Shackel Reversal
- Thread starter etjeep
- Start date
Rockwagon
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Location
- Greensboro NC
My opinion no. I had a wag and daily drove + trial rode for years with 4" springs and anywhere from 33"-36" tires after trimming some sheet metal. Handled great, front drive shaft never pulled out, tires didn't hit the firewall under compression. Later I ran it for a couple of years with a the 4" spring over, tons, 42" tires. It always worked great on or off road for me. The only shackle mod I made in the front was after the spring settled I had to use Chevy rear shackles. They were an inch longer and kept them from over extending and locking up. 
Rockwagon said:My opinion no. I had a wag and daily drove + trial rode for years with 4" springs and anywhere from 33"-36" tires after trimming some sheet metal. Handled great, front drive shaft never pulled out, tires didn't hit the firewall under compression. Later I ran it for a couple of years with a the 4" spring over, tons, 42" tires. It always worked great on or off road for me. The only shackle mod I made in the front was after the spring settled I had to use Chevy rear shackles. They were an inch longer and kept them from over extending and locking up.
Rockwagon,
I am currently running 4" Black Diamond Leaves up front with 36's. I am also running a high pinion D60 up front and want my pinion to point down more (yes I said down). My front drive shaft is too close to my starter and tranny (it works ok but is too close for comfort if/when the shaft breaks). With a rear shackle, I can adjust (experiment) with different length shackles. I was originally thinking of using a drop shackle (cut off and add a length of 2 1/2" receiver tubing). Since I would be removing, I thought why not just take the front fixed mounts off and reverse. I have read where the rear shackle set-up is more forgiving and lets the wheels go over rocks easier. I dunno, thats why I am asking this board.
Eric
Rockwagon
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2005
- Location
- Greensboro NC
Like I said My opinion. Every body that I personaly Know that has done a shackle reversal started having that drivshaft pulling out issue. Sure you build a long slip but that is more $ + time. I broke one spring center pin in all the years about 6 that I had the wag. I than reamed my springs up to 1/2" and ran a bigger pin. As far as the drivshaft issue you have. It cant be any closer than stock. If it does not hit the starter with your existing travel I wouldn't worry. I only broke one front shaft in my years and it hit the cross member I built first time out dented than rung off. Rear shafts were another story. Thanks for the info. I realize the spline may pull out if I design it for too much flex. Something to keep in mind. I am not trying to build a buggy flex-monster or anything. I could just lower the rear mount 2 1/2" and use a 4" shackle up front(its 3" up front now) , netting about 1" down on the pinion. I can shim the difference to get within 2-deg if needed.
I just wanted to check here if anyone had other opinions on the shackle reversal. Thanks for your input.
I just wanted to check here if anyone had other opinions on the shackle reversal. Thanks for your input.
Shackle reversal will work good with any 4x4 that has springs with some arch. Hardcore rock crawlers do not like the fact the the forward push is exerted on the front half of the spring which could banana the spring. With shackle in the front the forward force "pulls" the 4x4 up which is easier on the spring. What I do is put 15 degrees angle on the rear shackle to help the "pull" effect. The on-road pls is way better handling over bumps. The downside is a little bit of dive on panic braking which can be countered with stiffer shocks. I also think shackles in the rear helps if you are not running a track bar (like anybody with SOA ever does anyway). The steering does not push the shackles side-to side as much. Shackle reversal is good for SUA and a rig that is 50/50 on/off road IMO.
jdubb said:
I am running the Black Diamond 4" lift springs (no longer made) up front with the XT shocks (slow response, aka stiff) all around. Can you elaborate some on why the shackle up front pulls the axle up better off-raod than the rear shackle? I am trying to understand this a little better before making any changes.
We are still street legal, the beast is pretty much a trailer queen now and sees mostly my garage, I mean trails. I removed all the sway bars long ago and never looked back.
Rich
Asshole at large
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Location
- Central PA
etjeep said:
If no torque is being applied- with the rear shackle, as you hit a rock, the axle moves up and back, which is a natural reaction while moving forward. With a front shackle, the axle moves forward as it goes up, pushing back against the rock..
Thing is, when you're on it, the pinion tries to drop down, which tries to extend the front suspension, and a rear shackle lets this happen more easily.. It's a slight drawback.
The gain in ground clearance and approach angle is a HUGE bonus though...
etjeep said:
Basically, I was able to do a little more research about shackle reversal after first posting up on this topic and listened to what you had to say. I have concluded that I will not make this mod for several reasons summarized below;
1. Front shackles providing better traction, offroad.
2. Can live with "lower" on-road performance of front shackle.
3. Avoid long spline driveshaft mod
Thanks for the responses.
Ridgerunner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
- Location
- Fuquay Varina, NC
Eric,
I like mine the way it is Stock the only issue is that I need A little longer front shakel to keep it for flipping over when I flex. I get pretty good flex for what I have. I think you should look at what is limiting your flex first
I like mine the way it is Stock the only issue is that I need A little longer front shakel to keep it for flipping over when I flex. I get pretty good flex for what I have. I think you should look at what is limiting your flex first
Carl,Ridgerunner said:
The front flexes ok, but I would settle for more!
Could be shock limiting of course. I'll have to pull those shocks (Back Diamond XTs) and check the stroke when I get in there. I plan on going with a drop rear shackle in front (say ~2") with a longer shackle up (~4" from the 3" stocker) front to correct my high pinion angle. That should give me a delta of ~1" (dropping the rear 2" and pushing the front back up ~1") plus a little lift. Hard to explain in writing but you get the idea, I want a little more distance between the axle housing and the engine/tranny area. I have to work out the measurements first and there are always shims to correct if needed.As for the rear, I am definately doing a shackle flip and getting rid of the AAL set-up. All the sping clamps I have on there to hold the AAL in are not helping the leaves spread or flex. I want a flatter springier spring back there. Thats a different thread.
Later...
When I had my 95 YJ with SRS and 4 inch SUA springs, I had numerous compliments on the smooth ride from other guys with SUA Jeeps. I will tell you the "loss of traction" theory is just that, a lame theory. It stems from the new rock crawling school of thinking that applies to one percent of all the four wheeling you will see on the trails. The other 99 percent of the time is spent getting your teeth jarred out by that front mounted shackle. I spent a lot of time pondering the same issues and it is hard because the opinions out there are 50/50 on this topic. I even had a very prominent 4x4 business in the Charlotte area tell me SRS was crap. I am glad I ignored them. Remember, if it takes street bumps smooth it will take trail bumps smooth. I can only speak for the YJ though, so that doesnt really help you much anyway.