Need opinion on how to resolve a board transaction

Ron

Ron

Dum Spiro Spero
Moderator
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Location
Sharon, SC
I need some advice and would like to hear others opinions on a situation I am currently facing. Regarding a series of transactions that involve myself and 2 other frequent contributors here.

[My requested ground rules]
#1 I will not name any other involved parties, and I ask that they not interject in the thread. If there is any dispute regarding the facts I post please PM me or a mod and I will edit the thread accordingly. I do not want opinions of people (good or bad) to bias the thought process.

#2 I do not want this to turn into a flame war.

Details:
In January of this year I purchased a 350tbi motor from another board member for the tbi set up.
According to that person said motor was running when pulled and had no known issues. (I have no reason to doubt this assertions)

I removed the TBI set-up and resold the motor two weeks later in February, (with a new aluminum intake) to another board member who intended to put a propane set up on and run this engine. The buyer made one trip out inspected the motor and then returned a week later to purchase. During the transfer we pulled the dipstick and the oil was brown and normal.

The purchaser was not very familiar with SBC applications and had concerns about it compatibility with his tranny set up etc.

I assured him it would work and said if there are any problems let me know, and I would be glad to help any way I could. And that if it would not work for his app. I would buy it back in as sold condition.

Plans change and the buyer decides to go another route with his project. He sells the motor and during the sale I answer questions for perspective buyers.

Fast forward 3 months to last week I receive a PM saying the motor has been sold to a 3rd party (not one of the PMs I exchanged relaying my knowledge of the motor). This 3rd party has disassembled the motor and found water ( approximately a half cup judging from the pics) standing in 3 cylinders. And there is considerable pitting of a valve and the cylinder head whch is now disassembled at this point.

The purchaser asks if I am still willing to refund his money for the engine.

Dilemna
At this point is where my request for advice comes in.
#1 in changing the intake I could see the valve train (at least the push rods and the top of thee valves, and it was exceptionally clean (the motor has ~100K on it) and I even remarked about this to the purchaser.

#2 I have no idea as to how this motor has been kept for the past 3 months, the purchaser assures it was in his garage and out of the elements. (I have no reason to doubt this)

#3 I know nothing of the 3rd party and how he has kept the motor, or why he chose to initially disassemble it. It was a complete engine minus the carb. (all the way down to alt., ps pump, ac comp, belts etc.)

#4 I honestly am curious as to if this is even the same engine. For all I know party 3 is trying to scam someone with an engine he previosuly owned. I didn't write numbers down or anything and its a sbc not a whole lot of distinguishing marks.

#5 I first and foremost want to do whats right. If I thought there was anyway that motor was in the condition it is currently in when I sold it I would immediately refund the money, but I am sure the valves did not look like they currrently do. By the same token I sold a complete assembled motor and even if I refunded the money I would get a disassembled builder in return.

I also was very clear as to my knowledge of the history of the engine.

Ok what are everyones thoughts?
Opinions?
What would you expect from all parties in this situation?

I am not asking what is legally responsible (it was sold as is where is) but I guess morally or ethically responsible.

For some reason I am having an issue with a 3rd party being involved that I haad no dealings with. Said 3rd party maybe a pillar of integrity.
I just dont know.
 
IMO you didnt sell it to the 3rd party it isnt your problem. Besides you do not know how it was taken care of after it left your possesion and party #2 possession.
 
My thoughts.. you're dealing with used parts, there's a chance of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING being wrong with said item.

Once it leaves and goes to the 3rd party, it's no longer the 1st parties responsibility. All knowledge was upfront and forthcoming.

You can;t bare the burden of parts for life, so where does it end? You offered the "warranty" to your buyer, not everyone after him.
 
This engine has been passed around like a cheap prom date....you cannot be responsible for the motor & it's care/storage that far down the line.

One bad ride in the back of a truck or left out one night could possibly do this water damage.

It's cool you're being concerned, but not your fault as I see it.
 
I feel that you have no obligation to this person, morally or ethically. You even extended yourself to help out the #2 party when they were looking to sell it, since you had some greater knowledge of it. If you went over the engine and don't recall there being water in it, then I would go with your gut (seems like you would remember a fact like that). All you can attest to is the condition you kept it in and the condition you were TOLD that party #2 kept it in. I feel that you should tell party #3 that you are sorry but your offer for a full refund was only to party #2 and that is was for as sold in condition, not pieces.
 
Your responsibility ends with the 2nd party. The 2nd party can not extend your warranty to the 3rd party.

Note: This is my feeling on the moral/ethical side. Of course legally your responsibility ended when you said, "As is."
 
Ditto X 3

Also to add, if it was a complete engine,
and all you did was change intakes,
and the push rods were still intact,
and the rockers were on,
the only way the water could have gotten into the cylinders would be if it had been run,
All of the cylinders(3 in question) could not hold water up in the head unless it was stored on it's side or upside down. in which the water could not stand in there because the valves could not be all closed at the same time.
or
it was stored out in the rain
also
the combustion chamber and valves would have a hard time pitting in that amount of time.
Something is missing in this equation for sure.
I have Dealt with you Ron on a few things, I am sure you represented what you sold to the best of your knowledge.
 
More of the same story.
In my mind, the guy that most recently sells something is the most responsible for it. E.g. you are responsbile to Party #2, and Party #2 is responsible to Party #3... just like Party #3 will be responsible to poor shmuck #4 and so on. You have already shown your integrity by answering questions and helping out #2, many/most folks would not even do that.
I believe the general code of conduct is with used parts, once the buyer removes it from your possession, it's his problem. Any help provided from the seller from then after is only on the good faith of the seller and should not be expected.
 
Your original deal was with the original buyer, once the engine was sold to someone else, no longer your issue. It was with the 1st buyer, not 2nd or 3rd. You've no idea where or how the engine was stored after it left you, I'll echo everyone else's comments, you have no obligation.
 
"forgetaboutit" not your problem after the fella sold it
 
Since you know for sure the valve stem wasn't corroded when you had it, it's not your responsibility for what happened once it left your house.

I'd tell him "Sorry, it wasn't like that when it left here"
 
See previous 13 posts.
 
SkyHiK5 said:
The purchaser asks if I am still willing to refund his money for the engine.
Click to expand...

Hell No....I can't believe the guy even asked.

It sounds like he is just trying to take advantage of you.
 
yep, not ur problem.. just like it is not the problem of the guy YOU bought it from, etc.

Issue exists between current owner and person he bought it from...

someone, somewhen stored it outside, may have been way back when it was in a 'running' vehicle that got stuck outside for 6 months, engine bay open, snow drifts blowing in and they had the valve covers or intake or whatever off..and rebolted to it later...

but someone, somewhen is perhaps being a bit less than 100% accurate, but doesn't sound like you are that one.
 
x20....buyer #2 should consider himself lucky that you were being so generous with him. buyer #3 should be talking with him.

I myself feel that I have been burnt a few times buying used parts that may not have been exactly what I expected, but it is up to me, the purchaser, to check them out before I hand over cash.

remember, most junkyards will only guarantee that parts are used and removed from a junked vehicle.:flipoff2:
 
Personally, I think buyer #3...who it seems you and #2 are the only ones who know who he is...is trying to pull on over on you.
I also think he should be identified so the rest of us can steer clear.


Matt


btw- you have no obligation....just like the other 20 er so said.
 
vanguard said:
Your responsibility ends with the 2nd party. The 2nd party can not extend your warranty to the 3rd party.

Note: This is my feeling on the moral/ethical side. Of course legally your responsibility ended when you said, "As is."
Click to expand...

not entirely true. It is possible to be held legally responsible even if it was something he didn't know about. Lack of knowledge doesn't completely eliminate liability, as is my understanding with my little study on contract law.
 
Okay, just the time line alone is enough to give you no responsibilty. YOU bought it in January. You sold it only a few weeks later in February. The one who bought it from you apparently had it much longer until he sold it to #3. Did #2 at any time disassemble it? If not, then where did HE store it, and for how long?

And the fact remains that when it left YOUR hands it was intact other than the parts you removed, and apparently replaced with something else that would prevent water damage, correct?

So sorry, not your problem more than five months later, in someone else's possession. And here's something else. You agreed that you'd buy it back from #2 if he decided he didn't want it. So why'd he sell it to someone else, anyway?
 
Update

Alright, thanks everyone for confirming my mind set.

I have spoken with party #2, he understand sand is being a VERY heads up guy about the whole deal.

He has agreed to buy back from buyer #3 and I guess keep for a future rebuild at this point.

It sucks, because he is now stuck with something he cant use, and I feel for him.

Even though I am 100 comfortable how it left my possession I still feel for his situation.

Thanks for all the opinions and the words of support tossed in as well.
 
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