School me on portable generators

obullfish said:
@Ron what did ya come up with on a whole home generator?
Click to expand...


I'm going to apologize Its been hectic the last week. Multiple times I logged in here to double digit PMs asking for gen pricing or questions.
Tried to get back to everyone but I know I failed.

Can you refresh my memory on what you are looking for?
 
Ron said:
I'm going to apologize Its been hectic the last week. Multiple times I logged in here to double digit PMs asking for gen pricing or questions.
Tried to get back to everyone but I know I failed.

Can you refresh my memory on what you are looking for?
Click to expand...
Propane powered that will cover a 400 amp service.
 
All depends on budget.
For residential there is a had cost inflection point at 22kW. That is the top of the air cooled line.
You can buy a 22kW and a 200A SE rated ATS for <$5k delivered (not installed)
22kW Generac Guardian Home Standby Generator with 200A SE Rated ATS | 70432

If you absolutely need 400A it would eb cheaper to by two of those and split your 400A service into 2 200A panels utilizing a tap rule.
For example to go to a 45kW you are going to jump up into the $12-13k range

Youd have to dig into you loads a bit, and learn a little about your critical concerns, but Id bet you could get by with a 22kW and a couple of power manager modules

You can dig around on the norwall.com site and see different price points. I can beat their price, depending on which product depends on how much...some times substantially.

Feel free to shoot me a pm or a text 8zero3.6two7.9zero29 we can hop on the phone and talk out what you need easier than typing books back and forth and I know lots of flks in your area for all makes and models to get you a deal.
 
Have a 400 amp meter/ main combo that is split to a 200 amp panel that feeds the main part of the house, with a 100 amp panel that feeds the basement along with the HVAC system for the entire home, also feeds a 100 amp panel in my shop. How is the code written now as far as the generator covering the entire load? My understanding was the code changed requiring a generator to cover the entire load.
 
Generator required to cover 100% of the connected load IF USING AN ATS.

But the connected load doesnt necessarily mean the whole house. It means everything connected to the gen.

So if you ATS was between the meter/maina nd the 200A panel for example and the other (2) 100A werent tied to the ATS not required to run those. Make sense?
 
When I get time I’ll do some calculations for what we would like on it. The shop is not a concern so it’s going to be around 250-280 amps from what I remember when I built the house. Thanks for the help @Ron!
 
obullfish said:
When I get time I’ll do some calculations for what we would like on it. The shop is not a concern so it’s going to be around 250-280 amps from what I remember when I built the house. Thanks for the help @Ron!
Click to expand...

They also make little load shedding modules that will allow you to automatically reduce the connected load. So let's say you do a calc, and your actual demand is over the rated capacity. You can take the heat pump, the range, the electric water heater, etc, and run them through those modules, and the controller will prioritize power distribution between them to keep the total load down.
 
shawn said:
They also make little load shedding modules that will allow you to automatically reduce the connected load. So let's say you do a calc, and your actual demand is over the rated capacity. You can take the heat pump, the range, the electric water heater, etc, and run them through those modules, and the controller will prioritize power distribution between them to keep the total load down.
Click to expand...


Gee why didn't I think of that?


Ron said:
All depends on budget.
but Id bet you could get by with a 22kW and a couple of power manager modules
Click to expand...

:flipoff2:

For the more technically inclined egg heads...these things are one of those so simple WTF didnt I think of that.\
Generac supports up to 8 wireless LMM per genset. They are wireless.
In short how they work is they are a tiny contactor wired to a frequency meter. When a generator is over loaded rpms drop as the enginer struggles to keep up with demand. When RPM drops frequency drops by definition. So the LMM see a reduced frequency and open their contactor. There are 8 dip switches, thats what makes them wireless. You set priority levels and its just a time based deal. So at .3 (fr example) seconds of freqeucny drop module 1 opens, that should restore frequency, if not at .6 dip switch 2 drops etc. After X number of minutes of stability it tries to bring them back on. Really neat little system
 
I have an old Honda GX370 powered 6kw.

Have always kept stabilized fuel in it and non-ethanol (now use Sta-Bil 360 Marine in regular) and it runs perfect and uses no oil. When we used to do fireworks tents it would run 16hrs a day for 10 days. It ran nonstop 8 days during Fran and 4 during Floyd.

All this said, we are looking at something whole house.

I could go PTO (tractor is 18hp with 2 spd PTO) buddy has a 12kw unit he'll sell me for $500. This would mean tractor was tied up and possibly could need it for cleanup after a storm.

I have a buddy with a 10kw he says he'll give me that runs perfect and is electric start but does not generate electricity. He got it from an abandoned storage unit. He has a 12kw and doesn't want it. Could just need the drill trick or could be unfixable, won't know until I get it.

Could go whole home and just move it when we relocate in about 2.5 years.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
It'll probably all be a wash in the end...I'm not sure how much NG costs, to be honest.
Click to expand...
If he can run it on NG instead of propane, that is definitely the way to go. Cost per therm is waaaaay lower.

We have NG at the house, and I looked into getting a generator to run off of it. Problem is that I'd have to upgrade the service line size to accommodate the consumption rate, if the gas water heater and gas furnace were running at the same time.
And that is a really expensive proposition. Just that added cost pretty much negates any savings over just using old petrol.... except for the huge convenience difference of course.
 
RatLabGuy said:
If he can run it on NG instead of propane, that is definitely the way to go. Cost per therm is waaaaay lower.

We have NG at the house, and I looked into getting a generator to run off of it. Problem is that I'd have to upgrade the service line size to accommodate the consumption rate, if the gas water heater and gas furnace were running at the same time.
And that is a really expensive proposition. Just that added cost pretty much negates any savings over just using old petrol.... except for the huge convenience difference of course.
Click to expand...

Actually...

You shouldnt need to upgrade the main service line to the house.
You would need to T off at the meter and set a separate regulator.
Gens run on HVLP (High volume Low pressure)..varies a little model to model but roughly 7-11" WC (or less than .5psi) So you residential delivery should be a 2lb system. You can shove a lot of volume throuh a pipe at 2psi, then you set your tep down regulator and run a different line just from it to the gen.

BTW you will never beat an electric utility on cost. Not to any degree significant enough to run on it.
 
Ron said:
You shouldnt need to upgrade the main service line to the house.
Click to expand...

Even if you did, sometimes they'll upgrade your service for free or at a discount based on the expected increase in consumption.
 
obullfish said:
All appliances are gas except a double wall oven that isn’t used much except holidays.
Click to expand...

what do you have that is pulling an elec load to need 300a for your house with no elec appliances?
 
Took the generator to a guy. He looked at it. Said it was a bad/burnt valve. Brought it home. Pulled on it for just shits and giggles. It started and ran. Ran it about an hour today. Seemed to run good. Any reason that a valve would stick then unstick.

When it wouldn't start it felt like there was little to no compression. Now, it feels normal again.

Any thoughts?
 
Back
Top