Taco Tow Things and Toyota Tech Tribulations

Should Rear Disc brakes be standard now in 2023 for passenger/light duty vehicles?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Darkbloodmon

Active Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Location
Concord, NC
Got a call for a 2022 Tacoma, its a RAP call from a dealership road side service program. They use AAA as a contracted service provider since they don't have their own roadside assistance program.

Most of these calls end up being jump starts, batteries are more often than not older than the newer vehicle they came in; and or the vehicle has been sitting on lot for a period of time draining the bat. Which is what I was thinking before I called the guy to find out the details and give my eta.

Get on the phone with the guy and ask him to describe the problem since those details never make it into the call notes for drivers given the telephone/technology game it is from call center, to dispatch, to driver. He's telling me the "vehicle locked up on him" first happened pulling into a parking lot, he turned it off then went into reverse to and it was driving fine as he pulled into a restaurant to get lunch. Gets out the restaurant and it does the same thing as he's pulling out of the parking lot onto the street at aprox. 15mph. Don't know why he thought it'd go away after time but I digress and keep my thoughts to myself.

I get on location which is the side of a road blocking one lane of a two lane street parallel to a shopping center; its Friday afternoon; there's plenty of traffic and people rushing to get home like they got a text saying "my parents are gone". After assuring the guy that I will take care of his most likely second most valuable and fastest depreciating asset that payments are still being made on. He grabs his personal items and hitches a ride home with the wife leaving me to work in peace.

We got ourselves a TRD SPORT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Maximum Pinky Extension), initial thoughts about the issue being he fat fingered a button for a 4x4 mode in the parking lot, diff lock, crawl mode etc. and the vehicle locked the wheels as a safety feature sensing it was on hard pavement and not a loose surface. I get hooked up aim the wheels jab it in neutral and get to winching only to discover that three of the four wheels are moving, the rear left not wanting to be a team player. So I hop inside said Taco and begin looking for the 4x4 controls for about 5 mins before realizing this 35K MSRP Cravings box is 4x2 after looking at the undercarriage, In addition to being 4x2 its got rear drum brakes......

I start talking to myself out loud about what a "GEM" this Meal Deal Taco is compared to my 91' Accord SE that has rear disc brakes, My 03' Dodge 2500 that has rear disc brakes, The F650 I drive that has rear disc brakes, just about if not all of our roll backs/wreckers including our largest Hino's have rear disc brakes. Then I start imagining the conversation that transpired between him and his wife prior to purchasing this vehicle.

Wife: "It doesn't need to be 4x4, you don't do anything on the weekends needing it and your not about to start with a 35K truck"

Husband: "If it can't be 4x4 then can we get x, y, z package?"

Wife : "Sure if we can get a discount on insurance from it"

End of Conversation.

The Taco had some tech package on it, it had adaptive lane control/assist/blind spot warning. I looked up the options for that model year as im writing this. But you know what I don't see as an option for the TRD SPORT? Rear disc brakes. Apparently that's a premium trim to upgrade from such outdated technology. So my thought about the issue moves to a pin or pivot point broke on the rear left drum and now the shoe is contacting the housing and wedging itself against the friction material. Executive decision being more winch, in Neutral, and leave it near the edge of the bed to make removal "Easier".

I pack up this Cravings Box for take out and I'm heading down to Toyota of Rock hill one of my least favorite dealerships by parking lot/ service area drop off design; One ways and narrow isles made for wreckers not roll backs. On the way down to Rock town I'm thinking about how I'm going to drop this Taco "gently" I know I can get it off, but the dealership is still open, and I don't like to be watched while I get intimate with paved surfaces and 10+ ton roll back unloading.

I arrive. Tech parking a car walks over to me as I pull up and asks if it starts, I say "oh yea, but the rear left drum is locked, only three wheels move in N" He then instructs me to drop it right across from the garage entrance so they can drag or push it in. Ok OJ, works for me. I do my thing and back it up with surgical precision and begin the deed....

I get the rear axle off the bed just as gravity unfriends me and friction darts in front of me like a "Nissan Altima driver" taking the last milliseconds of a yellow light leaving me in red. Taco is no longer moving. As a professional problem solver I get to thinking about my options given the circumstance. My plan is to go propose two unattractive options to the service advisors behind the pretty glass so that they provide me with a better one. Ugly option one: "Can I borrow a Tundra to snatch block and drag this taco off the edge of my bed into this spot" , Ugly option two: " I can get it off but im most likely going to damage or scrape up your concrete lot. I can back it farther into the spot get the rear axle off and walk my bed and truck out from underneath the taco after locking the E-Brake" (walking the bed involves using the edge of the bed as a foot peg, I angle the bed sharply towards the ground and lift the bed until my rear axle gets off the ground and walk the truck in or out with the hydraulic cylinders, out in this case and repeat this process as the front wheels roll off) I do this on the daily as the circumstance requires, and without damaging lots but my point is to get to option 3.

Everyone gets bug eyes at option 1 and option 2, until someone speaks up asking if I have skids......, to which I respond with a BS answer " yes but they're going to be too difficult to use in this situation given the vehicle is on an uneven surface" all the while thinking to myself : Why are you asking me to use skids, you aren't going to skid it in your garage, you're sure as hell not going to drag; I'm not about to lift an 60lb jack onto an angled surface to jack up a wheel and slide a skid underneath and do it again to get the skid back once it on the ground. Someone else speaks up "Can you use one of our dollies", Oh yeah option 3, "I sure can". I get the dolly and get the Taco into its space. Initially I leave the dolly on thinking they'll need it to move it inside the shop. So I grab the keys, lock up the Taco and get my bed tucked back in, walk over to the pretty glass windows with desks to hand over the keys and provide the contact info for the customer and the SA says to remove the dolly incase someone steals it overnight. I don't contest, I'm just happy to have it off. I walk back out to retrieve the dolly as a tech is walking out to put a tag in the window for it, he asks for the keys, I tell him the bearded man has them, he notices I'm removing the dolly and asks me to leave it on, I then explain that the SA wanted it back. I can't stand dropping off at dealerships that are still open because multiple people always want to but in and give me directions that conflict with what the last person said. The best dealerships are the ones I don't have to talk to anybody like Hendrick Lexus off of Independence Blvd.

Taco dropped, tools cleaned up, I get my insurance pictures so AAA can't get boned and redirect it to my grunt worker ant self, text the customer with a pic of his car "Delivered, No issues, Have a nice evening" and I'm on to my next call still ahead of time.

For all the "Why didn't yous" , "You should'ves", "Why don't you haves" "This is the right way" etc. You can come test your hypothesis after submitting a job application for AAA and make it happen with the bare minimum, barely equipped, and barely running trucks we have in our fleet of more than 70 vehicles serviced by only two in house techs. Shoulder sniffing and miscommunicated management/ dispatch is a bonus feature for your streamlined working shift pleasure.

Rear drum brakes are outdated and cheap, and anything saying TRD.... x, y, z.... that's not a car or CSUV should have 4x4 standard... Toyota's are still a good buy, but I'm disappointed in them pulling a GM move like this.
 
Got a call for a 2022 Tacoma, its a RAP call from a dealership road side service program. They use AAA as a contracted service provider since they don't have their own roadside assistance program.

Most of these calls end up being jump starts, batteries are more often than not older than the newer vehicle they came in; and or the vehicle has been sitting on lot for a period of time draining the bat. Which is what I was thinking before I called the guy to find out the details and give my eta.

Get on the phone with the guy and ask him to describe the problem since those details never make it into the call notes for drivers given the telephone/technology game it is from call center, to dispatch, to driver. He's telling me the "vehicle locked up on him" first happened pulling into a parking lot, he turned it off then went into reverse to and it was driving fine as he pulled into a restaurant to get lunch. Gets out the restaurant and it does the same thing as he's pulling out of the parking lot onto the street at aprox. 15mph. Don't know why he thought it'd go away after time but I digress and keep my thoughts to myself.

I get on location which is the side of a road blocking one lane of a two lane street parallel to a shopping center; its Friday afternoon; there's plenty of traffic and people rushing to get home like they got a text saying "my parents are gone". After assuring the guy that I will take care of his most likely second most valuable and fastest depreciating asset that payments are still being made on. He grabs his personal items and hitches a ride home with the wife leaving me to work in peace.

We got ourselves a TRD SPORT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (Maximum Pinky Extension), initial thoughts about the issue being he fat fingered a button for a 4x4 mode in the parking lot, diff lock, crawl mode etc. and the vehicle locked the wheels as a safety feature sensing it was on hard pavement and not a loose surface. I get hooked up aim the wheels jab it in neutral and get to winching only to discover that three of the four wheels are moving, the rear left not wanting to be a team player. So I hop inside said Taco and begin looking for the 4x4 controls for about 5 mins before realizing this 35K MSRP Cravings box is 4x2 after looking at the undercarriage, In addition to being 4x2 its got rear drum brakes......

I start talking to myself out loud about what a "GEM" this Meal Deal Taco is compared to my 91' Accord SE that has rear disc brakes, My 03' Dodge 2500 that has rear disc brakes, The F650 I drive that has rear disc brakes, just about if not all of our roll backs/wreckers including our largest Hino's have rear disc brakes. Then I start imagining the conversation that transpired between him and his wife prior to purchasing this vehicle.

Wife: "It doesn't need to be 4x4, you don't do anything on the weekends needing it and your not about to start with a 35K truck"

Husband: "If it can't be 4x4 then can we get x, y, z package?"

Wife : "Sure if we can get a discount on insurance from it"

End of Conversation.

The Taco had some tech package on it, it had adaptive lane control/assist/blind spot warning. I looked up the options for that model year as im writing this. But you know what I don't see as an option for the TRD SPORT? Rear disc brakes. Apparently that's a premium trim to upgrade from such outdated technology. So my thought about the issue moves to a pin or pivot point broke on the rear left drum and now the shoe is contacting the housing and wedging itself against the friction material. Executive decision being more winch, in Neutral, and leave it near the edge of the bed to make removal "Easier".

I pack up this Cravings Box for take out and I'm heading down to Toyota of Rock hill one of my least favorite dealerships by parking lot/ service area drop off design; One ways and narrow isles made for wreckers not roll backs. On the way down to Rock town I'm thinking about how I'm going to drop this Taco "gently" I know I can get it off, but the dealership is still open, and I don't like to be watched while I get intimate with paved surfaces and 10+ ton roll back unloading.

I arrive. Tech parking a car walks over to me as I pull up and asks if it starts, I say "oh yea, but the rear left drum is locked, only three wheels move in N" He then instructs me to drop it right across from the garage entrance so they can drag or push it in. Ok OJ, works for me. I do my thing and back it up with surgical precision and begin the deed....

I get the rear axle off the bed just as gravity unfriends me and friction darts in front of me like a "Nissan Altima driver" taking the last milliseconds of a yellow light leaving me in red. Taco is no longer moving. As a professional problem solver I get to thinking about my options given the circumstance. My plan is to go propose two unattractive options to the service advisors behind the pretty glass so that they provide me with a better one. Ugly option one: "Can I borrow a Tundra to snatch block and drag this taco off the edge of my bed into this spot" , Ugly option two: " I can get it off but im most likely going to damage or scrape up your concrete lot. I can back it farther into the spot get the rear axle off and walk my bed and truck out from underneath the taco after locking the E-Brake" (walking the bed involves using the edge of the bed as a foot peg, I angle the bed sharply towards the ground and lift the bed until my rear axle gets off the ground and walk the truck in or out with the hydraulic cylinders, out in this case and repeat this process as the front wheels roll off) I do this on the daily as the circumstance requires, and without damaging lots but my point is to get to option 3.

Everyone gets bug eyes at option 1 and option 2, until someone speaks up asking if I have skids......, to which I respond with a BS answer " yes but they're going to be too difficult to use in this situation given the vehicle is on an uneven surface" all the while thinking to myself : Why are you asking me to use skids, you aren't going to skid it in your garage, you're sure as hell not going to drag; I'm not about to lift an 60lb jack onto an angled surface to jack up a wheel and slide a skid underneath and do it again to get the skid back once it on the ground. Someone else speaks up "Can you use one of our dollies", Oh yeah option 3, "I sure can". I get the dolly and get the Taco into its space. Initially I leave the dolly on thinking they'll need it to move it inside the shop. So I grab the keys, lock up the Taco and get my bed tucked back in, walk over to the pretty glass windows with desks to hand over the keys and provide the contact info for the customer and the SA says to remove the dolly incase someone steals it overnight. I don't contest, I'm just happy to have it off. I walk back out to retrieve the dolly as a tech is walking out to put a tag in the window for it, he asks for the keys, I tell him the bearded man has them, he notices I'm removing the dolly and asks me to leave it on, I then explain that the SA wanted it back. I can't stand dropping off at dealerships that are still open because multiple people always want to but in and give me directions that conflict with what the last person said. The best dealerships are the ones I don't have to talk to anybody like Hendrick Lexus off of Independence Blvd.

Taco dropped, tools cleaned up, I get my insurance pictures so AAA can't get boned and redirect it to my grunt worker ant self, text the customer with a pic of his car "Delivered, No issues, Have a nice evening" and I'm on to my next call still ahead of time.

For all the "Why didn't yous" , "You should'ves", "Why don't you haves" "This is the right way" etc. You can come test your hypothesis after submitting a job application for AAA and make it happen with the bare minimum, barely equipped, and barely running trucks we have in our fleet of more than 70 vehicles serviced by only two in house techs. Shoulder sniffing and miscommunicated management/ dispatch is a bonus feature for your streamlined working shift pleasure.

Rear drum brakes are outdated and cheap, and anything saying TRD.... x, y, z.... that's not a car or CSUV should have 4x4 standard... Toyota's are still a good buy, but I'm disappointed in them pulling a GM move like this.
Maybe you should get an understanding of brakes… drums are sufficient. I’m sure the car manufacturers are just using them to save absolutely no money…..
 
That was the longest rant about nothing. I shall now latch onto this and make dumb ass comments about drum brakes in every thread on this website whether the thread calls for it or not.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Duane
 
I’ll make sure and talk to my boss Monday morning about this and getting my truck swapped over to disc brakes! I now understand that stopping my 80k truck has, to this point, been based solely on a miracles considering it has drums all around including the wagon. Phew! Glad I’m in the know now!!!
 
Maybe you should get an understanding of brakes… drums are sufficient. I’m sure the car manufacturers are just using them to save absolutely no money…..
I've been wondering about this for years now. Discs have fewer parts and less material. And you get to sell parts that are compatible across more vehicles. What financial advantage could there possibly be to making drum brakes on a vehicle that also has discs?

Or is it maybe just that a base model 4x2 is a different axle housing that has never been updated?
 
I've been wondering about this for years now. Discs have fewer parts and less material. And you get to sell parts that are compatible across more vehicles. What financial advantage could there possibly be to making drum brakes on a vehicle that also has discs?

Or is it maybe just that a base model 4x2 is a different axle housing that has never been updated?
Serviceable parts are typically just shoes and drums… similar to pads and rotors. Typically provide a lot more surface contact when applying and when correct stay adjusted and ready to go.
 
Serviceable parts are typically just shoes and drums… similar to pads and rotors. Typically provide a lot more surface contact when applying and when correct stay adjusted and ready to go.
Oh I'm not arguing that drums are inherrently worse or we shouldn't be using them. Drums definitely have their place.
It just seems strange from a production cost standpoint that today Toyota would have them on this specific model vehicle.
 
They both have their place. Discs are superior for passenger vehicles. I would be annoyed if I bought a new vehicle and it had rear drums. But honestly it doesn't really matter unless you're doing a lot of mudding or regularly taking them apart.
 
Maybe you should get an understanding of brakes…
What's to understand? It all comes down to how you STOP. Disc brakes do it better.
 
Typically provide a lot more surface contact when applying and when correct stay adjusted and ready to go.
Yes they have more surface contact, but they don't have as much clamping force, nor do they have as good heat dissipation as a vented or solid rotor, heat being the main factor to over come in the braking system as kinetic energy is turned into heat. The systems are more complex in design with overall less performance than disc brakes.
 
That was the longest rant about nothing. I shall now latch onto this and make dumb ass comments about drum brakes in every thread on this website whether the thread calls for it or not.

Want to get sponsored by Akebono?
 
It just seems strange from a production cost standpoint that today Toyota would have them on this specific model vehicle.
You bet its strange, can you name a base model year 2022 Lexus with drum brakes?
 
My brother in Christ, do you understand how little the rear brakes on your vehicle actually do?
Mein Fruende, its a 60% 40% relationship like ours is fixing to be. But that 40% still matters even if its not as valued compared to the higher contributor. They're trying here.

By that frame of thought why don't we just get rid of rear brakes all together?! More weight savings and in turn better fuel economy numbers. Scratch them off the list like a full size spare tire or donut.
 
My brother in Christ, do you understand how little the rear brakes on your vehicle actually do?
Exactly, my POS ‘08 Tacoma Double cab has 310k miles and the ORIGINAL rear drum brake shoes, I have replacements, but they haven’t been needed, yes the brakes work, yes the parking brake works. They just really don’t contribute a lot unless the truck has weight in it. Rear disc would have rusted or been otherwise destroyed by the elements by lack of use
 

ADVANTAGES OF DRUMS:​

  • Efficiency: Greater torque production at a given line pressure for same diameter drum vs. disc. This is why the disc is almost always larger diameter than the drum it replaces on cars that could have either brake system. The larger disc diameter is needed for adequate torque production.
  • Weight: Drum systems weigh less than comparable disc systems.
  • Parking Brake: Drum brakes make a superior park brake due to the wedging action of the shoe against the drum. Once the park brake is set, any attempt to rotate the wheel causes the drum brake to grip harder (like a wedge type door stop).
  • Drag: Much time is spent designing systems that will pull the pads away from the disc to minimize energy loss due to pad drag on the rotor. In a drum brake system, springs pull the shoes away from the drum so that, at normal operating temperatures, there is little or no brake drag. I think I would argue that drums have a higher loss than disc due to how they’re typically adjusted. But if adjusted correctly, there should be slight drag when cold, but as the drum heats and expands, drag is reduced, or is it negligible?
 
I think its hilarious how much shit yall are giving him when most of yall have probably paid good money at some point to convert some axle you were swapping to discs because you thought drums sucked so much. I've done it twice, and been very happy with the results both times.
 
Exactly, my POS ‘08 Tacoma Double cab has 310k miles and the ORIGINAL rear drum brake shoes, I have replacements, but they haven’t been needed, yes the brakes work, yes the parking brake works. They just really don’t contribute a lot unless the truck has weight in it. Rear disc would have rusted or been otherwise destroyed by the elements by lack of use
My 03 2500 has its original rotors at 250K its been using semi metallic pads prior to the Akebono Ceramics I installed. Vehicle towed heavy and hard with its previous 4 owners. My truck was last registered in Alaska before I bought it.
 
You bet its strange, can you name a base model year 2022 Lexus with drum brakes?
Apples and oranges, Lexus doesn't make trucks. There isn't a comparable axle.
 
Apples and oranges, Lexus doesn't make trucks. There isn't a comparable axle.

Wrong, Lexus makes plenty of body on frame 4x4 SUVs using a Toyota 8" or similar sized axle configuration. Bet you they all have disc brakes.
 
Back
Top