Spool guns for Aluminum vs Tig

[justjeepin86]

Ok, I'm looking in to options for my fuel tank that I'm going to build for my truck that I asked about here.... https://www.nc4x4.com/forum/threads/fuel-tank-to-driveshaft-clearance.200263/

I have done regular google foo reading, but want some first hand experience. I have a Miller 210 wire and have thought of a spool gun for years. I've haven't had a large enough project to make me buy one, but now I'm ready to be able to burn some aluminum. I'm trying to decide whether I would be happy enough with the spool gun or go all out and pick up a tig. Learning to tig better would obviously be really nice for steel too. I can't really justify the extra cost over the spool gun. That is if the off brands work well.

Long and short of it, how well do the spool guns work?

If I go tig, I'm looking at something like this everlast. How does the hobbiest sharpen tungsten without contamination? Shops I've worked in had tungsten sharpeners.

PowerTIG 185DV - TIG Welders | Everlast Generators

For the extra go anywhere capability, the Everlast PowerTIG185 DV delivers dual voltage capability that will enable you to operate virtually anywhere a power outlet is present. The digitally controlled IGBT inverter of PowerTIG 185DV delivers a smooth, steady arc, as good as any unit in it's...

www.everlastgenerators.com

 

[hurt4x4]

My vote would be for an everlast tig. I bought the 200dv recently and it does well.

Spool guns work for some things but I wouldn't trust myself to build a cell with one. Mainly due to cold starts and not being able to adjust amperage as the material heats up.

As far as tungsten contamination, I sharpen mine at work everyday with a belt sander and drill and never have any problems.

 

[XJsavage]

My vote would be for an everlast tig. I bought the 200dv recently and it does well.

Spool guns work for some things but I wouldn't trust myself to build a cell with one. Mainly due to cold starts and not being able to adjust amperage as the material heats up.

As far as tungsten contamination, I sharpen mine at work everyday with a belt sander and drill and never have any problems.

Yep.
The flexibility you get with AC TIG is unsurpassed. Spool gun Mig has its place but not on thinner material when you're shooting for .095, .100, or .125 Al for reasons mentioned here.
My fuel cell in the Jeep was built using a Millermatic 252 Al machine (push pull) with .035 and Argon shielding gas. The wall thickness is mostly .188 or .250. It's a heavy cell but it does the job. I occasionally find leaks showing up in the corners where a start took place.
My next cell with be TIGged 3xx stainless. I'm done with Al honestly.

 

[Falko]

If you want to come by you can try both a spool gun and a cheapo TIG (in my case a Primeweld 220). I'd be inclined to agree that the spool gun isn't the right tool for a cell; not enough control and aluminumis finicky. My TJ fenders on the other hand would have been much more time-consuming with a TIG so they both have their place.

PSA: I can't tig weld so there's that.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Your gonna want a larger amperage unit for GTAW aluminum.
.125 is gonna push that unit pretty good.

Spool on a standard Mig is not gonna be forgiving at all. Cold starts, over heated mid runs, feeder issues and a whole host of annoying traits will make you regret your purchase. Unless your gonna production weld a lot of gauge material. I wouldn't suggest the purchase......ever!

I have a unit connected to my 210. Might as well be an ornament. Got spoiled on much better push pull pulse units. It also struggles to get a good spray transfer on anything thicker than .125 .

Save your coin for a good GTAW unit. It will do so many more things than bubble gum aluminum wire.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Yep.
The flexibility you get with AC TIG is unsurpassed. Spool gun Mig has its place but not on thinner material when you're shooting for .095, .100, or .125 Al for reasons mentioned here.
My fuel cell in the Jeep was built using a Millermatic 252 Al machine (push pull) with .035 and Argon shielding gas. The wall thickness is mostly .188 or .250. It's a heavy cell but it does the job. I occasionally find leaks showing up in the corners where a start took place.
My next cell with be TIGged 3xx stainless. I'm done with Al honestly.

Funny you mentioned yours being heavy. My personal unit is all 3/16. All tanks and or fuel cells I have built have been the same. I refuse to go thinner. The weight difference vs. the strength and fatigue difference is a no brainer. The outside corner joints and the poor choice of many to fuse them makes anything thinner incredibly weak. By stepping up your force the feed some material into the puddle. The cross section of weld and fusion makes all the difference.

 

[XJsavage]

Your gonna want a larger amperage unit for GTAW aluminum.
.125 is gonna push that unit pretty good.

Spool on a standard Mig is not gonna be forgiving at all. Cold starts, over heated mid runs, feeder issues and a whole host of annoying traits will make you regret your purchase. Unless your gonna production weld a lot of gauge material. I wouldn't suggest the purchase......ever!

I have a unit connected to my 210. Might as well be an ornament. Got spoiled on much better push pull pulse units. It also struggles to get a good spray transfer on anything thicker than .125 .

Save your coin for a good GTAW unit. It will do so many more things than bubble gum aluminum wire.

That, and the options for Al wire is either 4043 or 5356. There may be others, but a rule of thumb is to weld with a lighter alloy filler than the base. And 4043 wire in .035 is like playing with yarn.

 

[XJsavage]

Miller Millermatic 252 High Output MIG Welder, High Voltage Package -

The Millermatic 252 907322 MIG welder is an all-in-one package. This High Voltage 252 can connect up to to 575V. Aluminum spoolgun and push pull gun compatible.

bakersgas.com

This is the actual machine we use at work. Ours is hooked to 480. It also has about $1000 in upgrades done to it mostly in the 12' gun lead, (fully socked), improved rollers, etc.
With that machine, I'd almost tackle an Al fuel cell with it, but more than likely I'd call up my buddy with an AC TIG rig instead.
There's no way in hell I'd spend $4000-5000 for an Al MIG rig unless I was running a side business flipping 5-7 boat repairs a week. It would never pay for itself.

 

[justjeepin86]

Your gonna want a larger amperage unit for GTAW aluminum.
.125 is gonna push that unit pretty good.

Spool on a standard Mig is not gonna be forgiving at all. Cold starts, over heated mid runs, feeder issues and a whole host of annoying traits will make you regret your purchase. Unless your gonna production weld a lot of gauge material. I wouldn't suggest the purchase......ever!

I have a unit connected to my 210. Might as well be an ornament. Got spoiled on much better push pull pulse units. It also struggles to get a good spray transfer on anything thicker than .125 .

Save your coin for a good GTAW unit. It will do so many more things than bubble gum aluminum wire.

That is the kind of info I'm after. I was aware that aluminum required more amperage, but I didn't think that .125 would be bad for that machine looking at the specs. I'm not a knowledgeable source though. Also, I may look at doing it heavier. I'm going to research some of the tank coatings for steel too. I would still rather have aluminum, I think. But if I did steel, I would still want to tig it. I guess that answers my question about a spool gun in itself.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

That is the kind of info I'm after. I was aware that aluminum required more amperage, but I didn't think that .125 would be bad for that machine looking at the specs. I'm not a knowledgeable source though. Also, I may look at doing it heavier. I'm going to research some of the tank coatings for steel too. I would still rather have aluminum, I think. But if I did steel, I would still want to tig it. I guess that answers my question about a spool gun in itself.

As a note. I own a Dynasty 200 Miller. I also have large amounts of hood time in Dynasty 300, Lincoln equivalent in both sides....and tried and true Syncrowave Miller's from 250 to 350 ranges....it and many semesters s as a student running Lincoln Squarewave technology.

Me I'm partial to big ol transformer machines. I regret not buying one of those powerhogs over my "static electricity" inverter. However the inverters shine at tunability, pulse, wave manipulation, and all the other tricks that turn average operators into tech supported welding wizzards.

I have shop power capable of running a big transformer. Before I did not. Another huge gain for inverters.

 

[catfishblues]

As a note. I own a Dynasty 200 Miller. I also have large amounts of hood time in Dynasty 300, Lincoln equivalent in both sides....and tried and true Syncrowave Miller's from 250 to 350 ranges....it and many semesters s as a student running Lincoln Squarewave technology.

Me I'm partial to big ol transformer machines. I regret not buying one of those powerhogs over my "static electricity" inverter. However the inverters shine at tunability, pulse, wave manipulation, and all the other tricks that turn average operators into tech supported welding wizzards.

I have shop power capable of running a big transformer. Before I did not. Another huge gain for inverters.

I'll trade you my Syncrowave 250 for your Dynasty!

I picked up an Omnipro 220 from Harbor Freight as a wedding present to my wife and I. It wound up at my shop rather than my home, and hasn't made it back. Quite an impressive little unit. I set it up with a TIG rig and foot pedal, plus an SSC 4-step finger control. Very versatile. Then we got a job making a bunch of framework out of 1/8 wall square aluminum, so I rolled the dice on the $200 spool gun. Holy hell! The setup was simple, it welds really well, and the strength has been fantastic. It has performed flawlessly, going against all the horror stories I've heard about spool guns. We had looked into getting one for our MM210, but they're rare and expensive. You could about pick up an Omnipro or a Migmax 215 and a spool gun from HF for the same price as a spool gun for the MM210. Would I trust it over TIG for a fuel cell? That's tough. I'm pretty good with it. I'd consider it, but I'd have to do some experimenting first to see how airtight I could get the welds, especially starts and stops.

 

[justjeepin86]

If you want to come by you can try both a spool gun and a cheapo TIG (in my case a Primeweld 220). I'd be inclined to agree that the spool gun isn't the right tool for a cell; not enough control and aluminumis finicky. My TJ fenders on the other hand would have been much more time-consuming with a TIG so they both have their place.

PSA: I can't tig weld so there's that.

I appreciate the offer. I may take you up on that one day. Oh, I have only tig welded a couple of times and suck at it. But, I'll never get better if I don't do it.

I'll trade you my Syncrowave 250 for your Dynasty!

I picked up an Omnipro 220 from Harbor Freight as a wedding present to my wife and I. It wound up at my shop rather than my home, and hasn't made it back. Quite an impressive little unit. I set it up with a TIG rig and foot pedal, plus an SSC 4-step finger control. Very versatile. Then we got a job making a bunch of framework out of 1/8 wall square aluminum, so I rolled the dice on the $200 spool gun. Holy hell! The setup was simple, it welds really well, and the strength has been fantastic. It has performed flawlessly, going against all the horror stories I've heard about spool guns. We had looked into getting one for our MM210, but they're rare and expensive. You could about pick up an Omnipro or a Migmax 215 and a spool gun from HF for the same price as a spool gun for the MM210. Would I trust it over TIG for a fuel cell? That's tough. I'm pretty good with it. I'd consider it, but I'd have to do some experimenting first to see how airtight I could get the welds, especially starts and stops.

That Omnipro isn't a cheap welder. Much more expensive than I thought it would be. I know they are high now, but I paid 1150 new for my miller 210. I am concerned about the cell with a spool gun. I guess if I got one and there were leaks at the start and stop points, I could have a buddy hit those areas with a tig to seal it up. I really feel like i'm heading down the tig worm hole now.

 

[catfishblues]

I appreciate the offer. I may take you up on that one day. Oh, I have only tig welded a couple of times and suck at it. But, I'll never get better if I don't do it.

That Omnipro isn't a cheap welder. Much more expensive than I thought it would be. I know they are high now, but I paid 1150 new for my miller 210. I am concerned about the cell with a spool gun. I guess if I got one and there were leaks at the start and stop points, I could have a buddy hit those areas with a tig to seal it up. I really feel like i'm heading down the tig worm hole now.

It's not exactly cheap, but it does pretty much everything our 210 does and then some in a much smaller package. And if I have a remote job, I can throw it in the back of the truck and run it off a genny. It's paid for itself many times over.

 

[Chris_Keziah]

If looking for the hobbyists level tig I would not overlook AHP's 201xd. Just went on sale since they put out a new model. The Fabricator Series and Weld.com have a few vids on it.

Easiest/cheapest way to sharpen tungsten is a dedicated hard rock on a 4.5" grinder and a drill.

 

[jeepyjman]

If looking for the hobbyists level tig I would not overlook AHP's 201xd. Just went on sale since they put out a new model. The Fabricator Series and Weld.com have a few vids on it.

Easiest/cheapest way to sharpen tungsten is a dedicated hard rock on a 4.5" grinder and a drill.

I have also heard great things about the primeweld

 

[justjeepin86]

If looking for the hobbyists level tig I would not overlook AHP's 201xd. Just went on sale since they put out a new model. The Fabricator Series and Weld.com have a few vids on it.

Easiest/cheapest way to sharpen tungsten is a dedicated hard rock on a 4.5" grinder and a drill.

That's a great price. I'll have to research that one today, for sure. Thanks man

 

[Chris_Keziah]

That's a great price. I'll have to research that one today, for sure. Thanks man

Mine will be here in a few days if you want to swing by next week and take a look at it.

I have also heard great things about the primeweld

Yup, I just didn't see spending an extra $200 on it vs the AHP.

 

[rattlecanpaint]

I just bought the Omnipro a few months ago. Very new to welding but the reviews seemed like a good hobby starter at the least. My plan is to build a Overland pop top style camper out of aluminum. I got the spool gun at the same time since I could add it to the 0% interest deal they have going on. Got a tank of Argon and now am waiting on the tax refund to pay off the welder and buy the materials. (I've seen one guy on Youtube that built one similar to what I want for about $3k. (vs the $6-15k for a pre built one) I figure it'll be good to build some sliders and bumpers with as well so I am using that to justify the cost of the welder. I haven't messed with it a whole lot since it's cold out there but so far I'm liking it. I guess my question would be do you think starting out on aluminum is a good idea? I've welded very little steel but enough to make a decent looking weld that holds.

 

[Tom@Hilltop_Machine]

I bought a cheap 5” bench grinder from Harbor Freight. It is a designated tungsten grinder.

 

[timber]

If looking for the hobbyists level tig I would not overlook AHP's 201xd. Just went on sale since they put out a new model. The Fabricator Series and Weld.com have a few vids on it.

Easiest/cheapest way to sharpen tungsten is a dedicated hard rock on a 4.5" grinder and a drill.

Alright, will try that trick as well for sharpening the tungsten.

 

[Croatan_Kid]

We've got this stuff at work called "Purple Jesus"....I'll grab you a tube of that and you can just stick everything together and won't need a welder. You may need a preacher if it ever has to come apart though.

 

[justjeepin86]

Well, i ended up going with the Prime Weld. Honestly, the only reason i went with it over the AHP was the warranty shipping terms. I'm confident the machine are similar, but wanted the peace of mind. It showed up yesterday.