Sort of a mixed message.....

ManglerYJ

ManglerYJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Lexington, NC
We have people literally dying in the streets from heroin overdoses, so the Obama administration spends a ton of money on a "week" to build awareness: FACT SHEET: Obama Administration Announces Prescription Opioid and Heroin Epidemic Awareness Week, but then turns around and releases SCADS of drug offenders to the point that he has now released more then 11 past presidents combined: Obama commutes sentences of 102 inmates

I'm more pissed about this than anything else Obama has messed up. Between Cash for Clunkers, which obliterated the used car market, Obamacare, which has obliterated healthcare sector, what's left to screw up? well, at least we have good race relations.....
 
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ManglerYJ said:
We have people literally dying in the streets from heroin overdoses, so the Obama administration spends a ton of money on a "week" to build awareness: FACT SHEET: Obama Administration Announces Prescription Opioid and Heroin Epidemic Awareness Week, but then turns around and releases SCADS of drug offenders to the point that he has now released more then 11 past presidents combined: Obama commutes sentences of 102 inmates
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Well that's one way to raise awareness.
 
ManglerYJ said:
We have people literally dying in the streets from heroin overdoses, so the Obama administration spends a ton of money on a "week" to build awareness: FACT SHEET: Obama Administration Announces Prescription Opioid and Heroin Epidemic Awareness Week, but then turns around and releases SCADS of drug offenders to the point that he has now released more then 11 past presidents combined: Obama commutes sentences of 102 inmates
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I'm about news out for one week so I didn't read the story but I wonder how many of those are people that were convicted and sentenced for small quanities of dope?? You know the ones that Bill Clinton help put in jail w his anti crime legislation???
 
1-tonmudder said:
I'm about news out for one week so I didn't read the story but I wonder how many of those are people that were convicted and sentenced for small quanities of dope?? You know the ones that Bill Clinton help put in jail w his anti crime legislation???
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They are supposedly "victims" of the war on drugs with mandatory minimum sentences.
 
1-tonmudder said:
I'm about news out for one week so I didn't read the story but I wonder how many of those are people that were convicted and sentenced for small quanities of dope?? You know the ones that Bill Clinton help put in jail w his anti crime legislation???
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that's a big part of the problem. During the 80s and 90s (it started before Bill but he was the big push) there was a whole lot of zero-tolerance cases of people with non-violent drug offenses getting long sentences, which has led to major overcrowding and what some argue as the thinning out of adult male role models in black communities. Since then, sentencing requirements have relaxed substantially with more emphasis on actual rehab, but now you have lots of people sitting in jail with sentences that are much longer/sores than if they committed the same crime today.

So, I can kinda sorta see where this is coming from. However, the whole-hog large-scale commutal of so many sentences makes me really wonder how many of the cases are folks who have really been rehabilitated or truly should be free, it's hard to believe they can really give each case the attention it deserves for the evaluation, especially when the # of appeals has grown exponentially once word got out, yet Obama has still directly said they will review every case that makes it to them...
 
RatLabGuy said:
that's a big part of the problem. During the 80s and 90s (it started before Bill but he was the big push) there was a whole lot of zero-tolerance cases of people with non-violent drug offenses getting long sentences, which has led to major overcrowding and what some argue as the thinning out of adult male role models in black communities.
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Which would make one question just what kind of role model they were to start with.
 
Federalism or not, I find the "rehabilitated" pill a hard one to swallow when it depends what state you're in as to how rehabilitated you are :p
 
Thing is, they broke the law - they knew it was against the law and they did it anyway, knowing the potential consequences. These are NOT small time offenders. They were dealers. My ex-wife's cousin was one of them back in the day. He was one of the foremost dealers in Oakland County (Michigan) back in the early 90's. He was set up to sell selling 4 grams of cocaine to an undercover cop. He then came back to the same cop a couple days later and sold 40 grams. He was then arrested and charged and given a 4 to 20 year sentence. Because he was greedy, he would have continued selling to the same person as much as they asked for.

He served his 4 years and was released not a day sooner. Most other offenses could have "good time" meaning a 4 year sentence may be less than the 4 years if you are "good". Not trafficking. He was given an opportunity to roll on his suppliers in an effort to get a reduced sentence, but he knew that if he did, there would be a target on his back. Instead, he served his time and went home realizing how much of his life he wasted.

Now, the one thing I was upset about in all this is that the cop didn't arrest him for the 4 grams and be done with it. Because that would not warrant a "trafficking" charge. A police officer doesn't let you blow by a stop sign and follow you to see if you then also blow through a red light, too so he can give you a bigger ticket. They stop you for the first offense. But again, I doubt that he would have really learned a lesson if he was just arrested at the lower offense.
 
Also bear in mind..... these are FEDERAL prisoners he's releasing. Not a state or local prison camper.
 
Wait...if all the drug addicts die in the streets there won't be weak willed and weak minded drug addicts anymore. Then there won't be a market for drugs on the street. Win-win.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
benXJ said:
Wait...if all the drug addicts die in the streets there won't be weak willed and weak minded drug addicts anymore. Then there won't be a market for drugs on the street. Win-win.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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Problem is - weak minded drug addicts will resort to ANYTHING to get their drugs. While selling the drugs may be a "non-violent" crime, the ramifications of the drugs is what breeds the violence. I've worked in some of the worst gang infested neighborhoods in Detroit. The gang bangers never really scared me, even with me being unarmed. Now, a strung-out junkie on the other hand..... that scares the crap out of me. A PCP addict can have the strength of ten men when he's lit up. VERY unpredictable.
 
What if drugs were just, you know, legal.
Its my body, let em put in it what I want.
 
ManglerYJ said:
Problem is - weak minded drug addicts will resort to ANYTHING to get their drugs. While selling the drugs may be a "non-violent" crime, the ramifications of the drugs is what breeds the violence. I've worked in some of the worst gang infested neighborhoods in Detroit. The gang bangers never really scared me, even with me being unarmed. Now, a strung-out junkie on the other hand..... that scares the crap out of me. A PCP addict can have the strength of ten men when he's lit up. VERY unpredictable.
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Speeders are 10x more likely to kill folks in car accidents.
Lets lock up speeders for attempted murder even if there is no accident.


This is lazy regulation. When they break and enter, steal, rob, etc. THEN lock them up for a long time. Dont make the chemical compound the crime. Make the action.
 
What I was hinting at, is that let them have their drugs, tons of them. Then they'll do away with their own selves. We continue to save them and then they have to go get more drugs. If they weren't saved, then one less drug user. Obviously it's not the end all, but it wouldn't hurt.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
How about this...... we wall off a useless state.... one with square borders so that it's easier to wall off. Take Wyoming. Build a 30 foot tall wall around it. Round up all the drugs and all the users and put them in there. With Obama. They can do whatever they want in there just so long as they leave the rest of us alone. Escape from New York, just with a cleaner starting spot.

Or, we make junkie hunting a legal sport for a two week season.

Or we just cook them up and serve them with a side of fries. I think I've been reading "A Modest Proposal" too much. Darn you, Jonathon Swift and your good ideas!!!!
 
Ron said:
When they break and enter, steal, rob, etc. THEN lock them up for a long time. Dont make the chemical compound the crime. Make the action.
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This statement troubles me. While in the name of freedom, I agree...but on the other hand, I know there are plenty of victims as a result of a drug induced violent crime, that probably wish something would have pre-emptively stopped said violent crime.
 
UTfball68 said:
This statement troubles me. While in the name of freedom, I agree...but on the other hand, I know there are plenty of victims as a result of a drug induced violent crime, that probably wish something would have pre-emptively stopped said violent crime.
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This. Be tough on the SOURCE of crime. To go after it later is too man power intensive and leaves people victimized after the fact. Call it what you want, but that's how I see it. The only truly "non violent" crime I know of is tax evasion. And the democrats seem to want to be very tough on that.... not sure why everything else would get a pass.
 
UTfball68 said:
This statement troubles me. While in the name of freedom, I agree...but on the other hand, I know there are plenty of victims as a result of a drug induced violent crime, that probably wish something would have pre-emptively stopped said violent crime.
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Well we could prevent DUIs by outlawing alcohol. That would save a bunch of lives and crimes.
Better yet just outlaw cars they cause soooooo many crimes. I mean without cars we'd have no drive by shootings, no car theft, no speeding, no wrecks, no DUIs, etc etc etc.
I mean you clearly support gun control, right? Without guns think of all the crimes we could prevent.
 
Ron said:
Well we could prevent DUIs by outlawing alcohol. That would save a bunch of lives and crimes.
Better yet just outlaw cars they cause soooooo many crimes. I mean without cars we'd have no drive by shootings, no car theft, no speeding, no wrecks, no DUIs, etc etc etc.
I mean you clearly support gun control, right? Without guns think of all the crimes we could prevent.
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But the items you are listing are all currently legal. It's their misuse that causes the problems. Drugs are currently illegal. Legalizing them would make no difference in their level of addictiveness and the ramifications of their use and misuse.
 
ManglerYJ said:
But the items you are listing are all currently legal. It's their misuse that causes the problems. Drugs are currently illegal. Legalizing them would make no difference in their level of addictiveness and the ramifications of their use and misuse.
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I understand. My point was they should be legalized.
Alcohol, Tobacco, Caffeine all drugs we use daily with the same or worse levels of "addictiveness" as many illegal substances.

If you start to research why many illegal drugs are so, and who pushed for them to be so you'll be sad.
Many times it was an evil corporation or business owner getting a competing high outlawed.
 
Ron said:
Well we could prevent DUIs by outlawing alcohol. That would save a bunch of lives and crimes.
Better yet just outlaw cars they cause soooooo many crimes. I mean without cars we'd have no drive by shootings, no car theft, no speeding, no wrecks, no DUIs, etc etc etc.
I mean you clearly support gun control, right? Without guns think of all the crimes we could prevent.
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We could, but they're not (I think your questions are usually what you and shawn call straw man arguments). But to answer your questions, premeditation and conspiracy laws will get you arrested for an activity with negligent or malicious intent in those situations as well...just like getting arrested for a drug bust.
 
For the record, I don't really have an issue with recreational drug use...not something I'm in to...but have no issues with it. I think in a regulated fashion, it would be no worse than alcohol. Is the world perfect, no...is it realistic to think every heinous crime can be stopped, nope. But I do believe being proactive, rather than reactive is better.
 
Ron said:
I understand. My point was they should be legalized.
Alcohol, Tobacco, Caffeine all drugs we use daily with the same or worse levels of "addictiveness" as many illegal substances.

If you start to research why many illegal drugs are so, and who pushed for them to be so you'll be sad.
Many times it was an evil corporation or business owner getting a competing high outlawed.
Click to expand...


I won't argue with you on the effects of alcohol. I was once hit head-on by a drunk driver - It was her THIRD offense drunk driving and she was on her way home from work. We were able to go through her car since it was towed to the same yard as our car. She had tickets for that evening to take her kids to Aladdin on Ice. I was never told what happened to her after the fact, but I was never called to testify or anything. For all I know she is still out there driving. I was PISSED. Some judge felt it was a good idea to let her continue to drive after two strikes and it could have killed someone. Completely destroyed the vehicle I was driving.

I will argue that even under my worst caffeine binge or withdrawal, I have never contemplated any criminal activity.

Tobacco could fall off the face of the earth for all I care. Never took to it and actually can't stand the smell. Both step-daughters are chain smokers and always wreak of smoke. Neither me or my wife smoke, but my wife's ex-mother in law was always a 3 pack a day smoker and the girls were able to get them from her even as younger teenagers.

 
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