likes, shares, mentions etc in social media. Kudos for them tackling that generation. But the competition fucking blows already and if its anything like Supercross when Monster got knuckles deep in Feld's ass after their title sponsorship, it will all be about the spectacle and leave competition to the side.

I'll continue going to Darlington and Bristol when I want to get hammered with my buddies and watch cars go in circles, but when I want to see some real auto racing I'll go to my local short tracks and road courses.
 
i don't mind watching the road courses but the circles just wear me out.
takes a real driver to do good on a road course. i'd much rather see the german
touring cars or any of the british road course series races.
seems like nascar is slowly falling to the wayside.
 
ol'Jeeps said:
And to exacerbate the situation, Engineers have so over thought and tried to quantify everything about the race car that even the best Drivers, Both of them, (LOL!), cant take advantage of their talent to win races.
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For the most part, that's crap. Give a driver a badly engineered and/or badly setup car and no amount of talent can make you win. Gone are the days of winning on "heart" alone, you need to have the talent and the hardware. You can't put a bad driver in the best car and expect to win, and you can't put the best driver in a bad car and expect to win. The level of competition is too high, it doesn't work like that anymore. A good driver can still drive the wheels off of whatever you give them, but whether that's competitive within the given field is a different matter.

If the driver is at odds with the way the team makes cars, and it becomes an issue that can't be resolved, going to another team is the only option because someone somewhere obviously hasn't got the memo. Yes, there's no reason to setup a car that the driver hates, but that's part of making a good relationship. If you don't have that relationship, part ways.

I'm one of those engineers though, so my viewpoint may be different.
 
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Fabrik8 said:
Give a driver a badly engineered and/or badly setup car and no amount of talent can make you win. Gone are the days of winning on "heart" alone, you need to have the talent and the hardware. You can't put a bad driver in the best car and expect to win, and you can't put the best driver in a bad car and expect to win.
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Thats why I primarily watch 2 wheeled racing. Stick Valentino Rossi or Marc Marquez on a mediocre bike, and they'll still be fighting for the podium if not the win.
 
anvilrubi said:
Never understood why it's not the Goodyear series Goodyear pumps more money than anybody into the sport.
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Once upon a time they did. I think all the teams now have to buy their tires. (If this has changed lately, I am open to a correction here!)

`
Fabrik8 said:
For the most part, that's crap. Give a driver a badly engineered and/or badly setup car and no amount of talent can make you win. ...
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You're WRONG!

Yea, Back in the day, Dale Earnhardt Could drive anything to a win. (a note here...I never liked Earnhardt, but he was a great race car driver!) But what little racing I have watched in the last few years, the only driver out there I have seen carry a car and win is Kyle. (there may be some others, but I havent even seen a race in two or three years!) SO real race car drivers can still carry an evil race car to the same extent as ever. You dont see it much now days cuz there arent the crop of great drivers, there once was, who can! Drivers who understand their race cars. Understand what its doing and what it's telling them, so they can change their plan constantly as the race progresses. Drivers now days depend on spoilers, splitters, and cookie cutter aerodynamic packages to compete. I know these things because I worked for a Factory Test Team and saw these things happen again and again at so many tests. Drivers who wont drive a car because it isnt perfect. IMHO, Engineers in NASCAR have done nothing to forward the sport. (except maybe safety) They have only contributed to the sorry state of "packaged cars" that almost any one can drive...not win...but can drive! (Danica, are you listening?)

Infamous1 said:
Can you get me into a race? "I don't know, let me see if I can pull some strings!" Lol
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Just bring money. (And hair gel :rolleyes:) Bring a sponsor. They will let you drive. For a while anyway. (remember when Roush hired a driver who brought Consolidated Freight in with him. Then fired the driver after securing a working relationship with Consolidated? :shaking:) In the words of Buck Baker as he was fishing for his next check at his driving school..."YOU GOT MORE RAW TALENT THAN ANYONE I HAVE EVER SEEN!"
 
ol'Jeeps said:
SO real race car drivers can still carry an evil race car to the same extent as ever. You dont see it much now days cuz there arent the crop of great drivers, there once was, who can! Drivers who understand their race cars. Understand what its doing and what it's telling them, so they can change their plan constantly as the race progresses. Drivers now days depend on spoilers, splitters, and cookie cutter aerodynamic packages to compete.
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There's a difference between a bum setup and a bad car. I don't think you're giving the current crop of drivers enough credit though. The level of competition at the pointy end of the pack is very high, the talent is very high, and the engineering is very high too. It's extremely rare to find big gains in any area, and everything is a matter of refinement, and because of this there are no hero drivers because everyone is so close to the same level of power, aero, talent, etc.

It seems like you miss the good old days, and I understand that, but you're discounting a lot of good talented people because there is no more low-hanging fruit for drivers to exploit. It's very carefully orchestrated, as you well know.

If a driver started destroying everyone in a back-of-the-pack car, they would soon have a seat at a front of the pack team, for a lot more money. The systems resets itself.


Teams buy the tires from Goodyear currently, yes. They're all warehoused and inventoried.
 
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I think the difference in what Scott is saying between then and now is this (at least the way I'd word it)

In today's NASCAR there are certainly different levels of operators.
In yesterdays NASCAR there were different levels of drivers.

Engineering, simulation and modeling have now determined the absolute best way around the track. The cars are set up to run this best line and the drivers skill at mimicking the computer and operating to those parameters determine their success.

In the old days that was done in a drivers head and his ass. And frequently he made up the best line as he went along. Now there is lift and stab training. Then that was on the driver.

Two stories I think illustrate my point better than any jargon I could ever type.
1) In the 70s a friend worked for a Cup team and they were testing at the now demolished Ontario speedway in California.Back then Ontario hosted both Indy and Stock car races, a true oddity in those days. As fate had it Buddy Baker found himself finishing up a stockcar practice session when an Indy car session was starting. Fascinated by the speed of the open wheeled cars Baker stood around and watched them run for about an hour. Eventually a deal was struck for him to run some practice laps in the open wheeled jet. He said he took the first few laps slow and got comfortable with the car and lap 3 he really hung it out. He said by lap 4 he was grinning ear to ear and like a kid in a candy store at this rocket on rails. As he rounded turn 4 of lap 5 the entire team was running down the front stretch and waving their arms like crazy and he quickly shut her down not knowing what was up. Buddy was used to driving an ill handling heavy stock car and muscling it thought he turns. He had just completed two laps each more than 2.5 seconds faster than the pole lap or fastest speed ecorded by pro open wheel drivers. Why did they shut him down? He wasnt hitting his marks. He was muscling the car so hard the chassis was flexing and he was creating yaw that wasnt engineered into the car at that time. The engineers of the day swore that at any moment either a tire would fail or the car would break apart killing him. Buddy couldn't operate that machine but "Damn that fool could drive".

2) A close friend worked for RYR for many years. He talks about when he first signed Ernie Irvan and he was learning stock cars. Driving for Ulrich (I think ) at the time. He had came up on carts and dirt mods and driven bad cars all his life. He
was testing at Atlanta, before it was reconfigured and was a true oval. They said they sent ernie out he ran 20 laps.
They asked him "hows the car"
"Good" was his only reply
They made some changes. 20 more laps.
"Hows the car?"
"Good"
More changes
same response.
If the car is so damn good why are you a second slow? and why is your line all over the damn place.
Neil Bonnet was there testing at the same time and they arranged for Ernie to follow Neil. 5 laps in and he plowed the wall.
I cant follow him, the car is too tight. Some wondered if this California dude could drive a car. Some negotiations were made and he took 5 laps in Neil's car. The best 5 laps the car ran all day.
Ernie credited that day with teaching him what a fast race car felt like. Prior he used his wheel man skills to over compensate whatever mule they put him in.
 
I'll put it on if I'm in the garage and there's nothing better on..... but yeah it's one big infomercial.....
 
The real skill, training and "racing" these days is happening in the pits anyway. There are a number of former teammates of mine that are on crews in the "big 3" today. Teams wised up and realized it's easier to teach an athlete to do something inherently athletic vs teaching a mechanic how to be athletic.

If you ever get a chance to watch a race IN someone's pit, do it. The racing these days blows with the exception of most road course events, but those pit stops happening 6ft away from you is mind blowing.

I remember meeting a driver at the track a number of years ago, he had a relatively ok start to his career in legends and trucks but his career took a different turn. He has since become more of an acquaintance through racing, business and some friends. Fast forward a few years and a few buddies and I were down at CMP for a time attack event. The "Hendricks" of NASA Time Attack that season and bunch of other competitive teams were there. GTR's and STI's all purpose built cars with toterhomes and all. This same driver shows up after pulling an all nighter in his shop prepping plan A, some issues arise and he slaps his slicks on his "street" car, drives from Mooresville to CMP, makes a sight lap then obliterates his class in an underbuilt car that drove to the track and drove home. No amount of iRacing or engineering or aero package can do what he did that day.
 
1-tonmudder said:
So whatever happened to the show about Bowman Gray speedway??
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"The Madhouse" It only lasted one season, I have heard they filmed a second season but a network never picked it up. As a person that has been going to Bowman Gray for over 20 years, I loved the series and wish they would do more.
 
@Ron ...

Interesting point you brought up. My story...:)

I studied engineering at a two year college. For no other end than for my racing knowledge. Just so I could better understand the dynamics of race cars. When I was working for the Dodge Test Team. I was told, that during a particular weekend in Auburn Hills, I was to be "interviewed" for a job heading up the Truck R&D effort. I lost a lot of sleep leading up to that trip. Deciding what I would do. At that time, the Engineers were trying to create a Matrix which would quantify all aspects of a race car set up for a particular track. This could be used to pass out to all the crew chiefs prior to an event as a "cheat sheet" for setting the Trucks up. I thought about that endeavor a lot and decided that it would not work. It was my studies in engineering, in fact that brought me to that conclusion. There are far too many variables, that cannot be quantified, to make such a Matrix of any value to more than any one particular team. So at an engineering meeting at Chrysler that weekend, they were discussing this Matrix and how it would work. Springs, Shocks, Bars, Weights, and Aero. The meeting finally came around to me and it was my moment to make or break my "Big shot". I paused and then stated outright; "This wont work". There are too many variables that cannot be quantified. Driving style. That week's tires. Weather. And, among other things, the fact that "there is more than one way to skin a cat" attitude of about all crew chiefs" at that time. I didn't get the job (surprise!:rolleyes:). But at that moment, the "Matrix" died. Never heard of it again. (I did work on that R&D team for 3 more years.)

What really made up the best racing teams? I believe Talented Drivers, with great working relationships with their Crew Chiefs. (Eg; Jeff Gordon + Ray Evernham) The ability to communicate what the car was doing and what it needed each different race. (Yea, you need resources for the best equipment you an buy. But the rules should limit this!) Terms like, Anti-Squat, Roll Centers, Anti Dive, Ackerman, Understeer, had been around as long as Racing, and the Best Crew Chiefs and Drivers understood these things (One of the best drivers when it came to race car dynamics was Alan Kulwicki. Hmmmm... A two year Engineering Tech Degree!) This is why I said that the attitude of "we need to get our driver comfortable in our car" is backwards! (This idea, in fact, may work in Indy Car, where the cars are so hi-tech, they almost drive themselves! [Danica, are you listening?])

Stock cars have always been big ol cheated up, over weight areodynamic pigs, on small hard tires, 1965 chevy truck rear suspensions, Hotchkiss drives, A-Arms, and multi piece steering systems, that really never "handle", equipped with all the Horsepower we could make, (inside and outside the rules!). ( As someone called em..."souped up family cars"!) So I feel that is what made Stock Car Drivers Great. While the quest to make them handle was never ending and changed each week, they had to drive what they had to work with. It was always a series of compromises. I believe engineers seem to think they can create stock cars in the image of Indy Car. The spirit of Stock Car rules would...and should...never allow that to happen! Nothing against Indy Car. And I love Formula One technology. But, I felt Stock Car racing needed to remain "Stock Car" racing. No splitters, no spoilers, no air dams, to make them "handle better". Keep the formula the same where the biggest difference between teams was, in fact, the driver!

Ron said:
....1) In the 70s ... Buddy couldn't operate that machine but "Damn that fool could drive"....
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If you ever pay attention to the vintage stock car races they show sometimes from Talladega. Watch the "wall cam" coming off 4. There is some great footage of the leader, Baker's, (and other's) cars coming off the turn with the rear wheels off the ground where the track drops away from the hi bank to the flat tri-oval! Great stuff!
 
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