Tell me why I should not buy a Burn Table

brintrot

brintrot

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
Raleigh
I have talked to the nice folks at Burn Tables about a set-up for not only plasma but as a router table as well. Seems like a cost effective set-up but also seems like an "as seen on TV" commercial and then it doesn't work like it is supposed too. Any thoughts? Things to look for? Anyone have one within 2-3 hours of Raleigh? Before I plop down some money I want to make sure I have done some DD.
 
I mean, you realize how much the entire setup costs right? It's a pretty huge investment, what are you planning on doing with one? There are already 6+ guys in NC doing tabs and such with cnc tables.
 
I do realize that and believe it or not I am not really interested in doing stuff for wheeling but rather more artsy stuff and perhaps wood and metal combinations. Sign making also interests me.
 
Michael (tacoma747) on here has a burn table i believe.

As said its a big investment & hard industry to get into. Unless you have a connection with industrial/manufacturing it takes a while to make you're money back.
 
Don't take any advice from me on the Burntables, Burntables will just tell you it is all lies and slander o_O

That said, mine is sold (still in my posession for awhile) and I am getting a 4x8 Bulltear. I don't really NEED a 4x8, I just got the opportunity to sell the BT so I figured I would upgrade to a larger and more industrial (although still considered an 'entry level' system) table.

The Burntables works, but for anyone using it on a regular basis I would highly siggest a better quality table. I don't feel like I use mine alot, but when I cut I normally cut a full 4x4 sheet. Talk to any other vendor out there and they will put in their $0.02 about other vendors, but I have talked to more than one (since I started looking for a replacement) that all said to steer clear of the BT, as well as a couple other people that bought BT that were less than impressed.

If you plan to cut thin stuff, and only things 'here and there' and not use it for anything much (like a 15 minute cut job a day) then I might would go with a Viper plasma. Even the BT would function fine for jobs like that, but is alot more $$$ than a Viper.

When I cut stuff I normally am cutting for an 1hr+ at a time (much longer with my old plasma cutter as it was SLOW). On a pretty regular basis it loses track of where it thinks it is, so it screws up parts and wastes material. I can babysit it for 15-20 minutes but having to stand beside it for hours just so I can stop it when it screws up is a pain in the butt.
 
Good machinery sells itself. If they are spending a lot & it seems like a lot of advertising push, I'd steer clear. You could probably get something of equal quality for much less else where.
 
I ordered a table last week. Hopefully it'll be here in a week or so. I wen't back and forth between about 4 different brands for 6 months or more. Originally I was going to buy a Torchmate Growth series 4x4, then I decided to go with plasma cam, then I decided to go even cheaper and do a viper plasma and finally decided on building my own table. I've heard mostly great stuff from torchmate and plasma cam, but there were some major issues that caused me to steer away from them. 1. I wanted automatic torch height control. Torchmate offers it but it puts the price of the table substantially higher. Plasmacam comes with the software for it already installed but you have to pay a "fee" to activate it. 2. They both use their own driver software and motor drivers which means parts have to come from them and are pretty pricey. 3. from what I can tell, plasmacam's tech support is not always free.

These things steered me towards a cheaper simpler table made by Viper Plasma. They sell on their own site and through ebay. They sell a relatively turn key machine that has ATHC, a hypertherm max45, they use geko drivers and nema motors which are easy to source parts for and a few other features that I wanted for about 6,500 shipped to my shop. After some research I saw that I couldn't find any real world information on the web anywhere about them. They say they sell them a lot but nobody seem's to have any exerience with them. That scared me so I wen't looking at other options.

I found precision plasma and candcnc. Precision offers many different gantry and complete table options, candcnc sell the electronics to run the table using well known parts and software. Through these two companies I was able to get a complete table and all the electronics/software and licenses and a hypertherm pewermax65 for a great price.

Through all of my 6 months of research I never once found any very good information about burn tables. I'm not saying they aren't a good company I just wasn't able to find solid evidence that they were the one to buy.

I don't have my table yet but I do know that the plan for it is to make me money. I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't expect to at least break even. What I spend a month in brackets and tabs not to mention the labor time it takes to make my own stuff freehand with a plasma and grinder should more than pay for it pretty quick. I also have a few local places looking for someone to cut them bulk small stuff to have in stock for doing displays and that kind of thing. So at this point I really can't speak for what it is making me but soon I should have a pretty good idea. There are so many ways to make money with one I think you just have to think outside of 4wd work. A good thread for ideas is on pirate4x4 titled "what have you built with your torchmate" The one thing I notice in that thread is that probably 80 percent of the stuff isn't for an offroad vehicle.
 
I learned on a 4x4 plasma cam in high school. Actually figured out how to use it well before my instructor did. It was a very good machine, just has a learning curve, and I would recommend keeping the tracks clean and so on. I saw a few areas for improvement, but at some point in time, i would love to have one in my own shop.
 
I came looking for information on burn tables, and unfortunately what I found was the usual forum trash. Sad.

brintrot said:
also seems like an "as seen on TV" commercial
Click to expand...

You sound more worried about how the forum perceives you, than about what is right for you. Based on the responses, I'm guessing you read the negativity and are now looking for an "out" (a justification for buying a pricier model).

Tacoma747 said:
Don't take any advice from me on the Burntables, Burntables will just tell you it is all lies and slander o_O
Click to expand...

... or maybe you are just making yourself look like a victim; instead of being honest about your own failures of decision making? Yep, that's the one.

Tacoma747 said:
Talk to any other vendor out there and they will put in their $0.02 about other vendors, but I have talked to more than one (since I started looking for a replacement) that all said to steer clear of the BT, as well as a couple other people that bought BT that were less than impressed.
Click to expand...

First any "competitor" that is a LEGITIMATE company NEVER downs other companies. That is the sign of a huckster. Second you're "appeal to authority" is a sign that you are not telling the truth.

My guess is they explained that the table (you bought) is NOT industrial system; and for what you SAY you want to do, it's not the right machine. Again, you ducking your own responsibilities.

Tacoma747 said:
If you plan to cut thin stuff, and only things 'here and there' and not use it for anything much (like a 15 minute cut job a day) then I might would go with a Viper plasma. Even the BT would function fine for jobs like that, but is alot more $$$ than a Viper.
Click to expand...

So your expertise extends to recommending companies that, WHEN YOU POSTED THIS, were already BANKRUPT and going out of business. Oh yeah your opinion is one to be trusted.

Tacoma747 said:
When I cut stuff I normally am cutting for an 1hr+ at a time (much longer with my old plasma cutter as it was SLOW). On a pretty regular basis it loses track of where it thinks it is, so it screws up parts and wastes material. I can babysit it for 15-20 minutes but having to stand beside it for hours just so I can stop it when it screws up is a pain in the butt.
Click to expand...

See you apparently think you are a businessman. A businessman would NEVER buy the lowest price machine and expect to get the best machine.

Like I said you screwed up, and you are blaming the company that made the machine. Grow up.
 
Joe Smythe said:
I came looking for information on burn tables, and unfortunately what I found was the usual forum trash. Sad.



You sound more worried about how the forum perceives you, than about what is right for you. Based on the responses, I'm guessing you read the negativity and are now looking for an "out" (a justification for buying a pricier model).



... or maybe you are just making yourself look like a victim; instead of being honest about your own failures of decision making? Yep, that's the one.



First any "competitor" that is a LEGITIMATE company NEVER downs other companies. That is the sign of a huckster. Second you're "appeal to authority" is a sign that you are not telling the truth.

My guess is they explained that the table (you bought) is NOT industrial system; and for what you SAY you want to do, it's not the right machine. Again, you ducking your own responsibilities.



So your expertise extends to recommending companies that, WHEN YOU POSTED THIS, were already BANKRUPT and going out of business. Oh yeah your opinion is one to be trusted.



See you apparently think you are a businessman. A businessman would NEVER buy the lowest price machine and expect to get the best machine.

Like I said you screwed up, and you are blaming the company that made the machine. Grow up.
Click to expand...

Hrmmm...

I'm going to chime in here because I have a unique perspective.

I dont know Joe Smythe or who he is.
I do know Michael (Tacmoa747) and in fact I was partly responsible for him getting a Burn Tables. I also know Kyle Riggen and Matt Kool who, to my knowledge, were the co-owners of Burn Table.

Burn Table was a sponsor of ECORS when I owned it. And they definitely delivered every promise they made as a sponsor, though some deadlines were really tight. I also helped them out with a generator that the savings I got them reimbursed the entire sponsorship deal.

Michael used to race ECORS and was sponsored by BurnTables and I heard (2nd hand) that there was some unfulfilled commitments there. So I imagine it is fair to say that Michael was bitter. That not withstanding I know of 5 people personally who bought a BT off of my recommendation or the ECORS affiliation and every one of those were unhappy and 4 of the 5 have since purchased a competing product. I have never used a BT branded product and as such cant speak to the quality first hand.

I have no clue why you chose to dredge up a 2.5 year old thread to make your point, but seeing as how my name was destined to come into (given the previously defined relationship) it I am responding.

Hard to say Michael screwed up when he expressed EXACTLY what he planned to do with the table to Kyle and the sponsorship agreement was based off that understanding. Telling him to grow up attacks his character without knowing him, makes you look childish and calls the brand you represent into question in the eyes of many.
 
Joe Smythe said:
I came looking for information on burn tables, and unfortunately what I found was the usual forum trash. Sad.



You sound more worried about how the forum perceives you, than about what is right for you. Based on the responses, I'm guessing you read the negativity and are now looking for an "out" (a justification for buying a pricier model).



... or maybe you are just making yourself look like a victim; instead of being honest about your own failures of decision making? Yep, that's the one.



First any "competitor" that is a LEGITIMATE company NEVER downs other companies. That is the sign of a huckster. Second you're "appeal to authority" is a sign that you are not telling the truth.

My guess is they explained that the table (you bought) is NOT industrial system; and for what you SAY you want to do, it's not the right machine. Again, you ducking your own responsibilities.



So your expertise extends to recommending companies that, WHEN YOU POSTED THIS, were already BANKRUPT and going out of business. Oh yeah your opinion is one to be trusted.



See you apparently think you are a businessman. A businessman would NEVER buy the lowest price machine and expect to get the best machine.

Like I said you screwed up, and you are blaming the company that made the machine. Grow up.
Click to expand...

So Joe just to be clear - you joined this forum just to be an ass to people about a 2 year old thread, showing your own interpretations of their intentions and putting words in their mouths?
That's real manly. And highly professional. /sarcasm
I'm hoping you're not a rep of BT, b/c this reflects very poorly on them... and makes me want to be involved in their business even less.... although your tone and defensiveness certainly suggests otherwise.
 
Wow. I think I specifically said it might be an OK table for.someone that rarely uses it. Heck, it has never given one single problem to the guy I sold it to, BUT he has not used it a single time either. He got it because he could, and thought he might use it every now and then, just never has needed it yet.

I have not used my bulltear table in over a year, but it is 20x nicer than the burntables could ever dream of being, and the price was not that much more.

So, Joe (or is it Kyle?). Yes, I still think Burntables is still not a good investment even for a hobby user. I am sure many of the other brands are not much if any better than the burntables. From what I have seen, the quality of the bulltear is 2nd to none (but I have not seen ALL the tables out there either). I like the design of the bulltear better than plasmacam, or torch mate though.
 
What's sad, is someone who has to join a website under a false name. Joe Smythe really? No imagination, or just cant do any better? Guessing you have some stake in burn tables I'm pretty sure you just cut your own throat in any future sales. To much of a douche to come here and defend your company in a proper manner. I know what kind of table I "WONT" be buying for sure.

image.jpg
 
Judging by the length of the post and inexplicable amount of implied butthurt, I almost thought it was John Fuller, but the grammar and spelling were too good :confused:
 
And Joe (aka Kyle), it sounds like you don't need info. It sounds like you already own a table. I have about $10k in my Bulltear 4x8 (I built the frame and the pans), running CandCNC electronics, and a Hypertherm PM65. Price a 4x8 Burntables (I am sure Bulltear and Burntables have both gone up in price over the past few years). I'd put this Bulltear up against the Burntables any day of the week, in any category it is a far better machine.

1: It is square (best I remember my burntables was about 3/16-1/4" out of square)
2: It is built out of billet aluminum, not poorly cut CNC plasma steel bracketry that is then welded together.
3: The control system is a much more robust system
4: Bulltear comes standard with a MAGNETIC breakaway for the torch head, not a plastic one that must be replaced when your Burntables screws up and runs into something.

I will say, the burntables torch height control 'idea' was nice, and fairly simple. It took awhile to get it to function, but once it worked it worked OK.

Burntables says you need a ground rod to run their system, at one point I had driven 3 ground rods, and the control box was still screwing up and getting smoked. This was using a ESAB plasma cutter, which Burntables told me would work fine with their system. Turns out, it wouldn't. I had to buy a new plasma cutter because they didn't know what wouldn't work with their system. I think they sent me 1-2 replacement control boxes, and kept telling me "ground rod, ground rod, ground rod".

I have never run a ground rod with the Bulltear CandCnc, (hypertherm) and have never had a single issue.


I'll offer it up again, for anyone in the Winston-Salem or surrounding area, if you want to look at a Bulltear, let me know. I have not cut a single thing on it in well over a year, but I don't have a desire to sell it. I hope one day to get some land and have a garage that is large enough that I can have storage AND still have room to work on stuff...
 
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