Running your rig on water?

jds97Wrangler

jds97Wrangler

Active Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Location
Mccleansville, NC
Has any one else thought about running their rig on Hydrogen gas? I have several plans for this and have thought about putting one on my TJ. Originally it was so I could get better gas mileage but now that gas prices have come down I am thinking about adding one and leaving the O2 sensor a loan and using it for the power gains. With a 4 cylinder TJ I am looking for any power boost I can get!!!!!

And before any skeptics chime in yes the are very easy to build hydrogen generators that you can add to a car that will make your vehicle a water hybrid. They have systems as simple as a stainless steal tube coiled in a mason jar and as complex as a circuit board control pulse generator.
 
awspence said:
http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44949&highlight=hydrogen

http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55691&highlight=hydrogen

http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47335&highlight=hydrogen



good luck...

it wont work.
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I read those threads and many people say they tried one or are going to try one. About every one who tried had some success with it. But I did see alot of negative post from you in all those threads.

Have you actually tried one and it failed or are you just basing you negativity on your wealth of knowledge? Just wonder I see you constantly saying it doesn't work but know where do I read where you installed one. Have you done any research on how it works or what it takes to make it work?

Yes in a closed loop fuel enjection system you actually have to understand how the O2 sensor works and make adjustments to it to see the fuel milage gains. But of course you know this since you tried it right?
 
Dont be such a jack ass. you want proof it doesnt work.....

go to Advance Auto or Napa and tell them you want to order a hydrogen kit for your car. Better yet call the dealership and ask for the OEM part number.

the technology has been out long enough that if it worked the auto industry would have jumped head over heels all over this.

Not to mention its cheaper to produce than fuel oil so BIG OIL would have been all over it to not only corner the market but not lose footing in the auto fueling industry.


and, i think in most of those post you'll find me pretty biased, if not in defense of browns gas.
 
jds97Wrangler

i would suggest not being an ass to him also....being a friend of his we dont call him "kenmore" for nothing if you get my drift........also he is an engineer.....and an all around cool ass guy....i take everything he tells me to heart, sometimes i dont listen to it but i always remember.....also remember your asking questions on a forum where the majority of people are bigtime smartass' including myself....
 
Man, do it up, sell your product make your millions, hell billions of dollars if it is that simple and awesome.

Fact is EVERYONE would be running this if it worked.

No such thing as free energy.

Edit: even wikipedia knows it is false

Oxyhydrogen is often mentioned in conjunction with devices that claim to operate a car using water as a fuel. Because the energy required to split water exceeds the energy recouped by burning it, these devices reduce, rather than improve fuel efficiency.

and:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car


yeah yeah yeah, you can't use wikipedia as a reference, i know
 
BigRedB2 said:
Dont be such a jack ass. you want proof it doesnt work.....
go to Advance Auto or Napa and tell them you want to order a hydrogen kit for your car. Better yet call the dealership and ask for the OEM part number.
the technology has been out long enough that if it worked the auto industry would have jumped head over heels all over this.
Not to mention its cheaper to produce than fuel oil so BIG OIL would have been all over it to not only corner the market but not lose footing in the auto fueling industry.
and, i think in most of those post you'll find me pretty biased, if not in defense of browns gas.
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I don't mean any offense to no one but I just get frustrated when someone dismisses something they have never tried and they don't understand. I not knocking his intelligence I assuming he is a mechanical engineer not an electrical. As a electrical engineer I see the concept and understand how it can work. I am not saying that with these little garage built items you will be able replace gas but when done proper you will be able to see 2-7 miles per gallon improvement. Or if you don't adjust your computer you can see power gains.

How many of you know the technology exist to make diesel fuel out of mold. How many of you know you can convert your truck or car to run on propane. But of course that isn't possible either because if it were the auto industry would be doing it right now and we would not be using gas. The technology to run a engine on natural gas has been around for 30 years why are cars not natural gas?

My only point to this is don’t just dismiss something because you don’t have a understanding of it. I am going to a company in Detroit next Wednesday that takes Crisco and turns into diesel fuel. Yes solid Crisco cooking oil and converts it to fuel. They are in the process of installing of installing 4 – 1 million gallon tanks that they will grow mold in and convert it to diesel fuel. So there is a lot out there we don’t understand.

Here is a website of a BMW that runs totally on (water) (Edit) My bad I meant hydrogen and is built by BMW- check it out and tell me water can't be used for fuel. Now this car is not producing its own hydrogen but it prduces zero emissions.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...es/Hydrogen.aspx?enc=DTVVlzsxJb0GJb9oWmD0WA==
 
first off youre comparing apples to oranges.

yes it is 100% possible to run a car on hydrogen, or to add some hydrogen to your gas to possibly increase fuel milage, but how you obtain that hydrogen is is the point on which all of this hinges. If there were hydrogen filling stations or if you had access to tanks, then none of this matter, burn it.

If you think that you can have a NET GAIN OF ENERGY by using energy from your crankshaft( by way of your alternator converting the mechanical energy into electrical energy (a.k.a.inneficiency number one)) to seperate that hydrogen you intend to burn, then you're just not thinking it through. The first law of thermodynamics tells us this is not the case. That is the first LAW, not the first "suggestion", or first "maybe" of thermodynamics.


second, every form of biodiesel has been tried, and they all work to some extent. the one that i want to see make it big is algae. incredibly easy to grow and it is capable of producing magnitudes more oil per acre than corn.

And, natural gas cars are easy to get, from the honda dealer no less.(civic GX) You just haven't seen them because they go where there is demand, AKA, not in NC, since we have no decent network for distribution of CNG to refill cars.

EDIT: and i would also wager that a very substantial portion of this site knows you can run a vehicle on propane, as there are plenty of members who do. even some complete setups for sale on this site.
 
I just had an idea. If you can run a car on water, you can run a car on mud, and your exhaust would be dry dirt.
 
Well dang, why hasn't this been done?????

it would be the most eco-friendly exhaust ever. must be big oil holding it down.

except when you burn hydrogen with oxygen, the exhaust by product would be water, so:

mud in, mud out!
 
awspence said:
Well dang, why hasn't this been done?????

it would be the most eco-friendly exhaust ever. must be big oil holding it down.

except when you burn hydrogen with oxygen, the exhaust by product would be water, so:

mud in, mud out!
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Nonono, you got it all wrong. You extract the water from the mud to burn it, and then magically vaporize it to Africa as clean drinking water. Sorry, I thought that part was obvious from my first post.
 
For the past month or so, I have been running mine on hopes and dreams, unicorns and rainbows, and pixie dust and fairy wings. Been pulling down a consistent 40 mpg...



The hydrogen system you are talking about is a lot like the wind farms right now. It will cost/expend more energy than it produces.

A free flowing air intake and a non restrictive exhaust will be a much better way to spend the money wasted on this kit.
 
FWIW I read up a little on the H20 converter and even read the patent. I was able to at least understand the concepts he was using.. IMHO in theory some of what he has proposed seem very (myth busters term) 'plausible' Our knowledge of stuff at a molecular level has increased tremendously in the last 20 years, so I see this having some potential...

Anyway....My super simplified version of how it works.... It uses different forms of energy waves to break the water down. It seemed like it was using specific frequencies of light and RF in a very precise way to focus the very low power input in a way to split the water molecule. I would equate it to something like the scram jet engine just not seeming to be possible 100 years ago.

And I agree 1000x on the algae bio.... I think we'll see that in our lifetime... AND only because almost anyone/company can 'work' on that problem. Where the innovation can't be bought or limited (as easily) by the current oligopoly running things now..
 
uglyjeepoffroad said:
A free flowing air intake and a non restrictive exhaust will be a much better way to spend the money wasted on this kit.
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x2. Or just get a supercharger if you want more power. :driver:
 
awspence said:
first off youre comparing apples to oranges.

yes it is 100% possible to run a car on hydrogen, or to add some hydrogen to your gas to possibly increase fuel milage, but how you obtain that hydrogen is is the point on which all of this hinges. If there were hydrogen filling stations or if you had access to tanks, then none of this matter, burn it.

If you think that you can have a NET GAIN OF ENERGY by using energy from your crankshaft( by way of your alternator converting the mechanical energy into electrical energy (a.k.a.inneficiency number one)) to seperate that hydrogen you intend to burn, then you're just not thinking it through. The first law of thermodynamics tells us this is not the case. That is the first LAW, not the first "suggestion", or first "maybe" of thermodynamics.


second, every form of biodiesel has been tried, and they all work to some extent. the one that i want to see make it big is algae. incredibly easy to grow and it is capable of producing magnitudes more oil per acre than corn.

And, natural gas cars are easy to get, from the honda dealer no less.(civic GX) You just haven't seen them because they go where there is demand, AKA, not in NC, since we have no decent network for distribution of CNG to refill cars.

EDIT: and i would also wager that a very substantial portion of this site knows you can run a vehicle on propane, as there are plenty of members who do. even some complete setups for sale on this site.
Click to expand...



I guess I am a little slow here you don't have to add another alternator to you car. Most new vehicles already have an alternator rated over 100 amps the system I have been reading up on using about 15-20 amps. How is that going to eat up a 2-7 mile per gallon gain? My truck already has an alternator capable of this and if it doesn't I can buy a high out put alternator that will and I seriously doubt it will decrease my gas mileage by 7 miles per gallon.

Now I am not 100% sure it will work but I am not willing to dismiss it because I think I know it all. My whole point to this was to see if any one else has tried this. I am not talking about the Mason jar system that use distilled water and baking soda. I just don't know they will produce enough hydrogen to make them worth wild. The one I am talking about uses throttle feed back to produce more Hydrogen as needed through a pulse generator circuitry.


Algae bio diesel is what I meant when I said mold, I am a control panel engineer and PLC programmer and I engineered and programmed a control panel that was for a company that is in warren Michigan that mass produces bio diesel and that is what their company model is based on is Algae Bio diesel. There is no profit for a company using Vegetable oil to produce bio diesel if it were not for government subsidies they would be out of business.
 
Myth Busters already had this on there show. It did not work. Everything was tested on a dyno and proven to lose 2 miles per gallon. Its like everyone else has already said...... if works some one would already be selling it making billions of dollars.

In defense of hydrogen and even natural gas...... someone said if it worked auto companys would be selling it. Thats not 100% true. I dont think the DOT in the us will ever allow companys to sell a vehicle with a hydrogen cell in it. Its just not safe as far as an accident goes. Its just explosive. Natural gas is the same way.
 
amajeepman said:
In defense of hydrogen and even natural gas...... someone said if it worked auto companys would be selling it. Thats not 100% true. I dont think the DOT in the us will ever allow companys to sell a vehicle with a hydrogen cell in it. Its just not safe as far as an accident goes. Its just explosive. Natural gas is the same way.
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I hear Iraq is going to the Natural Gas market as an alternative fuel. Now they dont need to make triggers for their bombs.. they just run the cars into stuff. :lol:

I agree w/ everyone, I havent tried it to formulate an answer myself, but from all the data, tests, surveys and so on that other people have put forth the effort on all point to..... it doesnt work.
 
#1 City of Asheville has over 50 NG powered vehicles and NG fillings stations.
#2 So you are an electrical engineer? Congrats? PE I am sure since you throw the term engineer out there. So you understand the electrical side but bash Mechanical Engineers...meanwhile Chemical Engineers laugh at all of us. I am an EE, well an EIT EE working on my PE. That said the big thing you are forgeting is the stability of water. If it would freely give up its hydrogen as easily as you claim this entire planet would not exist. It takes a LOT of energy to separate a water molecule.

Now as to your tests. In a bet with a friend I gained 11 miles per gallon over an entire tank by altering my driving habits....research hyper milers they do it al the time. FWIW that equated to a tank average of 37mpg in an 07 Impala. That is why all the threads and posts are bunk. If you want to prove it works I want a clinical trail double blind in a fixed environment with a mechanically controlled throttle. IOW eliminate the ooooooh I built it it WILL work so I will feather my throttle factor. Or the weather changed 10 degrees between trial 1 and trail 2 factor. Of course I am going to want a chemical analysis of each cars fuel fuel as well as a mixed tank used to fuel both cars.

There are alt. fuels out there. Hell I recently designed, engineered and sold a co gen application that produces enough power to run a small subdivision all off of waste methane produced by a landfill that prior to our implementation was costing the municipality upwards of $50k/year in EPA fines....now that same methane makes electricity that is sold to the utility.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I just had an idea. If you can run a car on water, you can run a car on mud, and your exhaust would be dry dirt.
Click to expand...

That would just make me angry, I would want the car to run on dry dirt and produce mud, then i could jsut point my exhaust forward and drive throu a consistent mud bog at all times therefor legalizing the use of tractor tires on the road :driver:
 
jrraw23 said:
That would just make me angry, I would want the car to run on dry dirt and produce mud, then i could jsut point my exhaust forward and drive throu a consistent mud bog at all times therefor legalizing the use of tractor tires on the road :driver:
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I just laughed out loud. That was excellent. Is there a reply of the month award?
 
I think there was some confusion as to why I started this thread I never once claimed that I have a HHO system working I am doing research and asking if anyone has tried it. I wanted to find out if there has been any one who has built the pulse modulation system that uses throttle feedback. Not the Mason jar gimmicks that are sold on the internet.

Where it went down hill is I questions "Awspence" theory that it will never work when every thing I read says he has never tried it and doesn't really know anyone who has. I don't come on claiming to know a lot I ask a lot of questions the only reason I mentioned I am an engineer was because I was told not to question Awspence because he is an engineer.

It is not the big of deal I will continue finding information about this and if I get it to work based on the plans I have I will share the info with other people who want to try it. If not then I had fun experimenting and I'll move on to the next hair brain idea that comes my way. It is kind of like the guy on here that put a motor cycle engine in his Samari. Why did he do it? I guess because he could and people told him it would never work.
 
I have never tried jumping off the empire state building and gliding to the grand canyon....but I'm pretty sure it will not work.

In order for it to work it will have to be 100+% efficient.
Make it work and re write history.

Anyone ever seen a water molecule split?
Lets just say th car wouldnt survive
 
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