Parts warranty through a shop from DIY jobs

[RatLabGuy]

For those here that own/work in shops, I'm curious what your policy is regarding warranty on parts from people who bring in half-DIY things that need your work, and something fails later.

I generally do all our auto maintenance & repair work, from swaybar bushings to dropping a trans to have it rebuilt.
Every now and then there's something I can't do, like an alignment, or get a bearing pressed, or need something really scrubbed w/ a parts washer, get a tire mounted on a rim, etc, so I go to a local mom & pop place around the corner. They are a Napa affiliate, nice guys, always been cool with one-off things like this.
In May I took in a wheel spindle from my Mazda, asked them to please remove the hub, press out the bearing and replace it. Guy discovered in the process the whole hub itself was bad, so he sourced a hub too, put it all back together, I happily paid, went on with life. Well last week that wheel starts howling badly. Pulled it off, the bearings are noticeably noisy. CV had a surprising amount of slop too, so planned to replace that as well.

Took the whole spindle back to the shop, explained it, they looked it up, found it was only 5 months ago, the guys that run the front are nice and cool, but then the old guy that I guess really runs it (whom I've never even seen before) came out and gave me a really hard time about it.... "there's a lot of gray area here, I don't know if Napa will warranty it, how do I even know this is the same hub, it looks awfully used to me.." etc. He agreed "we'll handle it this time but if Napa gives me a hard time then we'll talk again". I even told him I recognize their time has value and I don't mind paying for it, he just grumbled that wasn't what it was about.

I'm just curious what the preferred way to handle this is. The way I see it, Napa warranty's the part, and the shop can warranty it. Yes its a pain for them, but I also know that the price they charged me for the bearing was about 50% more than what I'd buy it for from the exact same parts house. My assumption is that this extra is tacked on to all parts cover the occasional warranty issue, so from their side, in the long run their time/effort for the replacement has been covered. You always pay overhead on parts from a shop, I'm OK with that, it's business.
I also understand that he doesn't know me from Adam, and for all he knows, I took it home and rubbed dirt in the hub & bearing before putting it in my car. So he has no QC on the install or ensuring something else didn't kill it.
However my argument for that is that if I had bought the part myself, then Napa would still warranty the part directly with me for being bad if I walked in with it. It's not like Napa knows me either. And I'd do that in this case, but I wasn't the purchaser so I can't.

To me it isn't about the $$ paid to the shop for their time w/ the press etc, it's simply that I want the OEM to know that their part failed and get a replacement. And if, in the process of pulling out the bearing, somebody w/ more experience than me can point out evidence that *I* killed it, then that's a good learning experience which I will pay for.

So what's the consensus here?

Wow that was unintentionally long.

 

[UTfball68]

1) Usually don't do that for this exact reason, we start from scratch or nothing at all (most the time)
2) When we do, if we use your parts, we'll warranty the labor, but not the parts
3) If we order the parts and do the labor, that's basically starting from scratch...and we'll warranty labor and parts.


Doesn't matter if it's just part of a vehicle or if you drop the whole thing off.

 

[RatLabGuy]

1) Usually don't do that for this exact reason, we start from scratch or nothing at all (most the time)
2) When we do, if we use your parts, we'll warranty the labor, but not the parts
3) If we order the parts and do the labor, that's basically starting from scratch...and we'll warranty labor and parts.


Doesn't matter if it's just part of a vehicle or if you drop the whole thing off.

Just to be clear - #3 is the case here. They sourced the hub and bearing. The only difference I can see is they did not remove the spindle from the car, I did.

 

[UTfball68]

Just to be clear - #3 is the case here. They sourced the hub and bearing. The only difference I can see is they did not remove the spindle from the car, I did.

That's where the gray area would come in to play for us...good/loyal/long time customer, no issues taking in their DIY. Someone that just needs a break and doesn't have the cash to pay someone to take their rig apart...judgement call. Not one of those categories, sorry. But the point remains, if it comes in the shop, we'll at least warranty labor...and it's no biggie warranty'ing the part if we sourced it. Advanced is who our business account goes through...call them, tell them the part went bad, can see on their computer when we purchased and warranty info, and can usually have the new part delivered to the shop within a couple hours.

 

[RatLabGuy]

That's where the gray area would come in to play for us...good/loyal/long time customer, no issues taking in their DIY. Someone that just needs a break and doesn't have the cash to pay someone to take their rig apart...judgement call. Not one of those categories, sorry. But the point remains, if it comes in the shop, we'll at least warranty labor...and it's no biggie warranty'ing the part if we sourced it. Advanced is who our business account goes through...call them, tell them the part went bad, can see on their computer when we purchased and warranty info, and can usually have the new part delivered to the shop within a couple hours.

So just for the sake of discussion - why does it matter whom the customer is, or even who took it off the car. The part failed, and can be warrantied. You are a reseller of the part, you then support the warranty, and tack on an extra % to cover that cost for yourself.
Is it because there is more labor involved in reclaiming/replacing the part, and you see it as YOUR labor is not being warrantied because it wasn't done wrong?

 

[RatLabGuy]

And I'm curious, in a small shop like this, assuming the mechanics are paid via time on job, not flat rate hourly, who gets stiffed - the mechanic, or the shop overhead? I'd think it should be the shop overhead.

 

[Ron]

So just for the sake of discussion - why does it matter whom the customer is, or even who took it off the car. The part failed, and can be warrantied. You are a reseller of the part, you then support the warranty, and tack on an extra % to cover that cost for yourself.
Is it because there is more labor involved in reclaiming/replacing the part, and you see it as YOUR labor is not being warrantied because it wasn't done wrong?

No silly.
Its because they could have made more profit off you by providing more labor. They now have to teach you a lesson.

 

[UTfball68]

So just for the sake of discussion - why does it matter whom the customer is, or even who took it off the car. The part failed, and can be warrantied. You are a reseller of the part, you then support the warranty, and tack on an extra % to cover that cost for yourself.
Is it because there is more labor involved in reclaiming/replacing the part, and you see it as YOUR labor is not being warrantied because it wasn't done wrong?

Primarily covering the shop's ass for any other issues. It prevents the 'remember that bearing you pressed on for me, yeah, now my car won't start. What did you do wrong?' scenario.

 

[rockcity]

I wouldn't expect them to warranty labor but should honor the manufacturer's warranty on the part. However, sometimes those warranties require installation by a professional...

 

[RatLabGuy]

However, sometimes those warranties require installation by a professional...

Right, and that's where I wonder about.
So is the right thing for me to do is to offer to pay for their labor to re-install it? I understand that. But then, isn't that why they charge a huge markup on the cost of the part already?
In this case, it's not a lot of $$, and my relationship w/ a local guy, and doing the right thing is more important than the $$. I just want to understand what the norm is - or should be.

 

[rockcity]

Does the place have a retail space and sell parts or is it just a shop that you had them donthe work with their existing shop inventory?

 

[UTfball68]

and my relationship w/ a local guy, and doing the right thing is more important than the $$.

I'm not quite following this comment, are you saying you value your relationship with the guy and don't want a few bucks to get in the way...or are you saying the shop owner should value you enough as a potential repeat customer that he shouldn't care about the money.

If the first...if anything overpay, he'll remember it...and you'll be able to use it to your advantage for a while. If the latter, businesses operate to make money...nothing more, nothing less. If I had a nickel for every time someone offered to do me a solid and accept discounted work because it would be a great opportunity for experience, or that they'd be a great source of advertising, I'd be a very rich man. If I accepted their offers, I'd be a very poor man.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Does the place have a retail space and sell parts or is it just a shop that you had them donthe work with their existing shop inventory?

They have a retail space - kind of, lots of fluids, additives, fuses, wiper blades, stuff like that, but also sells tires, I'd guess most of their retail work is tire related. I don't think they really sell Napa replacement parts over the counter.

 

[Tim C]

At the shop I work at if you supply the parts there is no warranty what so ever. If we get the parts for most things it's 1 year warranty. Technically in your case it would be covered BUT if you just brought a knuckle and no the car what's to say you didn't bring the knuckle off your wife's car this time.

If you just brought the knuckle last time we may or may not have put which vehicle it was for on the invoice.

We try not to even get involved with stuff like this usually unless it's a real good customer because it can come back to haunt you later.

As far as the price goes, when I call NAPA for a part quote they'll tell me my wholesale cost, and retail price. Due to the volume of parts we buy each month we get something like 20% off walk in price so if you could get the bearing for $100 I can buy it for $80. The list price may be $160 which is the suggested retail price from the manufacturer. Some shops may mark up the part 30% above their cost, others use the list price. The markup on the part of course helps the bottom line, but in this case it also helps on the warranty job because most of the time the NAPA warranty doesn't cover the labor. Our NAPA will give us new parts for warranty no questions, but if we want to cover labor too we have to fill out paperwork, send it off, argue with them over the labor times because their book never matches ours, etc. It's usually easier just to eat our labor to keep the customer happy.

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[GotWood]

A different business, but....


I sell hardwood floors and installation. If you buy the complete package from me I will repair/warranty any problem you have as long as there is not neglect on your part (humidity, abuse, etc).

I will install the wood you purchased from Big Box Store. I will warranty any installation error that occurs (never happened). If you call me and the boards split or finish is bad that's not my problem. Call the Big Box Store and talk to them. Explain who installed it and that I charge to remove and install the floor again. If they want to fight you I can give you the number of a NWFA inspector who will come out and write a report for a fee. If it is determined to be my fault (never happened) I will pay the inspection fee, replace the materials and labor for free.

If you hire me to finish the floors that you installed yourself (my preferred method) and there is an issue of any kind I'm going to ask 1 question. "Has the finish come off of the floor?". If the answer is "No" my next response is let me know when the problem is resolved and I will charge you to refinish the floors.

 

[BIGWOODY]

We'd warranty the part, nothing else. I have no issue with people bringing their own parts to my shop, but here's what happens a lot. Car comes in customer has their box of ebay parts, we disassemble and begin to work, customers parts are wrong, now my lift is tied up while jackass tries to save $50.Not a huge deal at my shop because we have 6 bays and 5 lifts. I generally charge the absolute hell out of someone for labor when they do this. The other common scenario is their parts fail or won't fit right because it's Chinese garbage or used and no good, they end up paying labor twice and then have to pay up for the correct part, we laugh our ass off and ask "I wonder if he's saving money yet?" All this to the side if you buy a part from me, I'll honor whatever warranty is on it, be it a year or lifetime. But know when you do this to a shop you end up paying more labor than you would if you let them do the whole job turn key.
I'll also add another scenario that always make me laugh and this happens a lot , misdiagnoses by Johnny backyard mechanic. This happened last week; Guy calls and says he's got some parts he needs replaced, he has the parts. Brings me a thermostat, water pump, auxiliary water pump, and a heater valve all pretty damn expensive even on fleebay. He never asks for a diagnoses or even tells me that there is a problem. I put all that crap on, hand him the bill for a lot and then he says, "so my heat should work great now?" I say yes and I noticed the fuse for the heater valve had blown, so I replaced it for no charge. Again, is he saving money yet?

 

[RatLabGuy]

At the shop I work at if you supply the parts there is no warranty what so ever. If we get the parts for most things it's 1 year warranty. Technically in your case it would be covered BUT if you just brought a knuckle and no the car what's to say you didn't bring the knuckle off your wife's car this time.

If you just brought the knuckle last time we may or may not have put which vehicle it was for on the invoice.

We try not to even get involved with stuff like this usually unless it's a real good customer because it can come back to haunt you later.

As far as the price goes, when I call NAPA for a part quote they'll tell me my wholesale cost, and retail price. Due to the volume of parts we buy each month we get something like 20% off walk in price so if you could get the bearing for $100 I can buy it for $80. The list price may be $160 which is the suggested retail price from the manufacturer. Some shops may mark up the part 30% above their cost, others use the list price. The markup on the part of course helps the bottom line, but in this case it also helps on the warranty job because most of the time the NAPA warranty doesn't cover the labor. Our NAPA will give us new parts for warranty no questions, but if we want to cover labor too we have to fill out paperwork, send it off, argue with them over the labor times because their book never matches ours, etc. It's usually easier just to eat our labor to keep the customer happy.

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Thanks for the perspective.
I understand the concern about trust, and possibly bringing in a different part. However I'd think that, at least in this case it would be hard b/c you have to replace it w/ the same part, and it's ordered according to the vehicle, it would have to be the rare case where I was getting the same part for another identical car. How many people have multiple matching vehicles? (of course I have 2 toy trucks that are somewhat interchangeable...)
That's in part why I'd rather make it a point to be nice, friendly and up front w/ these guys. Which leads to

I'm not quite following this comment, are you saying you value your relationship with the guy and don't want a few bucks to get in the way...or are you saying the shop owner should value you enough as a potential repeat customer that he shouldn't care about the money.

If the first...if anything overpay, he'll remember it...and you'll be able to use it to your advantage for a while. If the latter, businesses operate to make money...nothing more, nothing less. If I had a nickel for every time someone offered to do me a solid and accept discounted work because it would be a great opportunity for experience, or that they'd be a great source of advertising, I'd be a very rich man. If I accepted their offers, I'd be a very poor man.

Definitely the first. This is literally the local guys around the corner from my house. We are on the edge between suburbs and rural and a pretty friendly area where a lot of folks know each other. I've been in there for a lot of random stuff, and the guys that run it up front know me at least by face, and recognize my beat up ass Toy truck. Beside the local Chinese take-out we get food from all the time.

For example I also have a set of lower control arms I needed to clean off (getting ready to cut and extend them to make long arms). They were pretty dirty and I was going to pick up a big bin to soak in cleaner while I was out. While I was in there I asked if they had a parts cleaner and would do that for me? Sure. I ask how much? $20? $30? .. He says, I dunno, how about $25? So I just left them there, they cleaned them up, called me later when they were done.
Sure I could have cleaned them myself, but at that point I figure my time on getting that job done is getting short, and I'm sure that's easy cash for somebody.
When I picked the arms up, made it a point to pay cash. No tax on the transaction... one of the front guys asked if I knew about the bearing situation, they pointed out their guy who is "really good w/ the press" isn't in until tomorrow and they'd rather make sure it's him to press them back it to be sure it's done right. I tell them, fine no problem, I'll swing by tomorrow.
So yeah, I'd rather be a friend on good terms. Saving $$ is important but only on a larger scale than this.

 

[UTfball68]

In your scenario...I'd see no harm in it and would see the relationship as mutually beneficial. But there's a difference between you, a guy that that's obviously wrenching on his own stuff...and Chaz, that lets you know he 'did his online research'

 

[RatLabGuy]

In your scenario...I'd see no harm in it and would see the relationship as mutually beneficial. But there's a difference between you, a guy that that's obviously wrenching on his own stuff...and Chaz, that lets you know he 'did his online research'

Right. And frankly I'm sure it's that the old guy that sits in the back (I'm guessing the boss) don't know me from Chaz.
Damn grumpy old guys... (Cue my visualization of you and @BIGWOODY as that guy in 15 years )

 

[Tim C]

Also you could have caught the guy just in a bad mood. If you'd have been at my work Wednesday morning I'd have been that pissed off guy. Or this afternoon actually, I really hate northstar caddy's.

Also make sure the CV nut gets torqued if you didn't do that last time. If you just hammer it tight with an impact you'll be doing it again again. One of the other guys at the shop was just hammering them on with his new snap on 725 gun. We had about 8-9 come back within a year. Boss's son though.

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[BIGWOODY]

Right. And frankly I'm sure it's that the old guy that sits in the back (I'm guessing the boss) don't know me from Chaz.
Damn grumpy old guys... (Cue my visualization of you and @BIGWOODY as that guy in 15 years )

I'm that guy now….I started at my shop at 20 going to college and pushing a broom, 26 years later I still go to work in the same place. With a 5 and a 7 year old I'll be there at least another 20 as long as the Krauts keep building cars that are overly complicated and fall apart.