OT- Why do we place no value on others time, knowledge and experience?

Ron

Ron

Dum Spiro Spero
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Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Location
Sharon, SC
I can't be the only one this happens to.

As many here know I am Sales Engineer for a large electro mechanical equipment manufacturer

I just got a nasty email rely from a contact because I would not help him design his business needs so he could go out and buy used equipment at an auction. I will withold the details out of respect for his privacy but this is a gentleman who needs failry complex and expensive equipment but is too cheap to pay for it. He has emailed me and members of my team no less than 20 links to equipment auctions asking us to evaluate these used equipment items for his usage. Finally this AM I sent him a polite, although failry abrasive, email explaining that we were in the business of designing, selling, installing and servicing this equipment. Not in being a free consultant to adivse him on purchases from third parties. I explained that his entire approach was flawed as he is trying to cut corners on something he can ill afford to cut corners on, especially given some specific contracts I have knowledge of him having. I explained our engineering and field service rates and advices that we would be glad to help him in the future provided that he issues a PO either for engineering services or for field service technician to perform a field inspection. I alos offered to design and price any new equipment he may desire...of course he didnt appreciate either offer.

I just dont get this though. My knowledge and expertisre is my product. It is what I am and what I do. I would never drive my car into a a body shop and just expect the guy to smooth out a fender just because mine has a ding and he is a body man. I would never walk into a restaurant and just start eating food expecting it to be free, because I am hungry. Yet everyday of my life people call just expecting me to donate services to their cause.

If it is approached in the right way I will always offer assistance especially on the chance that it may eventually lead to a future customer, but there comes a point in time where it goes from friendly assistance to being taken advantage of, and without exception when I have to have a conversation like the one this morning it is always received as I am an asshole (Ok I am. Ill admit it. But I wasnt in this case)

Am I crazy?

Does this happen to anyone else?
 
my case is a little different, but the "expectations" are the same.(this does not refer to these forums because i offer my assistance here)
i get phone calls all the time from other shops asking how to fix something or what's wrong with something. i usually answer the questions with the expectation that they will be a future customer. it usually doesn't bother me because a lot of other shops don't want to mess with transmissions. what really pisses me off is the shops that try to repair something and then find out they are in over their head and call me for help. i have had shops call me and ask if i could come to their shop and put something back together because they couldn't figure it out.

i would say that you are not crazy, just tired of people expecting things. i have learned that being nice to people like that is beneficial to no one, especially you. i will say i have some customers that i will go out of my way to help in any way i can, but the trade off is that they send me a lot of work.
 
I am a self employed computer tech. About 10 years ago, I quoted a system, about 40 grand altogether (midlevel server, several workstations, printers, network infrastructure, etc). Client said she needed more time to think about it. Three weeks later, she calls and asked me to stop by. I figured (hoped) it was to approve my quote and proceed. Got to the office, there were boxes everywhere. She had taken my quote and bought everything item-for-item (well, if I said 24 port managed switch, she bought a switch, or a hub, or a three 8-ports, whatever worked out) mostly at places like newegg. They got it all unboxed, and realized they didn't know any more about it than opening the boxes. I said not interested now. They said name your price. I walked out.

Ran into the owner a few months later, they still didn't have anything running. He was kinda pissed. That gal's son tried to set it up, then they contracted a tech, then he walked off (wonder why?).

Now, I charge for doing quotes on big projects (well, I call it a "system design" fee).
 
I hear ya man...I was in public accounting for a little while, everyone wants tax advice or for me to do their taxes for free. Jokes on them, I hate tax accounting (I was an assurance guy)...but I usually help to a certain extent. I'm transitioning in to a finance controller role, after successfully building and mainting acquisitions my company has made...so alot of the small business owners I know are wanting me to review their books, come to their shop to make it more efficient, pick my brain and make them more money. First of all, I work hard during the day to collect my paycheck...that's alot of hours, upwards of 80-90/wk, on a good week. The last thing I want to do when I get home is do the same thing for free. My rule of thumb though, if you're sitting by my side actively contributing as much as I am, and not soley taking advantage of my skill set, because you genuinely want to better what you're doing...I'll offer a hand. The other contingency is...you better have something I want so we can barter later...you want my skill set, I'm gonna want the favor returned later, otherwise...kick rocks.

My skill set doesn't really get taken advantage of in the field, instead...friends, family, some guy that remembers the one time we met, my dog's breeder's aunt's uncle, etc. It's tough to tell the friends and family no.


I should also mention...my dad ran in to this alot when he had his tool & die business. He'd work with places to build dies, designing different stuff...even bought machinary so he could support them. 9 times out of 10, they'd use him for his knowledge, then send everything he built and created to China. He was naive and thought a man's word meant something in the business world, never wrote a contract or patented anything...until it was already too late.

Regardless...you did the right thing.
 
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I have a friend ( Land Surveyor ) who has recently been asked to qoute a price to put his stamp on a small engineering firms construction/permit asbuilt drawings that they surveyed in house w/o the supervision or employment of a registered surveyor. He is not about to risk his license so they can save some money. They have used his surveying services before, but now have bought some equipment and want to do their own surveying w/o supervision of a licensed employee and have the gall to ask him to participate in this endevor that cut's him out of doing the fieldwork/drawings himself and any profits he would normally recieve.
 
When I was at the dealer, I had sooo many other shops call and ask for advice. For fear of sounding like a douche, why would I tell them how to take work away from me? That being said, there is a difference between giving someone advice or pointers on a forum like Lee said. But to blatantly ask me to fix your car for you for free? Sorry but if you want my talent and skill, ya gotta pay me for it.
 
If I may chime in...

I learned this from Ed Howe (of Howe Chassis) many years ago. As the chassis guru of his time, he said "Ill answer anyone's question if he knows the specific question to ask." In other words I might tell a racing competitor what right rear spring I run, if he asks 'what right rear spring do you run', but I wont tell him how to set up his race car. You can't give up your knowledge. That is your stock-in-trade. You can be helpful to others, but you can't do it all for them for free.

That's what you get paid for!
 
Chip..."I have no skills, so no one bothers me."...LMAO !! You guys are not Crazy!! Most everyone here has some sort of skill or talent to bring to the table. We all help each other with our junk, but none of us could pay our own bills if we didn't make a decent living doin' what we do. Everyone want's something for nuthin'...me included...but I do have enough respect for other's to either trade out, barter or pay up whatever is fair...my money has been tighter than it's ever been, so wheeling has had to take a back burner to other things...for instance..the hefty mortgage, car payments, etc. That said...I have enough parts to build several rigs...anyone wanting to donate free shop time, let me know...I'll load up the trailer & bring to ya...call me when finished....:D I will add something serious though...what I learned in the Navy: The more you do...the More YOU DO !! you become the go-to guy.. Also a Life Lesson that applies in so many ways: ... "What you Allow...WILL Continue..." oh ya... Ol' Jeeps...about that free family cage we were talking about...I'll B in touch Bro...:)
 
If I could figure out how to charge people a dollar a minute on phone calls I'd be a millionaire! My overzealous way of being as informative and helpful as I could in my early years as a shop has been great for business and at the same time really hurt me. I answer more questions about how to work on peoples stuff than I actually get paid to work on.

I think you did the right thing. I just wish I had the heart to tell my freeloaders the same thing.
 
I deal with Network Engineers all day, that's my whole customer base. I sometimes have 3rd party installers come to me with large request for equipment and they give me a crappy description of what they need and sometimes a few helpful links. Once they get the details of what the need and actual part numbers from the quote I don't hear from them. I got burned on this twice and after putting several hours of research and late nights at the office I learned how much info I'm willing to give up without a PO. You did the right thing.

But it has paid off. I have one customer in Canada, I had been after him for months with no luck. His supplier for fiber optic cable screwed up his order in the middle of a huge infrastructure expansion project so he remembered me and called me up. He described what he needed and I knew exactly what it was and had it overnighted to him that day. I had gave this guy advice a few times and pointed him in the right direction for parts I could not supply. I guess it was worth several months of phone calls and free advice because once I supplied the fiber he needed on the spot, he no longer shops around and he doesn't care what the price is. Guy spends quite a bit of money weekly with me now. Love customers like that!
 
I feel your pain but it is slightly different. I have been in construction and automotive since highschool. When I got out of the Marines I really found my niche. I have since gone back to school aand am about to graduate with a degree in applied math. Combine my diverse skill set, and the fact that I was on the board of a non-profit, and the fact that I always assume "they would do the same for me" I had to quickly learn the difference between true friends and people who befriend you because they need something, or can "use your help", but are never there when you need them. How many times by how many different people have I been asked if I wanted to come "help" someone build something who had no tools, no skills (related to the project) and salaries at least 4 times mine? :shaking:
 
HJAlbert said:
...the difference between true friends and people who befriend you because they need something, or can "use your help", but are never there when you need them. How many times by how many different people have I been asked if I wanted to come "help" someone build something who had no tools, no skills (related to the project) and salaries at least 4 times mine? :shaking:
Click to expand...

Also, an all-to-true scenario!
 
It happens to our company as well; in times past we've spent months designing/costing a coatings system, only to have the potential customer take all of the data we've generated to another vendor and then buy from them.
 
Hurley said:
It happens to our company as well; in times past we've spent months designing/costing a coatings system, only to have the potential customer take all of the data we've generated to another vendor and then buy from them.
Click to expand...
The sad part is that if you'd charged for the initial design/info they'd have never even considered your company.


Sent from the MarsFab Off Road mobile response unit.
 
I take my previous statement back. Very often I get calls. I just simply tell them where to go!

No really!
Minton's automotive, Buckeye performance, Metalwerx, ECGS, amount others are where I usually send people.
 
You are not crazy.......people will go wherever they can get free help until the help is not free anymore. Typically those people will scour the internet for the best deal they can find and then ask us to help them when they have an issue or have a problem with what they bought. We see it all the time. I have even had people try to get me to warranty things they bought from some cheaper site or ebay.
 
Flip side of this coin...I have absolutely no problem hiring or paying for someone's time if I don't know how to do something. Hell, that's the reason I hired you, because I don't know. So in an effort to learn...or kinda sorta relay what I'm looking for, it probably sounds like 3 year old trying explain nuclear physics to the expert. But what pisses me off worse than anything, is when I pay you that good money, the fee you requested, and you act too good for my questions, or you don't have the time of day for me. I'll just move on to the next guy who will do the job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy that hovers or looks over shoulders, but I am paying you to figure out what I can't.
 
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