Pre-payment and lead time for ordered parts

RatLabGuy

RatLabGuy

You look like a monkey and smell like one too
Joined
May 18, 2005
Location
Churchville, MD
Looking for the general opinion of the community.
This is NOT intended as a gripe or bash-the-vendor session.
Just wondering whether this is considered an acceptable norm or not.

BLUF: is it acceptable for a company to go ahead and charge you for something now, when they know it won't even be started for a month or more?

Last Fri I ordered a fabbed bumper from a vendor online. Fairly well-known company w/ a presence in multiple forums, been around awhile, generally well rated etc. So not a newbie or unknown quantity.

On the site when you order it says up to 2 weeks lead time. OK, I get it, you need time to build it, ship it, maybe get more tube. No problem.

I call yesterday, 6 days after the order, to get an ETA of the shipment. I'll be away form home for awhile and want to plan ahead.
Guy tells me, "Yeah... right now we have about a 6-7 week backlog on bumpers. Having to wait for a new batch of the base plates. We're hoping to try and get through it quickly before the holiday crunch"

(I'm thinking, if you have a 6 week backlog from now you're screwed on that...)

So - I get it. Shit happens, fabbers are dependent on suppliers, you can only do so much, etc.
And you have to get $$ up front to cover your costs and keep people from backing out.
All understandable.

But it seems to me if you have that kind of delay, would it be unreasonable for me to expect an email sometime to let me know?

More importantly, is it unreasonable for me to call them back and ask if they will refund my CC until they actually are working on it? Charge me when you start.
Basically I'll going to have to pay that bill before any work even starts. Which also means that if something unexpected happens - say, another 6 week delay, or whatever, I have no recourse w/ going through my CC b/c the cycle has already passed and the cash is out of my pocket.

Or is this just standard practice? I usually just build my own shit, or go through a local fab shop.
 
Unless it's custom work, you shouldn't be billed until the item ships.


Hell, I ordered 2 buggy seats that had to be built (custom ordered) and expected to pay up front. I did and they arrived sooner than expected. It all worked out.

But if I'm expecting 2 weeks and it's 8 weeks, well then we have a problem even if it's built-to-order. I'd get a refund until the item is ready to ship
 
I don't do fab work, but I do graphic design work on my own. I typically charge 50% up front and the remainder upon completion. This is a pretty standard practice in most industries where you are dealing in custom order goods.
 
I'd personally tell him to go refund my money and if he argues he can go pound sand. I was going to order a bumper for my old 3rd Gen Runner from a vendor but the lead time always turned me off the deal. Even on a group buy. A fancy T-Case or some churched up air shocks are about the only things out there that I would expect to front the money for before they are ready to ship.
 
Honestly I have no problem with them charging me ahead of time. When I purchase something, that money is already gone in my head. If I have to wait for it, it sucks, but at least I know the money I budgeted is already gone for it and not waiting to be taken out.

I'm weird I know, and I also enjoy my tax return. :p
 
if he said 2 weeks and now 6+, ask for refund if you don't want to wait.

if he does not refund, dispute and cc co. will put it right back in your account.

easy
 
Paying ahead wouldn't bother me but they should have been upfront about the delivery lead time prior to placement of order. At the very least their order confirmation should have had an accurate lead time.
 
The problem with custom order is that he needs assurance you (after approving you will buy the product) won't back out on the sale. Most of the time (note: I said most) charging you upfront is not a malicious intent. It's that most of these businesses are not setup with sophisticated enough accounting software to bill 50% now and 50% later.

Like it or not, that is how the world turns with customer/vendor relations.

Get into construction where we don't get paid for 90-120 days after completing the work (and paying for the product) and then they hold 10% of your contract until the job is completed.
 
If it's going to be that long of a lead time, and the expected/promised/advertised lead time is much less, it's good practice to contact the customer and ask if they still want it or ask if they want to do a different form of payment (deposit, etc.).

Also, if a company grows too fast and starts outselling their production capability, then everything gets overwhelmed until they expand the business enough to catch up. That means adding more people for customer service and order support, first and foremost (if they're smart).

That said, a lot of companies have a disconnect between their order department and their fulfilment/production departments, so it's common that you'll just drop into a black hole and wonder why your parts haven't shown up when the website said they would. That's the real issue here; you've ordered something and they haven't followed up to tell you that something is different than you expected at time of purchase.

Is this acceptable from a customer service standpoint? No. Does it happen more often than not? Yes.

My normal way of doing things is to contact the company before I order something that's not an off-the-shelf part or has any mention of lead time. That way you know what you're getting into before you buy it, and whether that changes your buying decision.

I've called people and got answers like "the raw material is backordered from Germany for 10 months" or "the company that manufactures it for us just folded, and the batch made by the new manufacturer doesn't meet our quality standards yet" or "our punching machine went down and the repair parts won't show up for 5 weeks". How the company deals with these things can vary widely, but the takeaway is that if you know ahead of time, you can alter your plan. I've usually got it easy, because that's the first thing I ask about when I get the quote. Pricing comes second, because lead time is often far more important than price for my job.

Everyone is accustomed to instant internet purchase gratification, but with small companies and fabricated parts you're not always going to get things instantly.
 
To be fair, I have since noticed that on the site it does say, "Call for turn time". So it's not like they didn't try, or that I wasn't clued in (I of course did not bother to call first).

Blaze said:
Honestly I have no problem with them charging me ahead of time. When I purchase something, that money is already gone in my head. If I have to wait for it, it sucks, but at least I know the money I budgeted is already gone for it and not waiting to be taken out.

I'm weird I know, and I also enjoy my tax return. :p
Click to expand...

I operate the same way. The minute I click ,"order", that money is gone. and I NEVER buy anything now that I don't have the $$ to back up payment for now, even though the CC bill payment can be 4-6 weeks lag.
The rub is that since I always pay off my CC bill every month, I don't want to be in a situation where I can't dispute the charges anymore (b/c I have already paid it off) if something goes sideways. I don't expect that... but sometimes shit happens. Thats the protection you get for using a CC.
 
farmboy said:
The problem with custom order is that he needs assurance you (after approving you will buy the product) won't back out on the sale. Most of the time (note: I said most) charging you upfront is not a malicious intent. It's that most of these businesses are not setup with sophisticated enough accounting software to bill 50% now and 50% later.

Like it or not, that is how the world turns with customer/vendor relations.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear - I don't mind paying up front so they can start the work. I realize they need the commitment, and that's why they have a hefty restocking fee if I bail. It makes sense.
But if you're not even starting yet, for some unknown amount of time, then there's absolutely no reason why you need my money now. Only justification would be to order the components... in this case, tube and a pre-fabbed mount - but it's not like you aren't going to need and sell those anyway.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I can't dispute the charges anymore (b/c I have already paid it off) if something goes sideways.
Click to expand...

Nah, you can totally still dispute the charge and get your money back. The limits are longer than that.
 
shawn said:
Nah, you can totally still dispute the charge and get your money back. The limits are longer than that.
Click to expand...
Oh I get that but in the meantime a large chunk of $$ is out of my bank account.
 
I'm not a big fan of paying up front unless they are starting say within a couple of weeks. and it seems 2-3 weeks would be my limit for anything above 50 percent up front. 6-7 is like 2 months. I guess all depends on the rarity of the item too but usually when I order something it's cause a project is at or close to a dead stop without the order. So I count every day as a loss. Especially something like a vehicle that is taking up valuable space sitting.
Now you say it's a large chunk of money so that said, I take interest into account. To me $100 today is worth $101 tomorrow. I see it as I could have used that money on a fall back project and could have been making forward progress. Instead it puts BOTH projects behind cause of the money out of pocket. Anything idle with unseen money invested is worth twice as much if I had it back in my hands.

Bottom line, I'd be a little ill if this was me since it seems as if they flat out lied (or at least hid the truth) to get your money. An honest vendor would be up front before taking money if it was anything different that standard wait time. Also, look how beneficial it is for THEM now. The list of vendors that can charge 2 months in advance is very limited in my book.
 
6BangBronk said:
To me $100 today is worth $101 tomorrow.
Click to expand...
... if you have a way to make 1% interest daily, I'm all ears and in the wrong business! o_O:eek:
But yes I see the point.
 
I'm just too used to oing business as a publicly traded company in the post sarb-ox days.

The scenario described in post 1 would result in jail time unless there was a separate escrow account per order. A separate named custodian and a bunch of other legal mumbo jumbo.

To @farmboy 's point. Construction adds a whole new layer.
And most sub contractors dont understand why I as a supplier wont accept "pay when paid" terms.
 
I like @Oliver's business model. I ordered something thru PM on here. Didnt hear from them for a few days. They called me and asked for my shipping address and that the part was ready to ship. Then they got my payment info. Part arrived the next day I think. Saving money so I can do business with them again!
 
Have you done any research on the company's history? As an example, Road Armor used to do the exact same thing an then screw people with obnoxiously long lead times and all kinds of other bs. It was pretty standard and word got around (still not exactly sure how they dug themselves out of that hole).

Shrockworks is one that always takes payment up front and then you wait till basically they get a couple other bumpers to justify a run. At least that was how they still were the last time I spoke with them.

Just wondering if this company has a history of issues or just got behind.
 
zubz said:
Shrockworks is one that always takes payment up front and then you wait till basically they get a couple other bumpers to justify a run. At least that was how they still were the last time I spoke with them.
Click to expand...

That's a perfectly fine thing to do, as long as everything is communicated and understood properly when you order the part and pay them.
 
Ballistic Fab, anyone? I ordered a 14-Bolt Shave Kit and had to chase that order for three months before I received it, and yes my card was charged and I had paid the balance prior to receiving the order. This was a few years ago.

I just view this as SOP for all these small shops. They get in over their heads and don't have enough cash on hand to manage ordering materials and paying all their bills so they soak up some orders then spend the $$ to fulfill them.

If I had a dollar for every order that has been delayed in my 11 years of buying four-wheeling parts the I would have a nice sum of cash. Almost NO ONE delivers on time as promised.
 
farmboy said:
Get into construction where we don't get paid for 90-120 days after completing the work (and paying for the product) and then they hold 10% of your contract until the job is completed.
Click to expand...


As Sam and most contractors know, it's part of the job and building in interest on the outstanding $ is part of the price/cost based on the agreed upon terms.

As Ron alluded to, subs and. Endors don't like the "paid when paid" agreement although many try to do that so they can switch the financing of the products to the subs. In NC, GCs are not allowed to operate this way as part of holding a license; it's why there are financial verifications for the 3 levels of licenses.

10% until completion is good. Im used to customers holding 20%... 10% until the work is completed and then the other 10% held until the warranty period expires but paid back on a quarterly basis.
 
Back
Top