Talk to me about P pump Cummins Dodges

ponykilr

ponykilr

Old Crow
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Location
Lowgap
I know of the “killer dowel pin” and the auto trans being sort of weak.

Any other potential gotchas on a RC 2500 SRW?
 
ponykilr said:
I know of the “killer dowel pin” and the auto trans being sort of weak.

Any other potential gotchas on a RC 2500 SRW?
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The autos are fairly simple to work on if your the type to do it yourself. The dashes fall out of them, have cold a/c if it's right. I DD a 94 with 525k now. I am the second owner. I have 3 12v/p7100 trucks. The engines are the best part.. The regular cab trucks have decent room for what they are.
And if it's been messed with much or around salt , grounds and such can cause a headache or two.
 
Junkyard Dog said:
The engines are the best part
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The engine is the only part, everything else is scrap.

Finding a clean P71 12v of any configuration much less a manual in the south east for a decent price is like looking for the Lost City of Gold in Detroit.

Don't waste your time huffing the hot breaths and foaming mouths screaming "reliability". The better 12v is an 03 04 HO 6MT Common rail; the last pre-emissions Cummins in the Dodge truck line. All the benefits of common rail injection on a more modern truck. i.e., Hydro boost power steering, 4 wheel disc brakes w/abs, better fuel economy, more power, better parts availability and electronics amongst other things.

Sure im bias owning one but I started my diesel truck search for a Manual 12v, then a 12v before wising up to a stick 03 before others caught on in Diesel fever. Anyone with their ear too the ground in the automotive community knows what a 12v is, its the diesel equivalent of a MK4 Supra. Its been thrashed and passed around like a blow up doll after an ugly divorce that the dog can't even weep for you for, since it got "got" to. IF there is a clean 12v you're looking to pay a stupid price for something with waning support in the after market as far as keeping the truck running as a whole.

Ask yourself realistically what you want to do with a truck that old and weather or not you want it long term. If you want a toy, you're gonna pay toy prices. If you want to talk common rails DM me or go wander around the TDR forum archives.

On a side note: The 12v Cummins is not a multi fuel engine, nor is the P7100 a multi fuel injection pump. If you want to try to avoid rising fuel prices by using the few drops of oil from the pan of a piss beaten oil chugging space heater, get a horse instead and put a Cummins sticker on its ass. Buying a 12v from someone whos been running sin knows what through it besides diesel is gonna leave you feeling like Power Stroke owner when you look at P7100 pump prices and reman work.
 
What condition is the truck in? Being a stock auto i doubt the previous owner turned it up much. Expect it to have usual dodge issues from the era.

Price would be the driving factor.
 
@Darkbloodmon , I also have a 05 CR nv5600 truck. It would be hard for me to argue that it is really that much better than a 12v. The injectors cost 5-6 times as much to replace, inj pumps dont last as long, just about everyone you see has been tuned before but "never" turned up, dashes fall out of them too. Transmissions give about as much trouble, they are a little tougher, my dads 07 has 410k on the stock 48re now. It's tired, though. 07 was the last year pre emissions unless you count a CAT. But I think about everyone can agree older dodges are driven for engine reliability and simplicity.
 
Darkbloodmon said:
The engine is the only part, everything else is scrap.
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Nothing really to add other than about once a week I see a post in the 73-79 ford truck groups saying ‘I’m going Fummins’…usually going scrap rate is asked about in the post, No one ever asks for spare parts and I never see ‘ohhh I’ve been looking for X/I woulda given you Y’ whiners after the scrappening goes down. That reach is about a half million people, you’d think someone would want something.
 
Junkyard Dog said:
@Darkbloodmon , I also have a 05 CR nv5600 truck. It would be hard for me to argue that it is really that much better than a 12v. The injectors cost 5-6 times as much to replace, inj pumps dont last as long, just about everyone you see has been tuned before but "never" turned up, dashes fall out of them too. Transmissions give about as much trouble, they are a little tougher, my dads 07 has 410k on the stock 48re now. It's tired, though. 07 was the last year pre emissions unless you count a CAT. But I think about everyone can agree older dodges are driven for engine reliability and simplicity.
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I disagree. I am exclusively talking about 03 and 04 HO 6MT trucks. 04.5+ trucks are not the same, i.e. There are early 03 04 injectors and then 04.5+ injectors for a reason. I've stated this before in another thread but to keep it short. 04.5+ trucks have a different piston bowl design and injector tip as well as additional pilot injection programing. This is an emissions transition change prior to DPF and EGR systems. 04.5+ melt cylinders and break rings at much higher rates with normal and tuned operation than early 03 04 trucks by physical design. Emissions components don't just mean exhaust system filtration; pistons and injector tips are hard parts that can not be changed out easily. 03 04 piston bowls don't work on 04.5+ injectors.

The injectors are expensive, its price of power and efficiency. Common rail injection and timing is precise, a 12v is sloppy. If you buy from a reputable mfg. Big Bang Injection (Austria based) they'll last for years with proper filtration. The injection pumps aren't a common failure point CP3s have been robust in design on the 5.9 platform, I hate using personal on off examples because not every truck is the same or maintained the same but I have a 230K mi original CP3 that was still working when I replaced it with a S&S Super Sport 6.7 CP3 in prep for tuning.

The dashes are a feature at this point, just like the interiors, front ends, and high mileage electrical issues/battery fires. You know what your signing up for with a Chrysler product.

Chrysler Transmissions are shit historically speaking, I'm only driving my truck because it has a Cummins and Dodge didn't go it alone with the transmission and developed the NV5600 in partnership with GM through their now dissolved New Venture Gear company. If you think you're going to "Dodge" (haaaa) electrical issues on a high mileage auto 12v you're sadly mistaken.

Lets talk straight. How much more parts support will 12v engines get going forward? Not even including the crumbling Chrysler crack wagon the engine is sitting in. There are no new injection pumps, they're all reman and in limited supply, even more so are the shops "claiming" to do quality work. That part when you need it will be even more expensive as time goes on. If you've not installed a P7100 it'll get old fast with the number of junkyard cores you'll be trying to save on. You can get injectors cheaply now easily, but again quality control for a more than two decade old truck in dwindling numbers, price is going to go up as the rust creeps on. For example I bought a 4" turbo back exhaust from AFE last year for my 03. That same exhaust system is now discontinued. No longer supported, No parts, No warranty. AFE has only cat backs now, if it wasn't a California truck it doesn't have a factory cat for 03 04. This a reaction to recent EPA policies and laws now being enforced; because ol'boys put diesel trucks down range trying to bring coal jobs back with the end of their exhaust tips.

I'm not your wife, but ask yourself honestly what you want to do with the truck long term. There isn't any value in selling it out side of the diesel community, and eventually the prices for them will fall when it becomes unrealistic to maintain one. There's no 12v that's not been touched, and because of its inflated reputation no one is going to give a damn about anything else but squeezing the "experience" out of it as its passed around like the only Gatorade on the football field during summer training.

I wish I could show you pictures of the RCLB NV56 12v I looked at up in Hickory years ago, it had plastic bottle zip tied to the oil fil because there wasn't a cap, it'd been painted several times, dripping sin, 4x4 worked by touching wires together, cab was melted in one corner and deformed from the exhaust stack in the bed, and the owner was genuinely afraid to drive it down the mountain from Hickory not knowing if the brakes would hold. He'd done nothing to it and was trying to get out of it for the low price of 6Gs or trades.

The older 12v dodges are overrated oil stained wet dreams. You got people putting 5 grand wheels in front of drum brakes...... wake up.
 
My first Dodge is an 85'. Still have it, dash is perfect and it's sat outside most of its life. Hardly ever use it but everything electrical still works (unless I intentionally removed it) other than some bulbs burn out and the stock radio finally quit a couple years ago. Obviously not a 12v, but the dodge part is still holding up fine. (Admittedly this was my first truck as a kid and it's had some serious youthful offroading for years, it's suspension has been modified and so on, but the overall dodge package is impressively in good condition) Then I bought a 97 1/2 ton, ran it for years - the dash cracked to pieces. Towed more weight than I should have with it, but it never let me down. Did have to rebuild the trans well past the 100k mile point, but not really unusual for any brand of vehicle of that era especially considering the duty cycle I put it through. Sold it to a young marine who still has it, he put a new dash in it but otherwise loves it and claims it's the most reliable vehicle between him and all his buddies. Bought an 05 Cummins for my first diesel. Great truck, incredible power, never tuned it, bought a 10 ton gooseneck, and worked that truck hard hauling equipment weekly. Second gear worked pretty hard with my situation and the lining wore thin at around 100k, but the trans design doesn't allow for any metal to metal contact so I just replaced the second gear band and kept going for another 50k miles of hard use. No electrical problems, no cracked dash, no engine problems, I did put new hubs on it around 115k miles and tie rods, but again I don't think this is unusual for any truck that sees 35% of it's life on dirt roads with all stock parts running 35" tires. Trades that truck for my current 2018 Cummins. I'll hit 120k on it this morning going to work. I've also not experienced any of the fabled Dodge problems with this one, and the dash display tells me I'm getting 19mpg, currently it's all stock other than larger tires, planning to tune this one soon though.

So to the OP: I'd say I've been very impressed with the Dodge trucks I've owned, haven't been easy on any of them and have not experienced any unusual issues other than the dash cracked in my 97. If you buy any 20 year old truck you should expect some worn parts, I'm of the mindset that a 20 year old Cummins has probably been worked harder than most other trucks in its era and class and likely held up better than the rest too. If you find one thats seems to have been cared for and want one, you should buy it and expect to throw some parts at it along the way, same as if you bought a Chevy or Ford diesel of the same era. Good luck with your search and post pics when you find one
 
Darkbloodmon said:
This a reaction to recent EPA policies and laws now being enforced; because ol'boys put diesel trucks down range trying to bring coal jobs back with the end of their exhaust tips.
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:laughing: :clap:
 
Well I know of a reasonably good 4x4 RCLB, not rusty but delaminating paint, basic equipment with CTD and auto. It was 1 owner before my buddy bought it from an estate. 260k miles.

It runs perfectly, trans was just serviced and bands adjusted (as maintenance) and was all stock until a couple months ago. The pump was moved forward, star wheel adjusted and wastegate deleted… I believe I have that right. Supposed to be the defacto mods for these.

He is driving it to work daily and parked his Dmax LOL. He is planning to put the dowel fix kit in it and cover the seat. I have first dibs at a good price.
 
UTfball68 said:
Nothing really to add other than about once a week I see a post in the 73-79 ford truck groups saying ‘I’m going Fummins’…usually going scrap rate is asked about in the post, No one ever asks for spare parts and I never see ‘ohhh I’ve been looking for X/I woulda given you Y’ whiners after the scrappening goes down. That reach is about a half million people, you’d think someone would want something.
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I'd put my Dodge/Ram fanboyism up there with probably anyone else on this board, and even I admit the second gen trucks are just expensive shipping crates for a good engine.

Duane
 
untchabl said:
Strange, I bought an 04 HO that had #6 rod kicked out the side of the block hard enough to destroy the starter.
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Shoulda went with the SO instead of the HO. :p

I bought a ticking time bomb 2008 Ford 6.4 with 300k miles, put a tuner on it, drove the piss out of it till 350k miles, sold it to buddy for top dollhair, and he is still driving the piss out of it at 400k miles, so there's exceptions to every rule.
 
Junkyard Dog said:
So I've decided to sell my 4 cummins truck and start searching for a 03-04 ho if anyone knows where a nice one is. I figure if I sell my two compound turbo trucks and my two stockers I can afford a holy grail early CR truck.

Thanks
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Bingo at least you are getting ahead of the idiots looking for the 98 12v 5spd 4x4 ext cab with the rear door that opens.
 
Junkyard Dog said:
So I've decided to sell my 4 cummins truck and start searching for a 03-04 ho if anyone knows where a nice one is. I figure if I sell my two compound turbo trucks and my two stockers I can afford a holy grail early CR truck.

Thanks
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I'll give you a $5k a piece 👍
 
Glad yall got a kick out of that I might have a writing career yet, on a serious note parts availability and catch up work to keep a 12v running are going to be your biggest cons on something that was daily driven. I'd anticipate the EPA becoming a bigger issue going forward on the manufacturers of said parts and potentially regulations/inspection policies. I wouldn't put any chips on taking a 200Kmi plus 12v to a million or half with minor work here and there depending on how many hands have been on the title.

I forgot to mention there is a Cummins Hoarder duo of late second and early third gen trucks in NC, I've met said persons to buy parts from once and from my understanding talking to them; the reason you can't find many of these trucks in parts yards is because of their operations network in the greater south eastern portion of the states. They've got many....parts, they've got many .....trucks, but if they're not willing to sell, your SOL. I've seen social media posts of them moving trucks and parts in and out of Florida and potentially as far as New Jersey. They aren't the only ones with personal parts yards either.

Saw this in passing today and had to share it anticipating the replies in this thread. Wyoming's oxygen hits the brain different, Lovely little 401(k) starter with just a "touch" of under glow... all stock though.... 91' was a half year, the 91.5'+ had intercoolers
 
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