Philmont hocked

kaiser715 said:
Boy Scouts mortgage vast New Mexico ranch as collateral

They are winning.

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Sadly, I'm afraid that the Boy Scouts of America has done this to itself. There are so many aspects of the BSA that are nowhere near where they used to be that aside from the uniform and name, it'[s hard to tell its the same organization I grew up in. Had they stayed true to their own law - a Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent - then no outside forces would have entered in. There would be no way for a unscrupulous Scoutmaster or other adult to take advantage of Scouts to even risk the lawsuits they are dealing with. Trustworthy and Reverent used to mean something. Now, they seem to be running scared, afraid of how deep this really is.

They are also fighting a cultural war that secular society is winning because organizations have stopped standing up for what they believe in. I think this is what you are referencing when you said, "They are winning". Because of the PC environment, the Scouts don't want to risk offending anyone, so they have caved in some of their basic beliefs. Our Scout troop was based at a church, and as such, the church had some say in who was allowed to join and who was allowed to command. While it was very Christian-like in their approach, by encouraging at-risk kids to join, they also kept very close track of those kids and had a solid grasp on the leadership. Out of myself and my two brothers, we all were Scouts, but only one reached Eagle. I could not advance past Star because the of the swimming requirements (I hated swimming - intense irrational phobia). Both of my brothers have become Scoutmasters of their kids' troops because there was nobody else willing. Most of the other parents see it as just another club that their kids are in and only show up if there isn't anything else going on that night. They are both very frustrated with Scouts and ready to throw in the towel. One of them went to Philmont two years ago - I'd be curious to hear his views on this.
 
Like anything other news report, take it with a grain of salt.

The Boy Scouts are getting hit with some short term financial issues and it's true some major donors have pulled back funding. Given these problems, leveraging your debt vs. capital rate makes sense. The alternative would be to raise dues for current members to an unreasonable and unsustainable rate.

As for the current increase in dues, the cost is more than reasonable for this kind of youth program. If you have kids in martial arts, gymnastics, etc, the cost of scouting is almost laughable in comparison.

Unfortunately, we can't all laugh off the fact that we often spend more on Starbucks or lunch out with our work colleagues than on a month worth of Boy Scout dues. The people who are getting hit the hardest are those that need the opportunities of scouting the most. Boy Scouts of America has worked hard to ensure that scouting is open to everyone regardless of their finances. Without the donations and with the burden of legal fees and higher insurance, it will be harder to offset expenses for those that don't have the means available to pay dues and give their kids the experience of camping and learning to be an outstanding citizen, follower, and leader in life.

I for one am working hard to keep these opportunities open for my son and for future generations.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
Unfortunately, we can't all laugh off the fact that we often spend more on Starbucks or lunch out with our work colleagues than on a month worth of Boy Scout dues.
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That statement reminded me of something. Back when I was a Scoutmaster (86 to 93), we had one parent that came to the committee meeting and made a big stink about how much it cost for their kid to go on a weekend camping trip. The troop paid all gas, etc on the bus, so the only cost usually was food (done by patrol). Their menu, their shopping, their choice. They usually fed themselves for 10-12 bucks for a weekend. When it was my turn to feed the adults, I'd blow fifteen or sixteen bucks each, and they'd get steak on Saturday night.

I told this parent to just keep track of how much their kid ate the next weekend. Keep track of everything, and estimate the cost of their portion of meals at home, one or two mcdonald trips, junk food, cokes, etc. It came up to around twenty five bucks. He never complained again.
 
Eagle scout here. Trying to figure out where "the BSA used the ranch as collateral to secure $446 million of debt with J.P. Morgan Chase" aligns with "A Scout is thrifty..."
 
ManglerYJ said:
then no outside forces would have entered in. There would be no way for a unscrupulous Scoutmaster or other adult to take advantage of Scouts to even risk the lawsuits they are dealing with.
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Looking at the Catholic Church, I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Trying to hold the gates against the forces of change does not make your organization immune to predators sneaking in amongst your ranks. In some cases, it can make you blind to the enemy within.

I can't say that I agree with everything BSA does. Frankly, I have seen a wide variance in Troops from coast to coast and overseas. My son gave up scouting for a few years because he didn't like one of the Troops where we lived. I can definitely say my nephew's Troop in Portland, Oregon is VERY different from our Troop here in Fayetteville. When you look at the international organization of scouting, things get very interesting.

My point is that Sir Baden Powell meant for scouting to be adaptable and inclusive. I agree that there are core values of scouting enshrined in the Oath and Law. I don't feel the BSA has stepped outside of those values.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Eagle scout here. Trying to figure out where "the BSA used the ranch as collateral to secure $446 million of debt with J.P. Morgan Chase" aligns with "A Scout is thrifty..."
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Think of it this way, that much collateral secured a very low interest rate at a time when rates are at a historic low. This loan secured a large sum of funds, think war chest, to battle the current issues while still maintaining consistent costs for scouts currently in the program. So, yes, it holds with being thrifty. Thrifty means you make wise long term choices to spend the least for the most gain.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
Think of it this way, that much collateral secured a very low interest rate at a time when rates are at a historic low. This loan secured a large sum of funds, think war chest, to battle the current issues while still maintaining consistent costs for scouts currently in the program. So, yes, it holds with being thrifty. Thrifty means you make wise long term choices to spend the least for the most gain.
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They have a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in debt, just with that one bank. Who knows what else. I'm all for low interest rates, but why so much debt?
 
jeepinmatt said:
They have a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in debt, just with that one bank. Who knows what else. I'm all for low interest rates, but why so much debt?
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That one, I can't answer. I don't know what their debt/asset ratio or debt/income ratios are. I know BSA is a corporation with significant assets. That's why lawyers are willing to drudge up cases and go after them for years.

This is beer math. But if BSA assets are worth $1.5B, than that debt isn't necessarily bad. If BSA has less than $1B in assets, I'd be worried.
 
That place was one of my favorite trips I’ve taken. That’s all I got.
 
I'm going to Philmont next summer with my son and a crew of scouts. Just last night, we had an trip meeting where our scoutmaster addressed this news bit. He said don't worry, it will still be there, they just opened a line of credit. Even if it goes private in the long term, it will still be there for our grandkids. Personally, I'm not sure what to make of it, but its surely out of my control.
 
They brought it on themselves. I am proud to have earned my Eagle when scouting stood for something. As far as Im concerned, they can continue down their self destruct course and just crash and burn.
 
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