Plumbing? i.e. Tank-less water heaters

Rox&Mud

Rox&Mud

CTB
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Location
Raleigh
The back story...I just got what I believe to be a ridiculous quote to replace an existing tankless hot water heater. I currently have a 16.5/yo Takagi Jr. water heater that stopped working this morning. Called a "authorized" service provider who, for what I could see did not even pull out a meter, said the unit was dead and needed to be replaced. I will admit the original plumber did not install the flush valves so that would need to be added. The original installation was inspected as part of a house addition/renovation.

The question...Anybody know what it should cost to replace an existing unit? Must the replacement meet some new codes/criteria since the original was installed?

Thanks in advance.
 
Rox&Mud said:
The back story...I just got what I believe to be a ridiculous quote to replace an existing tankless hot water heater. I currently have a 16.5/yo Takagi Jr. water heater that stopped working this morning. Called a "authorized" service provider who, for what I could see did not even pull out a meter, said the unit was dead and needed to be replaced. I will admit the original plumber did not install the flush valves so that would need to be added. The original installation was inspected as part of a house addition/renovation.

The question...Anybody know what it should cost to replace an existing unit? Must the replacement meet some new codes/criteria since the original was installed?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Is this your house? Is there any new plumbing unvolved?
If it's just a direct swap, why not just buy a unit and do it yourself? Is thsi a case where you just want a pro to do it?
 
It is my house, there will be a little new plumbing for the flush valves. My particular unit has been discontinued. I'm not sure that the current version of the same brand is a direct swap. I plan to contact the company to see if there is a direct replacement but the current model appears to be somewhat different based on my research. While I'm competent with most construction trades, plumbing is one I've never done. The heater is also in the attic where a leak would be a bad thing and space is at a premium. It appears that a new, comparable, unit would be between $550 and $1000-ish depending on brands.

I am really just wondering what a reasonable cost should be for this.
 
I got a quote a couple months ago for a ranai tankless heater (new, remove existing hot water heater, run gas line, install outside unit, pull permits and inspect) total was $3,500. I have been meaning to ask if this price seemed reasonable....seems high to me, but there is a decent amount involved.
 
Check for a rebate with your gas company. From what I understand the previous owner of my house did that and got a pretty hefty rebate from the gas energy company.


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Because there's a few types of units for most of the brands out there, like condensing and non-condensing, direct vent, power vent, different sizes, etc., there's a lot of context missing here about cost. Many of the units come with flush valves pre-installed, or the flush valves come in an install kit. Flush valves are cheap, don't be concerned about flush valve cost.

So it's probably down to the install, and what is required to change between your existing install and the new unit, and what size/type of unit it is.

Get a few quotes, and look at a few brands. There's not a lot of install difference between similar types from different brands (sometimes the inlet/outlet fittings change from top to bottom), for example most of the condensing units within a certain size range can use 1/2 or 3/4 gas line and 2 inch or 3 inch PVC vent, depending on the installed lengths, so there's not really any reason to go with another Takagi if you want to try another brand/model (Bosch, Navien, Rinnai, Rheem, Noritz, etc).

I've been looking at a huge amount of this stuff myself in the last few months, so I've got a handle on what's out there, but I'm only looking at the high-eff condensing stuff because the venting is super easy. Almost everything in that arena is $900-1500 for the unit itself (without built-in recirculation) plus install plus install parts/accessories. Non-condensing is usually significantly cheaper, so that may be the way to go if you've got traditional divorced or concentric vent instead of PCV/CPVC vent, if you want to save money on the unit and the install.

There are some rebates, but they're not huge and they may depend on what type of unit it is. Might save $300, depending.
 
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What is the power source? If electric, maybe they have to upfit the lines and all??? Ask for an itemized quote. That should tell you what you're looking at. Don't be afraid to get some more quotes. I like to get 3 for this type of thing.
 
Well after much research, it appears I have a plan. The first quote I had was $4500 which is why I was wondering what I should expect. The unit will have to be moved to a new location so I've got to do some minor construction to make that work. I found a local plumber who will do the labor for less than $1k and I'll buy the heater. Still a lot of $$$ but at least it should be installed in such a manor that the next time it will be easier to replace.
 
Please continue to update, this is something I'm considering whenever my current water heater kicks.
 
Rox&Mud said:
Well after much research, it appears I have a plan. The first quote I had was $4500 which is why I was wondering what I should expect. The unit will have to be moved to a new location so I've got to do some minor construction to make that work. I found a local plumber who will do the labor for less than $1k and I'll buy the heater. Still a lot of $$$ but at least it should be installed in such a manor that the next time it will be easier to replace.
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Be aware that you will likely lose all warranty if it's purchased from someone else than an authorized distributor/installer (some manufacturers only care about the authorized installation), and you may lose eligibility for gas company rebates. Piedmont Natural Gas, for example, requires that you use someone in their installer network. You should still be eligible for Federal energy rebates, if I've read the fine print correctly.

The warranty issue isn't necessarily a big deal, because you usually have to pay for installation labor for warranty-covered parts, and the labor probably is greater than the parts cost if you're looking at calculated risk... Worst case, if something shits the bed it may be cheaper to buy another one online and just pay for the swapover labor (if identical/interchangeable model). I saw a bunch of "I bought it online and then found out the warranty was voided" stories, which is really the only thing that made me pause a bit, and the warranties for all the major brands have similar boilerplate or don't really specify who qualifies as an "authorized retailer".
 
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you can alos install yourself and have it commissioned/inspected by a licensed authorized person. They have to honor this under Federal law...
 
The local plumber I'm using is an authorized installer/service provider (different from the folks that wanted $4500) for the brand I bought so I should be good on the warranty. Like you say the warranty is only going to cover parts and I'd be paying for that any way. The one I currently have was never serviced for 16.5 years and was still working fine until the PC board fried. It couldn't be serviced annually anyway because flush valves weren't installed. Thanks to Takagi's tech support team I was able to determine the issue was the PC board. I could have ordered the PC board and had the unit up and running for about $200 but since the original install wasn't right I decided to put the money into a new unit and have the flush valves installed so the new one can be serviced. When I looked at Dominion's rebate I didn't see anything about having to use any specific company, it only asked for the installer info. It appears that Dominion is offering $150 rebate for any tankless water heater with an EF of .80 or higher. https://www.psncenergy.com/docs/librariesprovider6/pdfs/appliance-rebate-form.pdf
 
@shawn No, I had contacted him Monday and sent him info but he didn't call back until about an hour ago. When I talked to him today he said he was kinda behind the eight-ball. He sounded a little relieved I had someone else doing it.
 
shelby27604 said:
@Rox&Mud when your install is done, let me know if you are happy with the installer....I am pretty close to needing a new install myself and I am also in the Raleigh area.
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Well, the new water heater has been installed over a week and is working great. In the end I spent a little less than $1400 (Takagi tankless $579 and $797 on labor/valves) on the whole project. I now have the isolation/flush valves and it should be to code. Basic Plumbing out of Garner is who did the install. Locally most of the plumbers I spoke with, including Basic, wanted to use Navien brand heaters. In my case, for a model with comparable specs to what I had, Navien was almost twice the cost as well as physically larger. Given my space constraints, I went back with Takagi. It had over a gallon higher GPM than my original at almost exactly the same physical size. I purchased the Takagi off the web myself so I didn't have any mark up there from the plumber. I could have supplied the valves too but I assumed Basic would provide those. In the end the valves cost me about $5 more than if I had ordered them myself. There is a $150 rebate from Dominion Energy for any tankless heater with a EF .80 or more.

I did all the wood work in the attic to create more room under the heater for the valves, proper clearances and a level support for the pan.

This is what I started with.
IMG_1901.jpg


This is how it was looked when it was done.

IMG_1927.jpg


IMG_1930.jpg
 
Rox&Mud said:
Well, the new water heater has been installed over a week and is working great. In the end I spent a little less than $1400 (Takagi tankless $579 and $797 on labor/valves) on the whole project. I now have the isolation/flush valves and it should be to code. Basic Plumbing out of Garner is who did the install. Locally most of the plumbers I spoke with, including Basic, wanted to use Navien brand heaters. In my case, for a model with comparable specs to what I had, Navien was almost twice the cost as well as physically larger. Given my space constraints, I went back with Takagi. It had over a gallon higher GPM than my original at almost exactly the same physical size. I purchased the Takagi off the web myself so I didn't have any mark up there from the plumber. I could have supplied the valves too but I assumed Basic would provide those. In the end the valves cost me about $5 more than if I had ordered them myself. There is a $150 rebate from Dominion Energy for any tankless heater with a EF .80 or more.

I did all the wood work in the attic to create more room under the heater for the valves, proper clearances and a level support for the pan.

This is what I started with.
View attachment 323251

This is how it was looked when it was done.

View attachment 323252

View attachment 323253
Click to expand...


No condensation drain at the top where it attaches to the flu? My tankless required one unless you could slightly angle the flu down. Mine was on an outside wall so that was not a problem. Otherwise condensation can drain back into the unit and damage the coils.
 
tsconver said:
No condensation drain at the top where it attaches to the flu? My tankless required one unless you could slightly angle the flu down. Mine was on an outside wall so that was not a problem. Otherwise condensation can drain back into the unit and damage the coils.
Click to expand...

That one looks like a non-condensing. No drain needed.
 
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