Need Advice - Personal Responsibility vs. Negligence

Ron

Ron

Dum Spiro Spero
Moderator
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Location
Sharon, SC
So Linda and I had a long conversation about something that happened yesterday and I am now confused on what to do.

There are always a myriad of viewpoints here so I thought I might check in and get some advice.

Yesterday the UPS man ran over my dog...didn't kill him but fawked his leg up pretty bad. We live at the end of a fairly long road in a resi neighborhood. The dogs do not stay on a leash..they stay in my yard or the neighbors who loves them and calls them and feeds them treats etc. The dog was hit right where my driveway and the street meet. The driver came and told us about it, we took the dog to the vet he has some new hardware and my wallet is 1600 lighter....probably never be able to swim well again with a metal rod in his leg...but we will see.

My first thought, well we dont have him on a leash the UPS man hit him told us about it no big deal.

Wife's take: The UPS man always drives too fast (our street is a 15mph road) and has thrown gravel up turning into/off the drive several times. The vet is convinced the dog was rammed not ran over and that the impact was mush faster...not saure how much of an expert he is.

Wife think we should at least call UPS and file a complaint so it is recorded and if the driver makes a habit of it it will perhaps stick out. I dont want any action by me to potentially cause someone to lose their job in this economy. So..in my driveway does thee US man have a responsibility to slow down and avoid my dog, or is it my dogs fault for not staying out of his way...

What say ye, NC4x4
 
I think it needs to be noted on his personal record with UPS.
 
If it was your child you wouldn't be asking.

File a fawking complaint.
 
I say chalk it up to personal responsibility. Roaming dogs aren't reasonably controlled. Had it been anyone else but the UPS guy, would this even be a question? I also woulda never laid out the coin at the vets, my rule of thumb is if the vets bill exceeds the cost of a replacement, they'll be put down.
 
UTfball68 said:
I say chalk it up to personal responsibility. Roaming dogs aren't reasonably controlled. Had it been anyone else but the UPS guy, would this even be a question? I also woulda never laid out the coin at the vets, my rule of thumb is if the vets bill exceeds the cost of a replacement, they'll be put down.
Click to expand...
So a $8 bottle of wine and a cheap movie be a good replacement vaule for a kid? I know alot of people that there dog is the kid and there is no replacement vaule on them.
 
I wouldn't but my point of view is keep your dogs leashed or fenced if you don't want anything to happen to them. If my dog gets out of the fence I would never hold anyone responsible for killing it. I live on a small dirt road and my neighbor who doesn't leash there dog has had 2 run over by speeding cars. There response was guess I should keep them up but they still don't today. When My daughter is old enough to play outside I plan to take personal responsibility one step higher and grade some nice speed "bumps" in the road.

IMO its probably better your dog was rammed rather than run over by a 10k+ truck or you could be digging a hole today. I say he did the right thing by telling you and you should mark it as a loss and let it go. I'm hard pressed to say speeding is negligent as we all do it and unless its in excess but then I guess that leaves the door open of what is excess.


:popcorn:


EDIT: For the people saying what if it was your kid, it wasn't, and roaming kids are like roaming dogs. You either need to watch them or teach them to watch out for cars no matter where you are. Its not like the UPS guy went out of his way to run his dog down it was a loose animal that I'm sure ran into his path.
 
speeding

I live at the end of a road (15mph) just like you ,in a residential neighborhood...and my UPS guys fly into my driveway too.....if it was me I'd file a formal complaint to UPS AND a civil action against him personally (esp if he has a history of speeding).....my 2 cents

"Jeff B If it was your child you wouldn't be asking.

File a fawking complaint." X2
 
File a complaint. if its in your drive, the UPS driver has a personal responsibility to uphold. On a public street, it is personal responsibility but it falls partly on you...

But, in your driveway, he is entering YOUR property. If he can't be responsible while driving on your property he should park his van at the street and walk the package to your door...

Hell, send UPS the bill... If he had hit your car, kid, mailbox, etc. that would be claimed wouldn't it? Pets are considered personal property. Pushing the law a little, but he damaged your personal property on your property with his vehicle, similar to him hitting your mailbox or even your front porch...
 
250krawler said:
I wouldn't but my point of view is keep your dogs leashed or fenced if you don't want anything to happen to them. If my dog gets out of the fence I would never hold anyone responsible for killing it. I live on a small dirt road and my neighbor who doesn't leash there dog has had 2 run over by speeding cars. There response was guess I should keep them up but they still don't today. When My daughter is old enough to play outside I plan to take personal responsibility one step higher and grade some nice speed "bumps" in the road.

IMO its probably better your dog was rammed rather than run over by a 10k+ truck or you could be digging a hole today. I say he did the right thing by telling you and you should mark it as a loss and let it go. I'm hard pressed to say speeding is negligent as we all do it and unless its in excess but then I guess that leaves the door open of what is excess.


:popcorn:


EDIT: For the people saying what if it was your kid, it wasn't, and roaming kids are like roaming dogs. You either need to watch them or teach them to watch out for cars no matter where you are. Its not like the UPS guy went out of his way to run his dog down it was a loose animal that I'm sure ran into his path.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.
 
First off Ron I am very sorry about your dog being injured. Tough lesson for both you and your wife, and him.
I think I would file the complaint. I don't see it as something to be ignored. What if it had been a small, slow moving child? 15mph speed limit is slow, and from what I have witnessed from UPS guys, they are always in a hurry and never go that slow.

Good luck
 
A little more info a few may be missing.

I live in the sticks.

The road I live on is 3 miles and has 4 houses on it. I have 10+ acres...I choose to live here so my dogs can can run free among other reasons.

Again I am just glad he is ok...just curious if I was pussing out on this.

Ben,
I am going to choose to largely ignore your comment and just say this. If my dog was bleeding to death and a non friend/relative human were at the same time I would help save my dog. Frankly it would be a tough call with some of the family, especially the in-laws.
 
If my kid or dog is hit on a public street, thats my fault! if they are hit in my driveway by someone that is habitually heavy footed, thats their fault!


And, we all know UPS drivers are ALL heavy footed! I see it in Hickory, Cary, Raleigh, Wilson, Greenvile, etc. I'm sure SC UPS drivers are the same as NC ones...
 
UTfball68 said:
I also woulda never laid out the coin at the vets, my rule of thumb is if the vets bill exceeds the cost of a replacement, they'll be put down.
Click to expand...


I guess everyone is different...

less than 2 years ago I spent nearly $4,000 on my 10 year old lab that had a torn ligament in his knee. Never even considered what you mentioned.

within the last year we spent over $6,000 on my wife's cat who was diabetic and going through heart failure just so he could be around for another year and be comfortable and not suffer. He was 14.

excessive? Maybe, but the animals are part of our family, much like our children and we treat them as such. Ron is the same way.
 
You could be opening a door hear. 1st thing we need to know is does your county or area that you reside in have a leash law?
If so you could be held liable for any damages to the UPS truck for allowing your animal to roam free. You may not agree w/ this, but insurance companies can and do go after homeowners or thier homeowners insurance for this.

2nd, need to consider what harm would it do if you called UPS and not file a complaint but just ask what would they be willing to do to assist you with the vet bill?
 
snappy said:
So a $8 bottle of wine and a cheap movie be a good replacement vaule for a kid? I know alot of people that there dog is the kid and there is no replacement vaule on them.
Click to expand...

I understand some folks have that attachment to their animals, I was eluding to the fact that I can be a cold hearted bastard when it comes to animals. My opinion, it's an animal, it can be replaced for a fee, it's your responsibility, if something happens to it, shoulda been watching it closer. The way I see it, they're no different than the deer I load my freezer with, except for the fact someone decided to domesticate the dog instead. I do love dogs, I have 4 currently (all inside), and my mother adopted dogs and trained all while I was growing up, so it's not like I have a vendetta against them.

Ron said:
Ben,
I am going to choose to largely ignore your comment and just say this. If my dog was bleeding to death and a non friend/relative human were at the same time I would help save my dog. Frankly it would be a tough call with some of the family, especially the in-laws.
Click to expand...


That's fine, your situation is your situation. And I will say my tone would change if this incident was in fact ON your property. That said, I have a question for you, if your dog is in the middle of the road and it's hit, and it's not the UPS guy, are you paying for the damages to the vehicle??????

Also...I think if the delivery man's driving habits were an issue, they should have been mentioned before, not retroactively and out of spite because he hit your dog.


Edit...I'd also like to say, I am sorry for your situation...caring for something is caring for something, doesn't matter what it is. I wish your dog a quick and speedy recovery.
 
Accidents are unavoidable. The UPS driver should exercise due caution in the performance of his duties. Some do, some don't. I don't know your area. Where I live dogs should not run loose. If it was my dog at the end of my driveway, it was my fault. Your case may be different. In any case I would make UPS aware of the incident. My 2.
 
Damn, Ron, sorry to hear this. I know how much your dogs mean to you.

If the dog was hit where your driveway and road meet, then I say file the report. He was on your property and not running wild in the streets. It is the driver's responsibility to be aware of his surroundings and mindful of pets, children, etc. He failed to do this and it should be brought to UPS' attention, IMO.
 
I would ask... Would any other car/vehicle would have also hit your dog? or it just happened to be the UPD guy?

Dogs who chase cars and trucks ultimately end up getting hit.

Be careful how you deal with UPS, they may ultimately pay, but they may also stop delivering to you.
 
bowtieman55 said:
I think it needs to be noted on his personal record with UPS.
Click to expand...

x2

The UPS delivery men drive too fawking fast. They ran over and killed my neighbors dog who practically lived with my wife and I.
 
250krawler said:
I wouldn't but my point of view is keep your dogs leashed or fenced if you don't want anything to happen to them. If my dog gets out of the fence I would never hold anyone responsible for killing it. I live on a small dirt road and my neighbor who doesn't leash there dog has had 2 run over by speeding cars. There response was guess I should keep them up but they still don't today. When My daughter is old enough to play outside I plan to take personal responsibility one step higher and grade some nice speed "bumps" in the road.

IMO its probably better your dog was rammed rather than run over by a 10k+ truck or you could be digging a hole today. I say he did the right thing by telling you and you should mark it as a loss and let it go. I'm hard pressed to say speeding is negligent as we all do it and unless its in excess but then I guess that leaves the door open of what is excess.


:popcorn:


EDIT: For the people saying what if it was your kid, it wasn't, and roaming kids are like roaming dogs. You either need to watch them or teach them to watch out for cars no matter where you are. Its not like the UPS guy went out of his way to run his dog down it was a loose animal that I'm sure ran into his path.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Chock it up to one of those things that happens, and go on with life.

and for 'the argument' (not directed to argue, just saying for sake of giving my opinion):

- pets=/= children. keep your kids out of the road, and teach them to 'live' safely. I got my ass kicked for getting too close to the road as a kid.
- dog wasnt on leash/in fence, so there you go.
- guy was nice enough to tell you about it
- many people speed... and what if it were not a UPS driver. If someone's dog runs into the road when im driving by, I dont want anyone expecting me to foot the bill if i cannot safely avoid hitting it.
- you chose to pay for the dog's vet bill (harsh line, but still. if you love your dog then you're going to pay whatever it takes, amirite?)

STRONG CASE FOR DOG INSURANCE:lol:
 
Thanks for all the feedback...still not sure what I am going to do but it did spark a good debate.

One fact left out is kids play in this street and the street is not a county road.
The road is just shy of 3 miles long and used to be a gravel drive way. The homeowners collectively paid a few years back to have it paved (I dropped right at 7500 on this myself) and my land is on both sides of the "road"...my kids play ball games in the road. We have neighborhood cookouts in the road. It is a 1 way in 1 way out no thorugh traffic. On a normal day my house which is next to last gets 1 mail visit I leave and I come home the retired guy at the end may or may not leave that day. Heck his dribeway is the road it ends right at his house and he parks there.

It is not like he was in a traditional road, as a matter of fact the underground fence runs under the road and we allow the dog to be on both sides of it...

Anyway at least he is ok. Money comes money goes...I'll make the dollars back.

We are moving next month and the new house will have just shy of 5 fenced in acres including a pond just for my labs...hopefully he can swim again soon.
 
Ron I understand about him being part of the family. I now have three labs, and have to have a sitter just to go off wheelin. I have also dropped some big coin on vet bills, just to save a friend. I have also had to make the difficult choice of putting one down. But if they can be fixed, and lead a good life, then, yeah, I'd do the same.
So where's the new home? close this way??? I hope
 
1 mile down the road..
 
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