SunTop for 4Runner

[RatLabGuy]

I scored a great deal on an old soft top for my 4Runner.
It apparently is a "SunTop", made by a small operation that closed up a long time ago (like early 2000s).

I know it's a long shot, but does anybody here happen to own one? Or, know where I might find several pics of the mounting system?

What I have is only the fabric and hoops, and am missing the L-channels that run along the bedsides that is snaps to, as well as the brackets that the hoops mount to. Some pics I found googling around suggests there also should be something that goes on the corners on either side of the tailgate. I'm sure I can fabricate what is needed, but I don't know exactly what is missing or where it goes.

Unfortunately info on these is scant, with lots of old PBB, 4x4wire and ORC threads talking about them with dead picture links (which I'm sure would show what I need).

All that aside, its a super cool top, as it seems to be able to easily detach from the cab (via Velcro) and fold back like a convertible, but uses the factory glass for the rear instead of a roll-up window.

Looks like this installed:

 

[skyhighZJ]

Nothing useful except that’s a really nice looking top! I hope you find/figure out the mystery!

 

[RatLabGuy]

OK, following up on this.
I have done a TON searching, and think I have hit the bottom of the barrel on info. No replies on any of the forums to my inquires for info. I have downloaded about a half dozen photos which is all I have to work off of.

So, I'm going to use this thread (which already top Google searches on the topic, thanks to power of NC4x4 popularity) to document what info there is to be had, and my process of piecing one back together.

All I know about the company and production is that it was a small father+son team, run back in the nineties. Seems they closed up sometime around 95-9 or so. Estimates are that only around 500 of these tops were made. All hand made to order. So it's kind of cool to hold something of that rarity.

The original "kit" included the soft top, a bikini top, and a nice "boot" cover to go over the frame when you had it folded back. Made of canvas, with very thick vinyl windows. It is designed so that the front of the canvas attaches to a channel over cabin rear via Velcro, and the support bows are hinged, so that to remove it into "convertible mode" you just in-Velro it, and fold it back like an accordion. It's unclear to be at this moment if te intention is to leave the canvas top on it when folded back, or you remove it and just fold back the support bows.

When it is folded back, it will look like this:

Based on how thing that boot it, I think the top itself is intended to just be removed and stored elsewhere.

I unfortunately did not get the boot or the bikini top. No big deal, I have a bikini and don't really need the boot, but it would have been cool to have it all together..

I've included thumbnails of all the pics I have to date.

 

[RatLabGuy]

One of the things that is unique about this top is that it uses the factory rear glass instead of a typical rollup vinyl window. I remember back in the old days this was all the rage, b/c people were concerned about security, and that most of the cheap vinyl ones would get all hazy from being rolled up al the time.

I unfortunately busted out my rear glass many years ago, maybe 2011?, backing into a tree while it was topless. It dented in the tailgate and left a bazillion little pieces in there, so for about a year every time I folded the tailgate down a few more chunks fell out. I didn't really care b/c it was a beater racer and was always topless anyway.
So, I had to replace the window just to get this thing to fit. I consider his somewhat ironic b/c what I really want is a Toy Top, which comes w/ a rollup plastic rear. But I have to go through the motions now to do this thing.
No real pics or story, but I picked up a replacement glass from another user here back in... Thanksgiving? Had to remove the lifter mechanism, to bang out the sheet metal, and fit in the new glass. Getting the mechanism out is not trivial. Getting the new one in is an even bigger biatch. One headache I had was that he track at the base of the new window, which seems to epoxied onto it, is rusted pretty bad. I had to clean, file and grind it away so that the rollers from the lifter would slide in it. And add a sh*it ton of lube.

Once I got it all back together, I THEN remembered... the f*cking lifter wiring didn't work. I used to be (only) able to move it up and down using the key switch in the door - the switch at the cabin console never worked. Never cared, since I was always at the back when raising it anyway. But now it doesn't work at all.
I figured it may, or not have been related to the whole backing-into-a-tree incident... it's been so long I have no idea.
Anyway, I tried everything... I know about the "special bolt" in the driver's quarter panel that pushes in the switch, that was all good. Spent a crapload of time digging through the wiring diagrams - it's really quite complicated, everything is routed through the PCM in the driver's side back seat fender. Never could figure out the source of the problem. I suspect the key switch was flaky, kept getting intermittent readings on continuity checks.

So, finally I just say, F-it all, and just ran a new 12 ga hot wire from a secondary fuse panel I'd installed, all the way to the back tailgate. Wired that direct to a 30a-rated momentary toggle switch, and put that in the door, ran that right to the motor. Basically just made my own new simple circuit.

Because the inside of the tailgate doesn't have much clearance for the glass (mental note, for next time I back into a tree), i had to mount it on the plastic trim. Which isnt so bad, but i had wanted to hide it up ugmder the name panel beside the license plate.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Back to the "top"...

Here is all I have to work with, for parts:

Just a bow that attaches to the cabin, and the support frame bows. I do not have the channels that go on the bedsides, nor any of the attaching hardware to connect the bow set to the channels.

You can see that the bows are all connected so they fold together. Also, there are two straps that set a maximum throw of the bows as they unfold. The straps extend to the front, and connect to the bow on the cabin via snaps, so that it sets the correct location of the bows (see future pics). Pretty slick design.

Here is a shot of the front bow attached to the cabin:

Now, the biggest problem is that I have no way to attach the bows to a channel or anything on the bedsides.
Here is what the tips of the bows look like:

Luckily.... we now live in the future, and I can easily just make something!
Spent about 15 mins making something in CAD

Then 3d printed it in ABS. Next iteration will probably be PC-ABS, didn't feel like wasting material to swap out what wasi n there now.

And in < 3 hours, had this in hand:

Dang Stratisys always uses a REDICULOUS amount of support material...

 

[RatLabGuy]

Punched out the support material (too impatient to wait for the solvent bath). With those in hand, I can now at least set up the bows.
The biggest problem is, I don't know the front-back mounting location of the hinges. I also don't know exactly what their height shoould be, but I figure if I get it close, I can fine tune that by adding spacers, then just print a part the right height.
But figuring out the mounting point isn't trivial. Spent a whole lot of time zoomed in on the pics, and took an estimate to get started.
First, just for trial setup, I screwed a strip of wood to the bedrail, and took a stab at the mounting location.

Had my teenage helper hold it in place, and put in a temp screw just to keep it from sliding

At that point, we could slip the top on, and get a gander at how close it was:

We could then tell how, by sliding the mounting hinge back and forth, it affects the rake of the support bows, and where the back one ends up.
What make it a little easier is this - the rear of the fabric has a fold with snaps on the underside, which mate with corresponding snaps on the rear support bow:

What this means is that basically sets the rear connecting point of the top and the bow frame, effectively fixing everything into place. All I have to do now is to figure out the appropriate mount for the hinges to make the rake proper so that it mates to the rear window.

Now, what is a great design feature... but REALLY unfortunate, is that if you look at this pic, there is supposed to be a downward support bar, that connects to the back end of the bedrail:

I don't have that bar . If I did, then it would lock the entire frame into a fixed position, making finding the rail swivel position easy. It clearly also serves to provide a nice tight pulling-down effect for the top. Ugh. I have some ideas on how to make one.

 

[RatLabGuy]

So here is where I hit a snag, and am looking for ideas from you brainiacs.

When we put he top on, I tried my best to center is, but it seems it is too short, going up and over from one side to the other. E.g. if it is centered on the truck, it come up about 3/4"-1" high compared to the bedsides. Likewise if I line it up with the bedsides and the plastic trim on the dor (so that it matches the pics from other truck) then it comes up about 1.5-1.75" short on the other side.
Sample pic:

Any ideas? The trim mounting channel over the cab is pressed down as far as it can go. No way I'd get another 3/4" out of it.

I know it's not uncommon for fabric to shrink or draw up, but this is canvas - isn't it supposed to not do that? It appears in very good shape, no signs of weathering. Mathematically that would be about 1.5% shrinkage, which seems excessive...? But I'm no fabrics expert.
As I understand it, it was in a garage attic for the last 10+ years.
Unfortunately I don't have a good way to know if it is shrunk in the other direction, which one would expect from normal shrinkage, due to the missing hardware problem and not knowing exactly where it should end.

 

[2mnyYotas]

I scored a great deal on an old soft top for my 4Runner.
It apparently is a "SunTop", made by a small operation that closed up a long time ago (like early 2000s).

I know it's a long shot, but does anybody here happen to own one? Or, know where I might find several pics of the mounting system?

What I have is only the fabric and hoops, and am missing the L-channels that run along the bedsides that is snaps to, as well as the brackets that the hoops mount to. Some pics I found googling around suggests there also should be something that goes on the corners on either side of the tailgate. I'm sure I can fabricate what is needed, but I don't know exactly what is missing or where it goes.

Unfortunately info on these is scant, with lots of old PBB, 4x4wire and ORC threads talking about them with dead picture links (which I'm sure would show what I need).

All that aside, its a super cool top, as it seems to be able to easily detach from the cab (via Velcro) and fold back like a convertible, but uses the factory glass for the rear instead of a roll-up window.

Looks like this installed:
View attachment 271142

I have a complete top if you still need pics or help.

 

[RatLabGuy]

I have a complete top if you still need pics or help.

That would be useful for sure.
This has kind of stalled, but i need to get it going again. Will pm you.

 

[Fabrik8]

I'm not sure if you've already figured this out, but all of the tubing hardware looks to be generic parts from bimini tops on boats.

Have some brackets:
Bimini Top Hardware, Boat Bimini Top Hardware & Accessories | Great Lakes Skipper


I would be legitimately shocked if those missing brackets (that you FDM printed) aren't a very standard width and height. The picture of the copper-colored 4Runner would seem to support that.

Those short rear struts should be super easy to replicate, if you can figure out the length (take carefully eye-to-eye measurements when you see that top that @2mnyYotas has).

 

[RatLabGuy]

I'm not sure if you've already figured this out, but all of the tubing hardware looks to be generic parts from bimini tops on boats.

Have some brackets:
Bimini Top Hardware, Boat Bimini Top Hardware & Accessories | Great Lakes Skipper


I would be legitimately shocked if those missing brackets (that you FDM printed) aren't a very standard width and height. The picture of the copper-colored 4Runner would seem to support that.

Those short rear struts should be super easy to replicate, if you can figure out the length (take carefully eye-to-eye measurements when you see that top that @2mnyYotas has).

Thanks. Yeah the fabbing should be easy. The lack of measurements is the problem.
Really, the problem area is the support in the back corner, where the top wraps around the back at the base of the window. If you look closely at where those shorter support down rods connect, it appears there is another adapter plate there. Not sure how to mimic that, but will probbaly just make my own.

Really, the biggest problem is how the canvas material has shrunk. Its clear that to ft properly with the rear window, everything needs to be expanded a small amount. I've read all kind of ways to heat canvas to get it to stretch, but being 20-something year old cotton it's likely to just shrink again.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Well I guess I shoud up date this thread.

but nothing at all has progressed. I gave up on teh rear window, which means this thing wasn't useful, and I bought a Killer Toy Top.
So if anybody wants to try and use this thing its up for sale for what I have in it.