School me on hydraulic assist steering.

nctom

nctom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Location
CONCORD NC
I dont know much about this, so please school me.

Got an ex-nascar 16.1 Saginaw 800 box with the 4 bolt holes. Dana 60 has the brackets on the center link and axle tube for the cyld. What do I need to know to complete the deal? Who has a good working set up that can get me on the right path?

Tapped end plate for gear box?
Drill out the valve in the pump for more flow?
Etc....
 
If this isnt a good choice for a class b ecors rig let me know that too. I dont want to loose my "feel" from the steering.
 
I dont know how many turns lock to lock a 16:1 steering box is, but its likely a lot...not something you'd want for an ecors rig. Not really familiar with the 800 box either, youre talking car stuff but depending on which side of the frame your box mounts on the passages to tap are all pretty similar and there are hundreds of writeups with pictures all over the web and pirate. The common steering pump mod is the "west texas offroad" bypass shimming http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Ln3BQ&usg=AFQjCNHPFLasykvfau-fFR_oLHEsL6O2RA . The only other thing i would add that should be common wisdom but isnt is don't use hardware store npt elbows and fittings, they flow poorly and use a smaller bore ram. What size tires are you going to run?
 
40 inch tires. The fastest boxes are 12.7 to 1 and the slowest is 24 to 1
The 800 is the heavy duty GM Saginaw box on a 1 ton.
You can locate one of the basic Saginaw "800" series power steering boxes in one of these vehicles:
1964-'76 AMC
1961-'76 Cadillac, including
1963-'76 Eldorado
1964-'76 Buick and Pontiac full-size cars and Riviera
1973-'76 Regal
1975-'76 Skyhawk, Seville, Monza and Starfire
1965-'76 Chevrolet full-size cars
1967-'76 Camaro and 1968-'76 Nova
1964-'76 Chevelle, Cutlass, GTO, Grand Prix, Lemans, Ventura and Tempest
1971-'76 Vega and 1975 Pontiac Astre
1960-'76 Oldsmobile full-size cars including 1966-'76 Tornado
1971-'76 Jeep Cherokee, Wagoneer, Gladiator and J-series pickups
1972-'75 International Scout and Traveler
 
I got a working hydro-assist setup on my DD. For your axle and tire combo, I'd say a 2x8" or 1.75x8" single-ended ram and the afore mentioned pump mod. Not to worry, you'll still have plenty of "feel" as long as your camber and caster and toe are right. I notice mine is a little bit slower, but I'm still using the stock pump.
 
12 to 1 is 2 turns lock to lock,..16 to one is 3 an a 1/4 turns,....hard to find a 14 a 10's,..the 10 to 1 is 1 3/4 rounds lock to lock,..800 box is gm standard box,..an 600 is gm metric box,..the metric uses newer fittings..if its a nascar box its probably been reworked an no telling what its true rato is...depends on track it was built for...
 
It is a 16 to 1. Compared to a GM full size at 27 to 1, it should be pretty sporty. If I dont like it, the 93-98 grand Cherokees are a 12 to 1 Metric box. Thats about as good as its gonna' get.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
I would suggest a 1.75" ram... For racing, the 2" ram will be too slow to help much
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x2, I've got a 2" ram on my Ford cab truck. No fawkign way I could race that thing. The steering is too slow. Especially when you need to do quick left, right changes such as in tight woods. Does anyone who races in ECORS run hydro-assist? I would be skeptical of any hydro-assist system being fast enough for tight woods. Did Jody run hydro-assist on the Manche?
 
If you are not street driving, I would go full hydro...
 
snappy said:
If you are not street driving, I would go full hydro...
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I have no seat time on a full hydro at all. Obviously you are a fan. I would imagine it stops bump steer and you have less to fab up. You are talking a charlynn valve and all that stuff right?
 
Speed is directly related to the flow coming out of your pump. You could have a 6x8 ram move just as fast as stock steering if you were pushing enough pressure into that cylinder. P.S. I have a GM metric box that's already ported if your box doesn't work out. Let it go for 50 bucks.
 
nctom said:
I have no seat time on a full hydro at all. Obviously you are a fan. I would imagine it stops bump steer and you have less to fab up. You are talking a charlynn valve and all that stuff right?
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You are using the term 'bump steer', but I think you mean 'feedback'. I have never built a full hydro system, but from what I understand, full hydro systems can be done with load reactive and non-load reactive steering valves. Non-load reactive valves will not 'self center' and will give no input from the trail back to the steering wheel. Load reactives are the opposite. There are threads discussing the pros and cons of both on Pirate4x4. There is also a good write up on full hydro in the tech articles section.
 
drkelly said:
You are using the term 'bump steer', but I think you mean 'feedback'. I have never built a full hydro system, but from what I understand, full hydro systems can be done with load reactive and non-load reactive steering valves. Non-load reactive valves will not 'self center' and will give no input from the trail back to the steering wheel. Load reactives are the opposite. There are threads discussing the pros and cons of both on Pirate4x4. There is also a good write up on full hydro in the tech articles section.
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This is true, we generally use load reactive orbitals and they sense stuff like caster and will allow the steering wheel to self center if you let go of it. They won't give you much feedback or feel though but slightly more feedback than a non reactive valve. I would go full hydro. If you want to build a hydro assist setup that works really well and is reliable for racing you need to spend the coin and have a system built for you, not piece one together. That's my .02
 
I think he means bump steer as in there is no longer a drag link to cause it? Non sensing/load reactive valves are nice if you only go slow and they are generally cheaper. Full hydro that steers worth a shit isn't going to be cheap either since you cant find used tractor valves with the displacement we need or steering cylinders of the right size for cheap.
 
Is it a homemade hydro assist parts list you're looking for? I've built several complete hydro assist setups over the years and have never had more than $200 invested. I can PM you with a link to another forum. Or post it here if you want. Google "$185 hydro assist thread" by XJsavage.
 
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