Replacing Indoor A/C unit/Furnace

josh m said:
^^ this. I'd also verify that you have appropriate attic insulation. Maybe look into installing a powered attic fan. I had a similar issue earlier this summer. Installed a blower fan on a gable and a exhaust fan near the ridge. Hasn't cut the bill by much, but my inside temp isn't creeping up on hot afternoons. So hopefully it'll pay of by not overworking my hvac.
Click to expand...


Powered attic fans will never save any money. The fan motor watts is higher than any potential savings. Yes it may keep the attic cooler, but at a cost.

Continuous soffit and ridge vent is better than gable only vents. These have a fixed up front cost but possible returns over time.

Money better spent would be on using a couple buckets of mastic to reseal all the ductwork and then reseal and double the insulation on all the ductwork.

X2 on more attic insulation and better Windows.

Is the air handler in the attic or in an interior closet? If attic, make sure the unit is insulated to the attic space.

Sounds like the inside coil could be blocked with dirt/dust/mold. This will knock the airflow way down and kill the effectiveness and efficiency of the unit.

Also check placement of thermostat. Is it near a supply duct? If so, it is getting a shot of cold air before the rooms get cold causing the short cycling.

Perhaps it's always done that, but now you are aware?
 
Yea. House is a 39 model with hip roof. It's has ridge vent but it only allowed for 1/4 of the ventilation needed. No soffit vents. So I pull in on north and exhaust on the south side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ron said:
Is it still doing the 5 minutes on/off/on thing since the condensate line was cleaned out? If not that could have been the problem. Its very common to break the air handler contacts through either a moisture switch or a sump pump switch (if your condensate drain uses a pump-mine does)...potentially it could have been a -> run->produce condensate->shut down because of condensate build up->drain down->restart-> repeat cycle. In which case it would never run long enough to be efficient.

Like Shawn said that is referred to as short cycling. Something is causing that. That will run your power bill up.

I'm guessing the only thing indoor is the air handler and the coil. (But I am just guessing because 30 years ago...I mean lots of stuff is possible) That's not typically going to be a power sink. Basically it is a big box with a cold radiator in it and a fan that blows air across that cold radiator and out into your ducts. If it fails, its usually the blower motor and they typically fail off. Is it feasible you have an internal winding random short? Yes, I suppose. But highly unlikely. You could even replace that motor for a newer more efficient one, but again that isnt going to cause the cycling you are seeing.
Click to expand...
It is still doing the short cycling after the line was cleaned out. I cleaned the line out about 3 weeks ago or so. It seemed to do a little better last night, but I still have it set on 73...I turned it down to 72 and it just kept running and running. Turned it back to 73 and it seemed to be ok...didn't seem like it was short cycling as much.
josh m said:
If it's cycling 5 on 5 off its not running correctly. Find another hvac company. I think 5-7 minutes is the cycle time for the newer thermostats. If you have one of those, it sounds like the system is overloading or getting switched off, then coming back on after the reset time. Have you watched the temp on the thermostat while it cycles. Does the temp drop then system kicks off? Turn it down to 65, of its still going, 5 on 5 off, you got a problem. Where are you located?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I am located in High Point. I watch the T stat and sometimes if I turn the air down 3 or more degrees from what it is in the house, it will struggle to get it down and sometimes can't keep up and temp will start to rise. Not sure if this is how an A/C works or not, but it seems my A/C is on a timer instead of going by temp...
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
It is still doing the short cycling after the line was cleaned out. I cleaned the line out about 3 weeks ago or so. It seemed to do a little better last night, but I still have it set on 73...I turned it down to 72 and it just kept running and running. Turned it back to 73 and it seemed to be ok...didn't seem like it was short cycling as much.

I am located in High Point. I watch the T stat and sometimes if I turn the air down 3 or more degrees from what it is in the house, it will struggle to get it down and sometimes can't keep up and temp will start to rise. Not sure if this is how an A/C works or not, but it seems my A/C is on a timer instead of going by temp...
Click to expand...
Yea it's sounding like you need some help bc it's not supposed to cycle like that. It should remain on until the temp drops to the set temp. You can try cleaning the coils and make sure your air handler is not cakes up with dust. Also try removing your filters for a afternoon. It's best to run the cheapest filters and change more often. The pleated high dollar ones will put excess load on the old unit. I don't know anyone local to you to recommend. See if there is a plumbing/hvac supplier in your area fergusons/Ccdickson and ask the counter guy who he likes locally.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
It seemed to do a little better last night, but I still have it set on 73...I turned it down to 72 and it just kept running and running
Click to expand...

That's normal - to a point. There's a lot of heat energy stored up in the house, and dropping the setpoint can take a while.

I think this has been asked before, but what's the relative humidity in the house?
 
You know what to do...

ai.imgur.com_XiU59DA.jpg
 
shawn said:
That's normal - to a point. There's a lot of heat energy stored up in the house, and dropping the setpoint can take a while.

I think this has been asked before, but what's the relative humidity in the house?
Click to expand...
That I couldn't tell you. I'm guessing its pretty high.

Is there a difference in calling someone out to do a service call vs. a tune up? My BIL saw something on Groupon last night for a tune up for $40.... not sure what all that includes... I really just want someone honest who can really take the time to listen and look and tell me what I can do to make sure its running as good as it can.

I do buy the cheap filters and just change them out monthly. I had heard that the expensive ones are more restrictive.
 
Your are debating on putting an entire new unit that costs 4-6k most likely vs just having somebody come out and look at what is going on for ~100 bucks (and yet worried about 40-50 bucks), just find a recommendation for a good person in your area and call him up. A tune up isn't the same as a service call, for 40 bucks they may tell you what is wrong though, but a tune up mostly just checks the levels in the system and cleans the coils.

People that need to advertise their services on groupon aren't normally the best guys, the best guys are busy by word of mouth and don't need to cheaply advertise like that. For 40 bucks they are going to be trying to upsell you on something I bet.
 
josh m said:
Yea it's sounding like you need some help bc it's not supposed to cycle like that. It should remain on until the temp drops to the set temp. You can try cleaning the coils and make sure your air handler is not cakes up with dust. Also try removing your filters for a afternoon. It's best to run the cheapest filters and change more often. The pleated high dollar ones will put excess load on the old unit. I don't know anyone local to you to recommend. See if there is a plumbing/hvac supplier in your area fergusons/Ccdickson and ask the counter guy who he likes locally.
Click to expand...
Might go to Home Depot or lowes tonight to get some coil cleaner.... Does the A/C need to be off to clean them?
 
DSM Turbos said:
Your are debating on putting an entire new unit that costs 4-6k most likely vs just having somebody come out and look at what is going on for ~100 bucks (and yet worried about 40-50 bucks), just find a recommendation for a good person in your area and call him up. A tune up isn't the same as a service call, for 40 bucks they may tell you what is wrong though, but a tune up mostly just checks the levels in the system and cleans the coils.

People that need to advertise their services on groupon aren't normally the best guys, the best guys are busy by word of mouth and don't need to cheaply advertise like that. For 40 bucks they are going to be trying to upsell you on something I bet.
Click to expand...
I'm not debating on just forking out the money for a new system vs. a service call. What I am trying to avoid is someone coming out who is just going to tell me that I need a new system without doing some digging. obviously, I'd love to check a few things off the list that I could do myself before calling someone out.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
I'm not debating on just forking out the money for a new system vs. a service call. What I am trying to avoid is someone coming out who is just going to tell me that I need a new system without doing some digging. obviously, I'd love to check a few things off the list that I could do myself before calling someone out.
Click to expand...

A good company will put your money from that service call against paying for a new system if you go with them to buy a new system if they tell you it isn't worth it and they don't do any "real" work (just an hour of labor)

It is a 100 bucks though, this is over your head, pay somebody. Or you will wind up spending more money trying to do it yourself.
 
DSM Turbos said:
A good company will put your money from that service call against paying for a new system if you go with them to buy a new system if they tell you it isn't worth it and they don't do any "real" work (just an hour of labor)

It is a 100 bucks though, this is over your head, pay somebody. Or you will wind up spending more money trying to do it yourself.
Click to expand...
you are probably right about it being over my head, but I was able to diagnose a bad capacitor when we moved in the house, was also able to diagnose a clogged condensation line twice. 3 times I was able to save money and do it myself. Not saying that I can fix this all myself, just saying, Id like to try to eliminate small things that I am capable of doing.
 
Turn off unit, disconnect power.

open panel that allows access to coil.

Take pictures

Post pictures.

If that is too complicated, call a tech.

Is air handler Attic or interior?

Why did the drain clog twice?

If coil isn't dirty or blocked, obviously don't waste your time/effort cleaning it.

If coil is dirty and partially blocked, start by vacuuming any bulk debris up with hepa vacuum or shop vac.

Now use coil cleaner specified for indoor coils. Make sure to scrub with plastic brush, careful not to hurt any fins or tubes, and rinse with plenty of water. Typically I use a pump up sprayer and back flush coil opposite direction of air flow.

Soak up any bulk excess water with towels or shop vac.
 
Mac5005 said:
Turn off unit, open panel that allows access to coil.

Take pictures

Post pictures.

Is air handler Attic or interior?

Why did the drain clog twice?
Click to expand...
Reason I asked about cleaning the coils is because I have read several articles and some day to leave it running and some say to turn it off.

Air Handler is interior. The condensation line was clogged the first time outside by mud and leaves and stuff.... then it was clogged by the drain pan this last time.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Reason I asked about cleaning the coils is because I have read several articles and some day to leave it running and some say to turn it off.

Air Handler is interior. The condensation line was clogged the first time outside by mud and leaves and stuff.... then it was clogged by the drain pan this last time.
Click to expand...


You always turn off power before servicing any piece of equipment.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
The condensation line was clogged the first time outside by mud and leaves and stuff.... then it was clogged by the drain pan this last time.
Click to expand...

Where did the "mud and leaves and stuff" come from? Is there a lift pump on the condensate?
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
care to explain?
Click to expand...

Since you asked, I will. But in print this is going to come out much more abrasive than I wish it would.
Essentially you are John Fuller. Only with home repair. Numerous times you post threads asking for advice, you get a lot of similar advice. You ignore said advice, and state what you are going to do and then ask for help.

Look congrats you replaced a cap by yourself. Its the single easiest thing you can do to an HVAC system. Of course if you had let the wrong wire touch the wrong thing you could have shorted out a $1,000 board. Good thing you didnt or that $100 savings would have cost 10x as much.

You coils probably do need to be cleaned. Very good chance. Also a very low chance that is causing your short cycling issue, if you even have a short cycling issue. From reading many of your responses in this thread Im not sure you clearly understand how you are supposed to operate your HVAC system much less how it works. I am all for DIY, and lord knows Ill work hours to save a nickel. But I dont know shit about airplanes. I am not going to offer to repair the engine for Delta in exchange for $50 off the ticket. The potential consequences are too grave.

Ask anyone who is a true technician in their field and they will tel you this, "The opposite of a pro isnt a novice, nor is it someone who is totally ignorant. The opposite of a true pro is the guy who is paid to do it and just throws parts at it."

To me, your whole approach is, "What do you guys think is wrong"
Response: "Could be A,B,C or D. Sounds like E may a problem as well"
"Oh great. E sounds easy, let me do E and see if the problem goes away."

Now I will apologize in advance. Im grumpy and sleep deprived and good luck with your AC.
 
Mac505 gave good advise. Air handler is a pressurized box, so running it with the access door off won't help you. Do what he said. Take pics post em. It could be a list of things that's causing your problems. So calling someone in is a good idea. Ask people you know for recommendations. Contractors, neighbors, the guy at the parts counter that deals with them every day. More than likely, if it's a major component of the system, it may be better to replace it all because of the refrigerant cost. Even the smaller hvac company's have payment or finance options if that is a factor. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ron said:
Since you asked, I will. But in print this is going to come out much more abrasive than I wish it would.
Essentially you are John Fuller. Only with home repair. Numerous times you post threads asking for advice, you get a lot of similar advice. You ignore said advice, and state what you are going to do and then ask for help.

Look congrats you replaced a cap by yourself. Its the single easiest thing you can do to an HVAC system. Of course if you had let the wrong wire touch the wrong thing you could have shorted out a $1,000 board. Good thing you didnt or that $100 savings would have cost 10x as much.

You coils probably do need to be cleaned. Very good chance. Also a very low chance that is causing your short cycling issue, if you even have a short cycling issue. From reading many of your responses in this thread Im not sure you clearly understand how you are supposed to operate your HVAC system much less how it works. I am all for DIY, and lord knows Ill work hours to save a nickel. But I dont know shit about airplanes. I am not going to offer to repair the engine for Delta in exchange for $50 off the ticket. The potential consequences are too grave.

Ask anyone who is a true technician in their field and they will tel you this, "The opposite of a pro isnt a novice, nor is it someone who is totally ignorant. The opposite of a true pro is the guy who is paid to do it and just throws parts at it."

To me, your whole approach is, "What do you guys think is wrong"
Response: "Could be A,B,C or D. Sounds like E may a problem as well"
"Oh great. E sounds easy, let me do E and see if the problem goes away."

Now I will apologize in advance. Im grumpy and sleep deprived and good luck with your AC.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize at all. I don't believe I ignore anyone's advice if it pertains to what I am dealing with, however. it is just that...advice. I personally like to at least research a bit as to what I am tackling next. I don't believe in calling someone at the first sign of something going wrong. (there are exceptions to that rule) and you are right, maybe replacing a capacitor is one of the easiest things to do to an A/C unit, but you know what? I didn't know that's what it was at first. I didn't even know an AC unit had a capacitor, even more so, how to unhook one and hook a new one back up. Detail stripping a gun is something I can do in my sleep. Fine tuning a trigger and setting pre travel and over travel is something that is very easy to do, but not everyone who owns a gun knows how to do it.
I have owned a house for exactly 3 years today...I am still learning about stuff as I will for a very long time to come. I try to take everyone's advice and use to my advantage...even if I have to call someone up, at least I can sound like I know what I am talking about or understand what the hell they are saying or say " I checked this and that and it all seems good" Educating myself on things in my own house is very important to me. I want to know how things work.
I am simply trying to educate myself. I'd rather know a little bit about what is going on with my stuff than just be completely oblivious. I apologize if I seem like a total newb who tries to take the cheap way out and think that some magical spray is going to make things all better...That is not my intention at all. I am simply using process of elimination. Just as it does when it comes to cars, you fix one thing but notice that your air filter needs to be replaced or you have leaky radiator hose...well you replace them and fix it...might not have anything to do with what is really going on with your car, but it can't hurt to eliminate those things now.
I am by no means trying to avoid calling out an HVAC guy....just would like info on what I could possibly check myself.
 
Go to your local CC and take an HVAC class if you want education.

Like Ron said, there could several issues and solutions to your problem.

You can change filters, thermostats, clean coils, wrap ducts, etc all mean nothing if the compressor is shot, there is a leak in either coil, or any other major issue.

Sure starting with the small and cheap stuff is fine, but at the same time, if you need a new air handler due to a problem easily diagnosed by a pro,

Taking it apart to inspect and clean it is a waste of time.

This is where the $100 service call to a good tech is invaluable. Let them tell you ok, freon pressures are ok, both high and low side, etc,

This will confirm if the refrigeration system is operating correctly, or not, which can shift your focus to other smaller things, or rule out wasting time and money on the small stuff
 
I'll play.

Going off of things I've skimmed over in the thread:
Used to work fine but now suddenly doesn't.
Mildly cools when running.
Short cycles. Runs a few minutes then off a few minutes.


First thing I'd check is the outdoor fan motor to make sure it's running up to speed or at all. You'll need and amp meter to see if it's running too slow, obviously if it's not running at all I think you'll be able to tell (but so far your responses to simple instructions aren't promising :flipoff2:)
 
Back
Top