Stock market investments now or later and who?
- Thread starter rockcity
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Deplorable
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 13, 2017
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- Asheville
Nah. It’s easy to get market returns by buying low cost index funds that track the market. As @Ron mentioned, VTI is a great offering.
Even with my stock/bond mix, I managed 21%for 2024. My expense ratios are extremely low, so I keep the growth and don’t pay other costs (Vanguard, Fidelity and many others offer free transactions). Buy and hold. Don’t chase past performances. Avoid fads.
Investing is simple.
drkelly
Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
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- Mar 21, 2005
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- Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
I've had my 401k 100% in an S&P500 index fund for over 2 decades. I have been VERY happy with the performance.
I have a mix of stocks and funds in my E-trade account. Most of it is in VOO and QQQ. I've done VERY well the past few years with META, COST, and CCL. I'm no Oracle of Omaha though as I have my share of losers too and that is why the majority of the money in that account is in those two index funds.
I have a mix of stocks and funds in my E-trade account. Most of it is in VOO and QQQ. I've done VERY well the past few years with META, COST, and CCL. I'm no Oracle of Omaha though as I have my share of losers too and that is why the majority of the money in that account is in those two index funds.
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Robinhood screwed everyone over during the GameStop surge.
GameStop short squeeze - Wikipedia
They weren't the only one, but they appear to have been the first. And that's left a bad taste in everyone's mouth over them.
RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
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- May 18, 2005
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- Churchville, MD
I still have Doge in RobinhoodRobinhood screwed everyone over during the GameStop surge.
GameStop short squeeze - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
They weren't the only one, but they appear to have been the first. And that's left a bad taste in everyone's mouth over them.
but that's it
rcalexander105
JV Wheeler
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This!
I’m also wondering what you bought for those commissions. Sounds like some A shares with higher front-end loads.
benXJ
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 5, 2005
- Location
- Raleigh NC
Robinhood screwed everyone over during the GameStop surge.
GameStop short squeeze - Wikipedia
They weren't the only one, but they appear to have been the first. And that's left a bad taste in everyone's mouth over them.
Robinhood was just the platform (yes, with a giant user base)....GME was volatile on all day trading platforms and trading was throttled/stopped for a short time
The common man being able to trade vast sums in an instant will cause these issues in the future.....long gone are the days of calling someone to make a trade and it slowly making its way through
RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
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- May 18, 2005
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- Churchville, MD
The government 401k (TSP) has internally managed funds. The C fund is targetted to match the S&P 500 and the S fund is targetted to match the Dow Jones. My allocation last year was 50/50 each and I averaged 20.5%.
Franklin
Well-Known Member
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- Mar 21, 2005
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- Hickory NC
DISCLAIMER NO ADVICE GIVEN
I am a Financial Advisor w Merrill Lynch here in Hickory and the first questions I ask anyone are: 1.what is the goal/trying to accomplish (we break down various strategies for different goals) 2. level of risk, 3. liquidity needs and 4. time horizon.
Risk level is "usually" determined by liquidity needs w time horizon playing a secondary factor. Example: As most Clients get to or in retirement stage they may decrease risk levels unless they have income sources that covers current expenses. At that point they may shift risk higher if there are no liquidity needs. The reverse is also true as well but not as common as you think if the person has been actively planning/ investing for this time.
Picking different portfolios and moving things around is 10-15% of the job once we develop a comprehensive plan that takes into account all factors. The rest of the equation is risk mitigation, modifying the plan based on life events and making sure the Clients sleep well at night after we have addressed their concerns. I greatly enjoy helping people navigate their finances and have seen the impact of both good and bad Advisors in my family.
I 10000% fully believe in DIY investing as well and most of my Clients do. I call it Core & Explore where we handle Core assets and Clients Explore how/where they want on our no cost platform Merrilledge.com
BUT there are things in life that can truly benefit people and having an Advisor is one depending on the situation. I am not a doctor or lawyer or a guy that can build buggies and trucks like many on here and I'm keenly aware of my limitations in those areas. You talented fawks piss me off btw
I am a Financial Advisor w Merrill Lynch here in Hickory and the first questions I ask anyone are: 1.what is the goal/trying to accomplish (we break down various strategies for different goals) 2. level of risk, 3. liquidity needs and 4. time horizon.
Risk level is "usually" determined by liquidity needs w time horizon playing a secondary factor. Example: As most Clients get to or in retirement stage they may decrease risk levels unless they have income sources that covers current expenses. At that point they may shift risk higher if there are no liquidity needs. The reverse is also true as well but not as common as you think if the person has been actively planning/ investing for this time.
Picking different portfolios and moving things around is 10-15% of the job once we develop a comprehensive plan that takes into account all factors. The rest of the equation is risk mitigation, modifying the plan based on life events and making sure the Clients sleep well at night after we have addressed their concerns. I greatly enjoy helping people navigate their finances and have seen the impact of both good and bad Advisors in my family.
I 10000% fully believe in DIY investing as well and most of my Clients do. I call it Core & Explore where we handle Core assets and Clients Explore how/where they want on our no cost platform Merrilledge.com
BUT there are things in life that can truly benefit people and having an Advisor is one depending on the situation. I am not a doctor or lawyer or a guy that can build buggies and trucks like many on here and I'm keenly aware of my limitations in those areas. You talented fawks piss me off btw
Dump Edward Jones. They are the McDonalds of investment firms; they splatter them all over (multiple offices in the same towns), all their advisors are just system pawns, they sell their own "products", and many really have no business being in the business. I am with an independent firm that is actually a fiduciary and could not be happier. I was with Edward Jones for about 15 months. They bait and switched us on the advisor, cost my wife a lot of money by placing her rollover IRA into the wrong type of account so they could harvest fees, their paperwork was onerous with all the signatures, and after everything fell apart they could not even offer an apology because they did not care about us or our money. Find someone local that is independent and has some references.Did minimal searching on here and this thread came up, so I figured I would revive it from 2008.
So I have a 401k through Edward Jones from a previous employer, I do add to it still though. I invested some funds to EJ as it was better than sitting in my bank account doing nothing. Now, I would like to invest in some (more) stocks, but EJ makes it a pain, plus, they charge fees. I have a mutual fund that is making 4.8-5% currently which I can't complain, but wanting to take some of the funds out of it to put in stocks.
I have read about 'free' apps and such that allow online trading, but I'd rather have first hand experience than going off what some online reviewer says.
EJ charged about $100 to buy $5k in stock, and I think there is a fee to sell it as well.
I already have some Nvidia stock, but looking to buy maybe Wolfspeed, maybe Marvell.
Wolfspeed is in a tough spot. They are so incredibly over-leveraged right now. In 2021 their net revenues were barely half a billion and they are still trying to get their $3-4B plant online. Their stock is barely a fraction of where it was just a couple years ago, but I do not see it getting back there any year soon.
rcalexander105
JV Wheeler
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2017
- Location
- High Point
This couldn't be further from the truth, it's almost laughable how blatantly wrong you are.
I will keep this factual and not glean my opinion on your ignorance. I'm an advisor with Jones and also a fiduciary so can't start throwing that card around acting like independent firms are the only ones that are fiduciaries (fwiw, I'm also a licensed CPA in NC with a Masters' from Wake Forest's business school - hopefully that's enough qualification for me to be in the business).
- Multiple offices bc of their strategy of reaching your main street investors and not corporate c-suite or institutional investors.
- Advisors being system pawns is blasphemy
- We don't sell our own "products"; the funds I use are also accessible to you whether you want to buy it at your current firm or through an online brokerage platform & they all start with JP, Goldman, Invesco, TRP, etc.
- I can tell you right now our compliance is 2nd to none so it's pretty hard to believe your rollover fell victim to "churning" (placing excess trades to generate excessive commissions)
- The paperwork goes hand in hand w/ compliance; your independent firm probably doesn't have as much because they don't have somebody looking our for your best interest (oh, but they told you they were a fiduciary so that probably makes you sleep better at night)
^ this guy nailed it. First question when ppl ask what they should do with [$fill in the blank money] is...what's the money for? There's enough info out there now days that my 9 y/o could invest on his own, but a good advisor will help put a plan in place and help avoid pitfalls that most ppl don't even know exist.DISCLAIMER NO ADVICE GIVEN
I am a Financial Advisor w Merrill Lynch here in Hickory and the first questions I ask anyone are: 1.what is the goal/trying to accomplish (we break down various strategies for different goals) 2. level of risk, 3. liquidity needs and 4. time horizon.
Risk level is "usually" determined by liquidity needs w time horizon playing a secondary factor. Example: As most Clients get to or in retirement stage they may decrease risk levels unless they have income sources that covers current expenses. At that point they may shift risk higher if there are no liquidity needs. The reverse is also true as well but not as common as you think if the person has been actively planning/ investing for this time.
Picking different portfolios and moving things around is 10-15% of the job once we develop a comprehensive plan that takes into account all factors. The rest of the equation is risk mitigation, modifying the plan based on life events and making sure the Clients sleep well at night after we have addressed their concerns. I greatly enjoy helping people navigate their finances and have seen the impact of both good and bad Advisors in my family.
I 10000% fully believe in DIY investing as well and most of my Clients do. I call it Core & Explore where we handle Core assets and Clients Explore how/where they want on our no cost platform Merrilledge.com
BUT there are things in life that can truly benefit people and having an Advisor is one depending on the situation. I am not a doctor or lawyer or a guy that can build buggies and trucks like many on here and I'm keenly aware of my limitations in those areas. You talented fawks piss me off btw
At the end of the day, find an advisor that you can trust and somebody that takes an interest in who you are and what you're trying to accomplish and not the guy just trying to get your money in the door.
Clearly I touched a nerve. What you have with me is an example of a bad experience being shared over and over as a cautionary tale and I do not want anytime else to have the same thing happen to them. It was not a personal attack as clearly I do not know you and you are not the people I dealt with at Edward Jones.
I was with Ameriprise for many, many years but moved around and my advisor was half a country away and I wanted to get someone local. Coincidentally I got married and my wife had a handful of orphaned accounts so it only made sense to get a new, local advisor and consolidate everything. On a recommendation from one of my closest friends I went to an Edward Jones office about 30 minutes away to sit down with the advisor there. She was a math major with a statistics and finance background and all the "normal" credentials for the industry. Got along well, sure sign us up. Then the paperwork started. Probably 5-8x the amount of stuff to sign, e-sign, authorize, etc. My wife had a few things that we rolled together into a traditional IRA that was supposed to be under one of their management products that was largely hands off and minimum of fees because we could not add funds to it. Again, more paperwork. We started the process in a July and did not have everything completely done until around October. All very friendly and accommodating during the "enrollment" period.
About two months in I realize that the IRA balance is shrinking and when I review statements they had put the account into the wrong product type and it was pulling free for transactions and monthly management. No refunds and no apology, and I had to go in and sign more paperwork to get them to fix it.
Finally things are settled and rolling, the market is the market so no judgement on "performance" as I have actively invested since the early 2000s and it doesn't matter who you are with but what you have for investments. The period we were with them was too short to judge.
I will eagerly disagree on the comment about products. What Edward Jones sells are service "products". Maybe you think I am confusing the idea that it was an EJ fund or something like Vanguard or Fidelity has. Not what I am referring to. There is a very specific set of program points for the products and what they will and will not do to advise and manage as well as what the fee structures are for everything. Very prescriptive and restrictive.
Fast forward to June and I get an email notice that my advisor has moved offices (still local) but now I have new advisor. The guy has no finance or investing background (instead, retail management). I call my old advisor's new office, leave a message for her to call me. My old office says my accounts stayed at their physical office. I wait a week, call my old advisor again. Again, no return call. I send an email, no reply. So I am now being ghosted by my old advisor that I just spent an exorbitant amount of time with getting all our accounts set up and whom established trust with me during the enrollment process. Another week passes so I call again, get the admin, again. I ask her to make sure that my old advisor calls me. She says, quite bluntly, "she is not going to call you.". That was the end. I sent another email, telling my old advisor that it was inexcusable to not return my calls, that I had hired her, not Edward Jones, to manage my finances, and that I would be taking my business elsewhere. No reply.
A week later I get an email from corporate with my email below it attached and it pretty much said "this is the way it is" and left it at that. We pulled everything out of Edward Jones after I got another recommendation for a local, independent firm (they use Cetera for all the back end with and "paperwork") and I could not be happier. They are always upfront and honest, tell me things straight, and act like I am valued whenever I have interaction with them. A class act. I am sure other EJ offices are not like where I was but I just gave you my experience. EJ treated me like a number, held me to a physical office instead of letting me stay with the advisor, then went ghost. Total crap show. After relating my experience to my closet friend that recommended me to them he actually admitted they did the same thing to him years before but he lucked into another good person (my old advisor). The new one he is meh on but not as involved or invested at I am with this stuff (apparently).
So there you have it. Glad you are doing right by folks but that is not EJ, that is you.
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Deplorable
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 13, 2017
- Location
- Asheville
Agree about EJ.
Serious question- why do I need an advisor? They don’t know what the market is doing anymore than anyone else. That’s evident by all the predictions. Occasionally they get it right, sure. The majority underperform the market though. So why not pick a good asset allocation for my age and risk tolerance, then invest in the market (low cost index funds)? Investing is mostly behavioral- don’t panic and sell low then buy high. Keep contributing and holding. Over decades, you will be just fine…
Serious question- why do I need an advisor? They don’t know what the market is doing anymore than anyone else. That’s evident by all the predictions. Occasionally they get it right, sure. The majority underperform the market though. So why not pick a good asset allocation for my age and risk tolerance, then invest in the market (low cost index funds)? Investing is mostly behavioral- don’t panic and sell low then buy high. Keep contributing and holding. Over decades, you will be just fine…
Generally speaking most folks get better performance overall using an advisor and they help you figure out how to use all the tools at your disposal to maximize overall returns. It also helps to have someone take the emotional quotient out of the equation, because let us be honest, as rational as most people are when it comes to money most people get pretty emotional about it.
Advisors also help you tailor your portfolio to match your goals. Most folks simply do not have the experience and background to craft something that works as best as it can.
EugeneTheTJ
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 4, 2010
- Location
- North Carolina
ETFs not individual.
VOO
VUG
Etc etc
VOO
VUG
Etc etc
Wes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2007
- Location
- Ridgeway, SC
What are my goals?: Money
What is my timeline?: I want it now
What do I want to accomplish?: to spend it/buy stuff.
What is my timeline?: I want it now
What do I want to accomplish?: to spend it/buy stuff.
skyhighZJ
Gov retirement < needs to live
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Location
- Aberdeen, NC.
So I saw this pop up and made me curious. 2yrs yrs ago our company started a simple IRA program to replace the profit sharing. I contribute $50 every two weeks out of my paycheck. The company matches. So, $100 every 2 weeks. Basic math says 100 every 2 weeks and 26 biweekly payments = 2600 When I signed up I told the guy “sure just put it somewhere” lol. Got an email this morning about quarterly revenue report. I’ve honestly never even logged in to check anything. Its current balance is $7,600 ish. Not ballin but seems a pretty good return.
It’s through Capital Group/ Lincoln Financial..
It’s through Capital Group/ Lincoln Financial..
Anything tracking the S&P 500 over the last two years will show returns near 50%. You are at about 46% which is in line. This is atypical of the long term performance of the market but it does help your account get a good jump start out of the gate. Just do not get too disappointed when a market correction wipes away some of the dollar value. You will still have the shares so stay in and eventually it will grow past that. I think I lost 50% of my 401k back in 2009-10 but I did not panic and left everything doing is thing and kept contributing and today that account is the cornerstone of my retirement. I do have a Roth IRA and non retirement investment to balance the strategy as well as a small pension. You need money for short-, mid-, and long-term goals depending on age and needs. Thus it takes a portfolio with different financial instruments to meet all of those. Hence, an advisor to help you navigate it all.
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skyhighZJ
Gov retirement < needs to live
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Location
- Aberdeen, NC.
So for some more background I guess. This is just whatever money. I already have a full Army retirement and 100% VA pymt rolling in every month plus my maxed out TSP (thrift savings plan) through the army that’s just sitting since my retirement 2 yea ago. I’m also working 45-50 + hrs a week at $37.50/hr (time and a half after 40). Just thought it was cool to have doubled a pretty minimal investment over the last 2 yrs. going in totally blind and doing NOTHING with it except shelling out $50 every 2 weeks.
Crushing it!
DSM Turbos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
But yet over time the S&P500 beats most advisors in the long run, so really you you can be better off likely in the long run just investing in the index fund.
I'm just hoping my advisor is better are harvesting the losses and making it worth it long term.
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skyhighZJ
Gov retirement < needs to live
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Location
- Aberdeen, NC.
Well I ain’t eating caviar and drinking champagne by any means but it’s nice to see my money doing something. I’m still trying to figure out the whole TSP thing. Haven’t really figured out how to turn it into a tangible asset to either reinvest or just pull it to dump on my mortgage os other debt hanging over my head….
rcalexander105
JV Wheeler
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- Nov 3, 2017
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No nerves touched here. You just have to understand this is what I do to put food on the table for my family and just because you had a bad experience (and it sounds like you most certainly did) doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and let you degrade my business with a blanket statement broadcasted to the masses about all advisors that work for Jones. You don't know if I have clients, or prospective clients, that may read what you posted and start second guessing having accounts with me because I operate under the Jones umbrella. Maybe you enjoy McDonalds, but it's bottom of the barrel as far as I'm concerned, and to compare what I do for my clients to THAT is something any self-respecting man would take exception to. No more no less.
I can't say I'd feel much different that you based on your experience given the situation you described. Ultimately, it boils down to what I said in the last statement earlier. Find somebody that you can trust & that takes interest in you and what you're trying to accomplish.
You're not wrong. Oftentimes, this is actually the best directions for clients. If you like index tied ETFs for low internal costs and enjoy a DIY approach, this may be the best fit (fwiw, you can also do that with Jones and work directly with an advisor that you like and trust). But you have to understand you are 100% tied to the market and you will ride that volatility as long as that's what you choose to hold (as opposed to a 80/20, 65/35, 50/50, 30/70 allocated portfolio and understanding when and why you need to be in each). Not to mention it's not one size fits all and the investing world is as clear as mud to most (and to @OnlyOneDR 's point) so they can help navigate the emotional and rational side of getting to where you want to be (helping identify your goals and mapping out a road to get there).
Most people think of old school brokers as being synonymous with today's financial advisor; however, that's simply not the case. A good advisor going to take an interest in you and make sure the products and services they're providing are specific to your situation and what you're trying to accomplish. A lot of people say "I'm just trying to accomplish making more money", my response is always..."okay, to what end?". Again, what is the money for? Do we want to spend it or give it away because, when it all comes to an end, those are your options. A good advisor is going to help you plan for where you are today and where you wants to be, then lay out a plan on how you get there. They're also going to help you minimize your lifetime tax liability. Tax loss harvesting is real and most don't understand it even on the surface level. A good advisor is going to partner w/ your third-party professionals (CPAs, attorneys, etc.) to make sure you're getting exactly what you need and all your bases are covered (don't assume those ppl have your best interest at heart or understand all the pieces of the puzzle). They're also going to make sure you're adequately protected from any unexpected events to make sure it doesn't wreck the plans you both established to get where you want to be.
RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Location
- Churchville, MD
What is there to figure out? Why touch it? Which funds are you invested in? Like in my case, if you do a split between C and S funds you're basically atching the top primary markets and will have returns that run akin to it (good and bad). Or switch to one of their managed target retirement year portfolios and never worry about it. (those are designed to change the risk over time so it is ideally "ready" by a target year when you plan to start pulling out),
TSP is just a fancy 401k. If you're not to the minimum retirement age yet (IIRC you got a way to go) then you can only withdraw for very specific things or get a big penalty hit on taxes. And unless your mortgage is a rediculous rate and/or your other dets are really high interest (like credir cards) you're making may higher returns in the TSP than you are paying in debt, so that's not a good trade.
E.g. if you have mortgage at 5% and your TSP is gaining 11%, then between them your net gain is still 6%. Think of debts as just negative investments and sum them up and go with combos that keep the sum in positive numbers.