The Flats Making...how much work in these type places

John Fuller

John Fuller

XJ Fanatic!!
Banned
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Boone NC
Hey guys. I'm really curious now that i've been to an Off Road Park twice now, I'd like to have a better understanding of how much work is/was involved in making it so I am better able to understand and give more appreciation to the makers/workers/laborers involved in such hard work...but i have like no idea what kind of work hours/weeks/months speaking it takes to get a park like The Flats to go from start to finish. I know it's probably never finished but you get my point. So, in advance i thank all the people who have invested their time and money and resources and equipment into making this park cause i can only imagine how much hard work and long hours it took to make the trails all through the woods and cutting down trees and such.
 
The most hands on owner I've met personally is Skip, the owner of Gulchesorv park in South Carolina. He's had it up and running for close to 10 years now. Even though he's technically retired, its still a full time job keeping it up and running. A few years ago he got in a financial bind and hosted a "Save the Gulches" ride and it luckily did just that.
 
I would say 40-50 man hours per open ride hour as a start..... I would say there is close to 10,000 man hours in that place if i had to guess. I have seen the man power and hours invested there. Also many many hours of heavy equipment.
 
snappy said:
I would say 40-50 man hours per open ride hour as a start..... I would say there is close to 10,000 man hours in that place if i had to guess. I have seen the man power and hours invested there. Also many many hours of heavy equipment.
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WOW!!! that's a lot of work (which i was figuring) but wow. so months wise, are we talking like months or years to get one ready to open? i wish i lived closer to The Flats cause i would show up every weekend to clean up, cut down, work and do whatever it takes to keep up with it. I think it's awesome what these parks have and the time invested in them.
 
John Fuller said:
WOW!!! that's a lot of work (which i was figuring) but wow. so months wise, are we talking like months or years to get one ready to open? i wish i lived closer to The Flats cause i would show up every weekend to clean up, cut down, work and do whatever it takes to keep up with it. I think it's awesome what these parks have and the time invested in them.
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I could be way off on these(someone correct me if i am wrong). We have had this discussion on opening a "nc4x4" offroad park funded by us but the $$$$ and man hours are staggering once you take into factor the insurance, lease/payment fees etc etc
 
you realy want to know just ask the man him self. jbird1ton on here
 
snappy said:
I could be way off on these(someone correct me if i am wrong). We have had this discussion on opening a "nc4x4" offroad park funded by us but the $$$$ and man hours are staggering once you take into factor the insurance, lease/payment fees etc etc
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Definitely had this discussion in the past.

If I remember correctly, even if the land is bought, and then leases to a group of partners on a yearly basis, plus the cost of making into a rideable park, was wayyyyyyyyyyy beyond the possible payoff.

About the only way to make it work, trying to remember the previous threads, that you should search for.

You need to already own the land and it be paid for, plus own a heavy equipment company, at which you can use your own personal equipment in all your spare time cutting trails and maintaining, all the while still earning income from the day job.

As it would take years to every break even in that situation.

This is why there are private parks that open and then close years later, even with a "regular" attendance.

The cliff notes of the previous threads:

It takes a fortune to build and maintain a park in cash and labor time.

Those who do it, are awesome and we as a wheeling community do not acknowledge that enough.

Most park entry fees are stupid cheap, when you look at the cost of parts/tires/fuel that we don't scoff at when needed.

Kudos to those in the wheeling community who have volunteered their time, money, and sweat into improving both public and private parks.

Cannot thank everyone enough.
 
i will def chat with him about it. it was this second trip riding around the trails and really hit me that wow, this is TONS of work people have put into all these trails, rocks, stumps, trees, hills, parking area, roads and was really amazed at how much work is involved in this stuff. Props to all the guys and gals who have worked on this place or others.
 
Mac5005 said:
Definitely had this discussion in the past.

If I remember correctly, even if the land is bought, and then leases to a group of partners on a yearly basis, plus the cost of making into a rideable park, was wayyyyyyyyyyy beyond the possible payoff.

About the only way to make it work, trying to remember the previous threads, that you should search for.

You need to already own the land and it be paid for, plus own a heavy equipment company, at which you can use your own personal equipment in all your spare time cutting trails and maintaining, all the while still earning income from the day job.

As it would take years to every break even in that situation.

This is why there are private parks that open and then close years later, even with a "regular" attendance.

The cliff notes of the previous threads:

It takes a fortune to build and maintain a park in cash and labor time.

Those who do it, are awesome and we as a wheeling community do not acknowledge that enough.

Most park entry fees are stupid cheap, when you look at the cost of parts/tires/fuel that we don't scoff at when needed.

Kudos to those in the wheeling community who have volunteered their time, money, and sweat into improving both public and private parks.

Cannot thank everyone enough.
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This is great information and for your comments exactly is why i posted this because it really does make me thankful to those who invest their time and resources. I really wish i could help in the upkeep but time/money/and limitations with the wife would keep me from traveling that far away to help otherwise i would buy my thanks and gratitude goes out to all the people who have done this and at least i am happy to be able to come down finally during the invites and pay to pitch in what little i can towards their hard work.
 
I am curious about the insurance thing though cause i hear so many different things: I've always heard there is no insurance needed if you post signs for "enter at your own risk". So i guess that is wrong and having that said, what does insurance do/what's it for.
 
John Fuller said:
I am curious about the insurance thing though cause i hear so many different things: I've always heard there is no insurance needed if you post signs for "enter at your own risk". So i guess that is wrong and having that said, what does insurance do/what's it for.
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Definitely must have insurance, don't thinks it's a requirement, unless for income?

and where the problems begin is when someone gets hurt.

Family's and health insurance companies and private lawyers with fight for every dime they can get when someone is injured.

Even if someone signs a liability waiver, a hold harmless agreement, has posted signs of ride at our own risk, the owner may be still held accountable.

I'm sure the insurance isn't cheap.

As far as helping, keep you name out there, as a lot of places have work weekends, volunteer days, open rides etc, for others to go out and help with parks.

For example, at a cleanup/work weekend at harlan, helper got a shot at some new trails being cut. First one up gets to name it.

Over New Years we got two trash bags of beer cans off different trails up there. We were just riding. You don't have to make a special trip to help out, just do what you can while you are there. All the little things help.

Also help by educating yourself and others about proper trail etiquette.

Clean up any trash you can, even if it's not yours. Set an example for others. Don't wrap cable around a tree, use a tree saver.

Shovel and bag up massive amounts of leaked fluids with dirt/kitty litter and put it in a trash bag and pack it out.

If you talk to the right people at most places and say " hey I've got a couple bags of trash etc from the trail today" they will follow up with, there a dumpster over there, feel free to put it there, or leave it here and I'll haul it off. Most of the management at the parks are gracious to help in any way to those that are helping them.
 
^^^will def keep all this in mind. We tried our best last weekend to clean up our campsite and the surrounding area and my jeep ended up with some extra trail trash as well...i'm all about keeping trails clean and safe and i figured that's what insurance was for...people seem to be so "sue happy" in america trying to get rich quick from any means necessary and that is one thing i can't stand about people!
 
Its not all about people.
If you were to get hurt there, and I mean seriously hurt, your health insurance company will investigate. If they determine you were hurt due to someone else's negligence they will refuse to pay your doctor bills UNLESS you sue. Now you are in a bad place.

The thing to keep in mind, when the Flats was being developed they had a crew 10-20 deep. On a given workday I've seen multiple pieces of heavy equipment running around. Get 15 guys 2 12 hour days you have 360 man hours right there.

I'd wager Snappy's 10,000 man hours may be low for that place.
 
Ron said:
your health insurance company will investigate. If they determine you were hurt due to someone else's negligence they will refuse to pay your doctor bills UNLESS you sue. Now you are in a bad place.
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did not know this
 
well I've gotten a really good idea and responses of what goes into a place like this so it is nice to know and appreciate the Park even more now having this knowledge of many peoples hard work. A Thank You doesn't seem enough but Great Job to All who have made it the awesome place that it is.
 
XJsavage said:
The most hands on owner I've met personally is Skip, the owner of Gulchesorv park in South Carolina. He's had it up and running for close to 10 years now. Even though he's technically retired, its still a full time job keeping it up and running. A few years ago he got in a financial bind and hosted a "Save the Gulches" ride and it luckily did just that.
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Skip is a great guy, total trip! He puts his heart into that park.
 
your roll in this is to show up on workdays if invited. THEN youll understand. otherwise, just go away. again.

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To the owners / operators / workers. keep up the good work, and fight the good fight.
 
Chuckman said:
your roll in this is to show up on workdays if invited. THEN youll understand. otherwise, just go away. again.

----

To the owners / operators / workers. keep up the good work, and fight the good fight.
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were you being funny...i lost you on this one. oh trust me i do understand hard work...for 3years back in the day i used to clear lots for a guy at 18p/h with chainsaw, 12ft trailer and my jeep all alone...14hour days 6days a week and these were thick woods too not thin so i know hard work. I built log homes for 2.5 years too so i've had my share of hard labor and still doing it...that's why i got such bad knees. been on my own since i was 16 working construction trades to this day so i know manual labor and at my age, i can still usually run circles around guys in their young twenties...until my knees give out lol.
 
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