Question- Proper install for H1 beadlocks

Chuckman

Chuckman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Location
Huntersville
Ok, I have just mounted up some 37x14" bias Iroks on 8 bolt H1 rims with cut down mag inserts. stock BS and homemade 3/8" welded-in rockring at the bead. 'balanced' with BB's per a spec from a reliable source, and currently @25 PSI. I assembled all of this with the info from PBB as far as how to mount them and torque them- even with new Orings. They have held exact pressure for 3 weeks, so maybe they are setting right.
heres the rub. the tires do not seem to run true on the rims (up to 3/8" side-side at center of tread), my old TSL's on regular steelies ran true, but were major out of round. These appear to be 'round', but are not running true. Did I mount these wrong, or is this what your get with these rims? I would think that the tires (however they are SS's) would run a bit more true. there is some minor wobble at 30~35mph and then clear up, and then steady vibration at 65+. I just was curious as to others experience with this setup, since this is not a DD but a driven-to-trail rig.
thanks,
--heres to the Vets!:beer:
 
bent rims?
 
What about taking the worst visually rim/tire combo for a spin balance... should be easy to spot a bent rim/mounting flange or "fubar" tire with it spinning on a known good drive center...????
 
nobody thinks this could be as simple as the way that you center them before you tighten them down? I plan on putting an indicator on them at different places to check the wheels for true. the ride to work (eventually to the trail tomorrow) was the first road test so I have not investigated it much. I was just thinking that there was more to the assembly that I didnt see. however they did look fine wheel I torqued them down.
if the rims are bent, what does it matter other than this problem- assuming they hold air.
 
well the tire bead is tapered as is the rim, on both sides. So assuming the tire bead itself is round, it should be like any other tire bead and self align.

Totally NOT like a weld on type bead lock that is miely sandwhiching the bead between some flat plates.. though im sure the new style w/ centering rings do help some...

kinda like using lug nuts the right way vs upside down...
 
put yer axles on 4 jackstands and let the engine spin all tires, get out and watch...see if it's the rim or the tire...
 
just put the rim on the balance machine versus the rim/tire combo. if its good, then you know its the tire or how you assembled the tire and rim combo...
 
rockcity said:
just put the rim on the balance machine versus the rim/tire combo. if its good, then you know its the tire or how you assembled the tire and rim combo...
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Not to start a pissing match but theres no way to assemble these wrong and have an out of true measurment of 3/8" and still hold air.........my bet is on the bent rim.......
 
Ok fellas, I took these things for a ride from Charlotte to Mtn City this weekend. Got it up to speed and about 25~30 mph and 62~65 mph there is some serious vibration. These are balanced with BB's, by weight. I dont right now have the weight per unit (application again is 37"x14" Iroks on H1's). I have heard that too much dynamic balancing weight is not ideal, but should not cause problems- however too little is not effective. If I find that this certain harmonic point is bad, what is this a sympton of? Remember how much fun it is to open up a beadlock.

On another point. After all these miles of riding over the weekend, I guess these tires arent much different in running true than I had thought compared with a TSL. However, when they get to vibrating, they are seriously out of round. but then I speed up/ slow down just a hair, and they run 'true' again. This looks to be the weight fighting itself.

I would like to find the science behind this dynamic balancing, and yes I've read all about it, but cannot find any practical knowledge from a wheelers point of view.
 
Is the rim bent or not?

Are you "dynamically balancing" too much and causing yourself problems?

take the wheels off and get em to a tire shop and put em on the balancer...if you are gonna run em on the road for any length of time I would suggest getting them pad balanced. I never had any of my swampers balanced but I also didnt whine about the vibrations.............just a thought.:smokin:
 
buggybuilder said:
I never had any of my swampers balanced but I also didnt whine about the vibrations
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Your swampers didn't have enough tread to cause a wobble.. :flipoff2:
 
FWIW, a bud of mine ran 38.5" TSLs on Champion AL beadlocks that were balanced with BBs... He used exactly 2 shot glasses full (a pint sized container split 4 ways) to balance his. AFAIK, they did great execpt for a few instances DW around 40-50mph...
 
buggybuilder said:
Is the rim bent or not?
Are you "dynamically balancing" too much and causing yourself problems?
take the wheels off and get em to a tire shop and put em on the balancer...if you are gonna run em on the road for any length of time I would suggest getting them pad balanced. I never had any of my swampers balanced but I also didnt whine about the vibrations.............just a thought.:smokin:
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I am not whining about vibrations, I am looking for information- sorry if I mis-interpreted that. Yes, I have had tires pad-balanced before. It works great, but costs money and you have to take them to Galloways = a wasted saturday and $50 -not the end of the world, but... I was wanting to try the BB balancing because it seemed fairly interesting, neat tech if it worked; and automatically reacted to the chunking of lugs. No, I have not taken the time to check the rims for true- yet. I was simply searching for ideas and comments from others that may have had this issue before I spend (possibly) unnecessary time going into these wheels. It seems that this style of balancing (BB's) is maybe more of a 'I know of a guy that did it and it worked fine' type of thing. And since PBB's search is down, I will have to wait for answers from the West Coast.
 
water/anti-freeze balancing has been used for YEARS by OTR truckers.

No, I can't tell you how much to use, gonna have to experiment.

I still think your wheels may be bent. It don't take much.
 
Rich said:
water/anti-freeze balancing has been used for YEARS by OTR truckers.
No, I can't tell you how much to use, gonna have to experiment.
I still think your wheels may be bent. It don't take much.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Moorefields method is an 8oz (olive) jar @ 50/50... planning to do it in the next few weeks. All I'll have to compare it to is the previous years asphalt driving... with moved/missin lead weights... anything would be an improvement!:D
 
Rich said:
Your swampers didn't have enough tread to cause a wobble.. :flipoff2:
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Uh..............that set didnt have enough tread to cause vibrations.....PaL......I did have other swampers before the buggy!!!!!:flipoff2: ...too funny.

Anyways, not tryin to give you a hard time but the "alternative" methods of balancing seem to be a hit or miss type situation and if youve got a rig thats gonna be on the road alot where one might "worry" about vibrations, it might make sense to have em balanced.....where also you might find a bent wheel.....

I will leave you alone now.....
 
Yo,

Read and study this:

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Tire/Hunter_Tire_Runout.htm

The Hunter 9700, assuming it can handle the tire diameter, will be your
best investment in time and money. You have too many variables and
trying to isolate one or more yourself is nearly impossible. Yes, removing
the tires and validating good rims is a start but you will spend money
doing that exercise. You can go to Hunters web site and find a tire store in your neighborhood that has the Hunter 9700. The rolling force feedback device will quickly tell you if the tire/rim combo has high spots and will also allow the operator to move the tires high spot to the rims low spot to remove as much of the egg shape as possible. You will also be able to measure lateral runout on the rims (bent rim) and view the tire dynamically. Its possible the bead locks may be distorting the rim? Spend the money and put them on a 9700, you will not regret it if you plan to drive on the street with those huge tires.

Been there and have done that.....:beer: Whoops, farted again :D
 
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