NC Public School system

I don't think you (Brent) have ever met my son Daniel but most all people that we come into contact with say how good of a kid that he is. He's polite, upbeat, responsible, but still a kid.
He's in 4th grade this year and so far we haven't had problems. 2nd and 3rd grade were pretty hard. The teachers (especially 3rd grade) could not handle him. I met and corresponded with them, the principle, and the TD teacher constantly. I went to class, lunch, whatever I could think of to make the situation better.
He is a gifted student and can ace many tests without ever seeing that type of work before. He is in the same class with the non-English speaking minorities. I know that he was bored a good bit. The TD program in place here has one teacher in his whole school who is responsible for his and many other's needs. I have a friend who has a master's in education and is a gifted student teacher and she has helped me a LOT in dealing with his teachers.
I've come to the conclusion that you get some good teachers and some bad ones. Stay very involved, write letters to the principle and copy the teacher and vice-versa, make her accountable for her actions regardless of the type of teacher that she has.
And yes, the teacher should be checking her progress especially when she knows that she has trouble completing her work in class. How long can you keep her on task without redirecting her every so often?
Teachers need to realize that the kids are still kids and do require adult supervision and guidance.
 
Rich, like you said, he knows the work, but the teacher can't seem to reach them in class.

I sit there at home with her doing homework and she plows thru it all getting it right. I leave the TV on purposly to try to distract her. that way I can correct her and teach her to consentrate. Her biggest problem is reading. I've sat there and listened to her read an entire book, but she'll turn around and get stuborn and act like she can't. a few "words of encouragement" like I'm gonna haul your butt off to bed right now if you don't read this, and off she goes reading. give her all the "atta girls" and "I knew you can do this" and she's bouncing off the wall with encouragement.

So if she does it for me at home, why can't the teacher get her to do it at school?
 
RQ said it well, make them accountable, at the same time, be accountable yourself.
I think Websters defines teacher, as one who teaches
Some have forgotten that
The best teacher uses what ever to get to a student, everyone does not learn at the same pace, or in the same way.
the movie Mr Hollands Opus is a good example, he used rock and roll
 
If they need a belt, get them one. If they refuse to wear it, use it on them
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I like that alot.

I myself am relatively fresh out of school, still in college. I was that kid that was bored because of the slow pace. Fortunately, it caught up with me in 1st grade. I will never forget it, but all I remember is this: I was 29 days behind on my work. The teacher had finally contacted my parents, and they were very upset with me, told me what the consequences would be if I didn't make up the work. The teacher set me over to the side of class and I finished the work in 2 days. If I remember correctly, that made the folks even madder because they knew it had been me slacking off. Im sure I got to know the belt for a while that evening. From then on, that teacher would give me extra assignments to keep me busy, and got me involved in the AIG program.

In second grade, I had a teacher that wasn't really even doing the minimum, and after talking with parents of other students who had her, my parents had me transferred to another teacher. This is something that might be worth considering.

Ive had 3 or 4 teachers that really challenged me with workload, and they ended up being my favorite teachers.

On a somewhat related note:
I have never been one to do homework. I made it all the way through my freshman year in college without ever doing anything outside of school except papers/projects. Then, it kicked my butt in college. It is extremely difficult to learn to do homework when you are 19 years old. Since, Ive discovered all it takes to make good grades in college is going to class and doing your homework, but I enjoyed the freedom of college (not having to go to class and optional homework) my second year and it caught up. Since college is becoming more and more expected, it is good to get your kids in the habit of doing homework and studying outside of school.

I guess my general point here is that if my parents wouldn't have gotten involved, I would have fallen farther and farther behind, and certainly never been in the AIG program. Im just echoing everyone elses sentiments.
 
mbalbritton said:
yes that is what I mean. They are affraid of over steppingbounds of what they can and can't do without hurting the feeling of the kids and getting parents in an uproar about it. I personally feel that if a kids embaressment infront of his/her peers keeps them inline... well, there's nothing wrong with a little humility. It's keeps us all in check I think.
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Caver Dave said:
I'm guessing he means they can't legally reach out with the wooden yardstick and whop the troublemakers across the neck, ruler to the hand, or paddle to the @$$... like it used to be in Americas school systems and for hundreds of years at home!

Corporal punish DOES work! Ask any thief in India!... Or that little punk they caned for vandalizing cars! You can bet it only took ONCE! :D

I got my @$$ tanned with a belt/hickory switch at home & a wooden paddle (sadistic looking things too!) at school... and can honestly say I don't recall any I didn't deserve :flipoff2:
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I'm sorry, but I disagree with you both. You've got to maintain the dignity of both the student and the teacher, and embarrassing or physically harming a child doesn't do that. We're not teaching these kids just the 3 r's, but how to function as adults in society. If I model how to embarrass and belittle a child in front of a whole class, what does that teach the child and the children around him or her? For one, the child will only grow angry with the authority figure and not take any responsibility for what they've done. They will just know that they were humiliated and that an adult brought that upon them.
Now, I got the paddle as a child at home, not at school. Guess where I was better behaved...school. I can remember being whacked on the tail, but couldn't tell you what I did. I can remember a respected teacher saying how disappointed they were in something I had done, and I can give you the exact details of what transpired, 20 years later. One taught me to fear the paddle in my father's hand, the other taught me a life lesson on what is the right choice to make.
You all can call me a softy, but I've got 10 years in the classroom. I've been the guy that, at times, used sarcasm, embarrassed kids, and made rash and harsh punishments that did nothing but teach a child to hate school. I invite any of you into my classroom to see how you can maintain a learning environment without fear and intimidation.
Oh, and 6'3", 230lbs helps too:flipoff2:
 
Got some ideas

Hi guys,

I am posting from my husbands login. He told me what was going on so I thought I would add my two cents. I am liscenced K-6 Elementary education, 6-9 Math, 6-9 Science, 6-9 LA, 6-9 SS, and I have my AIG (k-12) liscensure. This is my passion. I currently teach middle school 6-8 Advanced math, Pre-Algebra, Algebra and Geometry. Last year I was fortunate to work in an elementary school half of the day with K-2 kids. I rotated through 21 different classrooms helping teachers challenge their students and offering enrichment/ critical thinking lessons to the students. (You see the good, the bad, and the ugly this way) I agree with alot of what you guys have said. I can see in my mind examples of students, parents and other teachers both good and bad examples. I have been teaching in the NC school system for 8 years. I was originally in a really rural area (1 stoplight in the entire county) and now I teach in a school system that houses multiple Marine Corps bases. I also worked in Maryland with students from K-6 and taught 2nd and fourth.

I want to get more to the point:

Call your child's teacher up, schedule a face to face conference and ask if she can try a few modifications: (This is a teachers job (to ensure the safety and education of all students in their care)

1. Move her closer to the teacher (Not the teachers desk necessarily, wherever she happens to spend most of her time in the classroom).

2. Make sure she is visible, not stuck off in a corner

3. Invest in a timer, give it to the teacher, (the teacher generally knows how long an activity should take their individual students to complete) ask her to set it during the sessions your child is completing independent work. If the buzzer sounds before she has completed the work, the teacher needs to assess whether enough time was allocated or if time was wasted. If time was wasted, their needs to be a consequence in place. If she finishes in the allocated time she needs to get a reward whether it be a sticker, words of encouragement, or a small prize (if you need prizes/ stickers to supply the teacher, oriental trading is an excellent company, very cheap). (My son is in 1st grade, he tries to pull this stuff, he is currently working with this strategy. They have a bracelet classroom management system based of positive reinforcement. They start each day with three bracelets, if they do something negative, they lose a bracelet, if they do something well they earn more. With the loss of each bracelet their is a consequence (loss of one bracelet- walk with the teacher for five minutes during recess, two bracelets- five minutes walking and note home, all bracelets- walk all of recess, note/ phone call home, possible referral based on the infractions. If he has wasted time after warnings, he loses a bracelet. Losing bracelets is something he does not like- if you keep your bracelets you get stickers and trips to the treasure box.) Have you gotten a classroom management plan from her- get one and/or ask her to explain how she deals with undesirable behavior- if she doesn't have one- let me know I can give you more advice.

4. Does your daughter have an agenda book, have the teacher write a simple note, a code you can devise, etc., to let you know how the day went. If there is no daily communication, make some. Print off a calendar (microsoft publisher) send it to school with her, notes can be written down, brought home daily and you can initial. (I do this with some of middle school students now- it takes all of a minute or two, it keeps the kids on their toes, the parents informed, and the parents and the teacher is able to track behavior on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis.) At home: If it was a bad day- have a consequence. Good days- a reward. Work it up to a weekly award or do weekly and daily rewards. (I do both) Rewards: candy, individual time with the parents playing a game, a few extra minutes of TV time, and the list can go on. Trips to Dairy Queen, a toy, a day at the park (these being the larger rewards).

**Is this the first you have heard about this? I am not saying you would do this but don't go in looking to kick some butt- this could hurt your daughter- go in with the knowledge everyone has given you and make "innocent" suggestions. My son works only for positive reinforcement- negative reinforcement sends him into a tail spin. You don't want your daughter ostrasized by the teacher or her classmates. Observations are an option, but with my experience they either show you nothing because everyone is minding their p's and q's at the first sight of you or you prove to be an even larger distraction to her and the other students. Keep up with the work you are doing at home- it's great. You are sending her the right message. My son can tell you- if I don't finish my work, I have even more to do when I get home- cause if the teacher doesn't send it the internet always has activities to reinforce skills you know your child needs to progress in the curriculum. NEVER, EVER let anyone do anything to your child's self-esteem. My husband and I are about to have a conference with the PE teacher because of a "yucky" chair he uses for time-out. If any of this helps, I'm glad- if you need more let me know- I can speak with a behavioralist if I can't think of anything further.
 
shane28546 said:
Sorry, I just noticed spelling and grammar errors. Please forgive.:shaking:
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Hi Shane's wife, at least you noticed. Last week I got a printed letter from my son's TD teacher and it was so cryptyc(sp?), had bad punctuation, and spelling errors, I was appalled. This letter went out to all parents with kids in the TD program.
RED FLAG!
 
R Q said:
Hi Shane's wife, at least you noticed. Last week I got a printed letter from my son's TD teacher and it was so cryptyc(sp?), had bad punctuation, and spelling errors, I was appalled. This letter went out to all parents with kids in the TD program.
RED FLAG!
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What is a TD program?
 
TD= Talent Developement
In 2nd grade Charlotte-Mecklenburg students get tested for "giftedness". If they test positively they are put into the TD program and have a TD teacher to assist their regular teacher with their needs and also to teach them individually at times. It's a mixed blessing IMO.
If the TD teacher is not dynamic then it seems that effort is wasted and the children get frustrated. On the other hand we, as parents, have more resources to access for our child's education.
My saving grace is that I have a good friend who is a TD teacher and she coaches me as I need it to work the system to get the best impact during our school year.
 
well, yesterday they started something that we're going to try. It's a prgram of rewards. she has an opportuity to get 4 stamps each day. if she gets 4 stamps each day there's a reward at the end of the week. I don't mind rewards for good behavior so much as I do if it turns into bribes for doing what you're suppose to. and what happens when this stamp and rewards system ends. it has to end or be pushed out at some point. Does it become "well, no more rewards, guess I don't have to pay attention anymore."

Then again, I guess we as adults that participate in the Christmas bonus and raise program at work can't be too hipocritcal of a rewards concept. Same goes for owning your own business, I work harder/smarter I bring home more pay.

At any rate, Maddie seems excited about it, and was proud to bring home her first day report of 4 stars (max amount). I made certain to ask her when I got home how many stars, and ask her this morning how amny she's gonna get and how she's going to get them.

We'lll see how this does, at any rate, she seems excited about it.

Thanks for all the thoughts, good thread!

Brent
 
mbalbritton said:
well, yesterday they started something that we're going to try. It's a prgram of rewards. she has an opportuity to get 4 stamps each day. if she gets 4 stamps each day there's a reward at the end of the week. I don't mind rewards for good behavior so much as I do if it turns into bribes for doing what you're suppose to. and what happens when this stamp and rewards system ends. it has to end or be pushed out at some point. Does it become "well, no more rewards, guess I don't have to pay attention anymore."
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Interesting point. Check out this article on that very subject (written by my h.s. health teacher):
http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0503/lastbell.html
I do believe, though, that the younger kids need some type of extrinsic, concrete reward that gives them a goal to shoot for. Hopefully it will help your daughter maintain focus in the classroom.
 
Without jumping into a phylosophical(sp?) debate. I agree with much that has been said.

I do not however bow at the alter of the precious child self esteem..

When kids are wrong they need to be corrected. When they are right reward is OK. But they need to understand that the reward is a privelege not a right. For example my kids have chores at home and get paid "commissions" for these chores (in the real world no one makes an allowance for anyone, they pay for services rendered) howevre these commissions are a reward, if my kids decide not to do their chores, on top of no payment there is also punishment, they can not simply forego the work and forfeit the reward.

Im sorry, but there was no such thing as a positive reinforcement approach to schooling from the Great Depression thru the WWII era (greatest generation?). That was a product that began in the late 70's (albeit a very small movement in that era) and built thru the 80s to a steam roll in th 90s and today. Now look how much "better" we are.

Self-esteem management flows parallel with political correctness, IMHO.

Candor (as brutal as it may be) and Passion need to be restored.

Im sorry, there are winners and losers in life. Not everyone is the best. EVERYONE is VALUABLE, but everyone is NOT EQUAL.
This comes from ability, not class or financial status, sometimes CEOs have kids that dont measure up, sorry rich kid needs to work FOR the poor kid who is more talented. Differentiation is not a bad thing.

And we don't need an excuse for everything.
Anyone here who knows my life story (a few) can tell you I had every reason to be dead/in jail/ or strung out by now.
But I have built a nice life, nice family, and nice moral platform for myself. Not because anyone "respected my self esteem" but because the world kicked me in the teeth until I was tired of it and decided not to take it anymore.

What we need is a tougher (mentally) generation not a group crybabies who run home screaming "thats not fair" when someone else gets the job, scholarship, promotion they want.

Sorry, I went way OffTopic here. The public school system is a blessing in that in America everyone regardless of income or socio-economic back ground gets a chance to work hard, and prosper LATER in life. (granted it sucks that if you screw off at 12 it may reduce your potential when you are 50, but tough sh!t YOU still screwed up. Take responsibility.) However the system needs to be blown up and recreated.

We have a new CMS "advisor" making 125k annually, and he will most likely never see a student. yet we have teachers making 28K. We need to encourage the best of the best to become teachers to lead and train our next generation. Teaching as a profession needs to be as (or more?) noble as being a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. To do that we need to PAY teachers what they are worth, and kick out the garbage ones who became a teacher because they drank and partied 4 years of (dady paid for) college away. Didn't have a clue of a future plan and "fell" into a teaching certificate through a gov't test out program.

I would rather have 1 PASSIONATE, GREAT teacher teaching a class of 50 than a ho-hum teacher teaching 10.

Now that I have a page to myself, I will end this post and crawl off my soap box.
 
YOU still screwed up. Take responsibility.
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There's the whole issue as I see it.

Most kids today are not taught to take responsibility for their actions. It's always someone or something elses fault.
 
R Q said:
TD= Talent Developement
In 2nd grade Charlotte-Mecklenburg students get tested for "giftedness". If they test positively they are put into the TD program and have a TD teacher to assist their regular teacher with their needs and also to teach them individually at times. It's a mixed blessing IMO.
If the TD teacher is not dynamic then it seems that effort is wasted and the children get frustrated. On the other hand we, as parents, have more resources to access for our child's education.
My saving grace is that I have a good friend who is a TD teacher and she coaches me as I need it to work the system to get the best impact during our school year.
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ahh ok. In Granville county it's called AIG.
 
im here, im a student in the 12 grade. i have minor school problems, behaivor issues. i have been swept under the rug, and been promoted when i did not need to be. i was in the TD programs in elememtary school, i got set into too advanced courses in middle school, was not given the chance to grasp the simple concepts that i would need later on. that has caught up to me big time.

the problem i believe is happening, is that everyone is required to learn at the same pace, and nobody learns the same. some people have weak spots, some have strong spots. not everyone is perfect in math, history, english, etc. too many times have i seen kids being promoted, my self included, because they excelled in certain areas, and suffered in others. kids always need a fire under their butts to keep them motivated, simply saying "because your supposed to do it" does not work.

let the kids get interested in what is going on, let them have a say in what is going on. learning is not a spectator sport, it is meant to be interactive, with the whole class involved. kids learn better this way, believe me, i know. if your child is not doing well in school, ask the kid what is happening. there is probally a very valid reason for this. even at a early age, kids are aware of their surroundings, just push them a little bit. be involved with the schools, teachers, and everywhere else.
 
I did not read all the posts besides the first one simply because many of them were way to long, so if something i say was already stated then I apologize. I am now a junior at UNCC and have gone through the charlotte mecklenburg school systems. And you know what I honestly thought I recieved a great education. It seems to me it's just like everything else you get out of it what you put into it. I did my work, I respected my teachers and you know what it worked. I also noticed about 2/3's of the kids wanting nothing to do with school and always looking for the easy way out wether it be cheating, or just plain and simple not doing the work then expecting a handout when all is said and done.

Now the real question is how much can you expect from the teacher. I went through what many consider to be the worst school system and least organized in the state and like stated before I came out better. Yet as a teacher when you are faced with kids everyday that do not want to learn you can only do so much. A lot of the people that are responding to this are adults and from what it sounds like school is a different place then when you were there, kids are no longer obedient. My parents raised me to work and to respect adults and I believe that is where it really begins. If your child knows to respect people in authority then the work will be done. This is just my expierence I understand things vary but this is just one students opinion.
 
ramrock4x4 said:
I did not read all the posts besides the first one simply because many of them were way to long, so if something i say was already stated then I apologize. I am now a junior at UNCC and have gone through the charlotte mecklenburg school systems. And you know what I honestly thought I recieved a great education. It seems to me it's just like everything else you get out of it what you put into it. I did my work, I respected my teachers and you know what it worked. I also noticed about 2/3's of the kids wanting nothing to do with school and always looking for the easy way out wether it be cheating, or just plain and simple not doing the work then expecting a handout when all is said and done.

Now the real question is how much can you expect from the teacher. I went through what many consider to be the worst school system and least organized in the state and like stated before I came out better. Yet as a teacher when you are faced with kids everyday that do not want to learn you can only do so much. A lot of the people that are responding to this are adults and from what it sounds like school is a different place then when you were there, kids are no longer obedient. My parents raised me to work and to respect adults and I believe that is where it really begins. If your child knows to respect people in authority then the work will be done. This is just my expierence I understand things vary but this is just one students opinion.
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that is a very good point, but i had trouble learning, so i think i was screwed from the get-go. glad to hear you got out of CMS fine though.
 
Shane28546's wife again!

I just wanted to comment on the fact that the "No Child Left Behind" policy was created to make sure that all students learn at an appropriate pace. Teachers are supposed to make sure that students learn the appropriate material covered in their state curruiculum. If students are more advanced (TD or AIG or Over achievers) they are supposed to cover topics in more detail. Students on grade level are to learn the content outlined with as much expansion as possible in the subject area. Any students who are below grade level are supposed to be taught the content in a modified manor so as they can learn the same content material with adjustments.

I could go on for hours defending teachers (because I am one) and defending the students. It is a shame that there are some teachers who go into teaching to collect a paycheck, have their summers off, and to collect retirement. It is also a shame that their are more students in the general population who come to school without the support from school or home. Unless students and teachers are held accountable for their actions nothing will ever improve. But, speaking from the vantage point of a parent of a child who suffered through Kindergarten.....I will never let anyone ruin my child's self esteem because he swings his lunch box when he walks, etc. Teachers, parents, etc. do not have the right to ruin the self image of anyone within their care. A postive self-image is one of the MAJOR building blocks a person needs to become well-rounded, accomplished, etc. I am not saying children do not need consequences, but the consequences need to be appropriate. Encouragement has always worked for me in the classroom and at home, even if bad choices have been made. You may have to look hard sometimes, but there is always something nice to say. There is a reason they have the saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Just my two cents on a thread that ended two weeks ago. Sorry, just now got back here. I don't want anyone to misinterpret my thoughts, I just know what has worked for me, my students, and kids. I agree with many points on this thread, but I also disagree with a few as well. Hope you have a good night.

How is the sticker system working? Did you have a conference with your child's teacher?
 
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