Thread strength ? for you engineers

justjeepin86

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Location
Winston-Salem, NC
So I'm no engineer, just a machinist. I need to know what torque value can be applied to a fastener before harming it or the material it is threaded into. Specifically in 2024-T3 plate with a 5/16-24 roll formed thread using a SHCS. We are doing a bunch of stupid tests at work and I don't believe anyone has a clue. We have done a pull test to determine how strong the joint is, but for this application, it's has a clamping feature and we need more torque to make the clamp work. I think we can torque it much more. There are approx. 9 threads of engagement with a 75% thread and are torquing to 170 in/lbs. Can anyone help?
 
So if you look at torque charts for a particular type of fastener, those charts have torque value for a particular size and particular steel tensile strength, etc. The charts should have the basic information about where the torque value comes from, such as 75% torque to yield, lubrication, etc. So if you know you have a 170ksi cap screw, and the chart is for a 170ksi cap screw, it will give you the suggested torque (based on 75% of yield, lubricated, etc) that is safe for that screw. That's a good starting point for the fastener, without doing an involved bolted joint analysis.
The 2024 plate is more involved, as there are usually some thread shear stress calculations to find out what it will actually hold, and of course this also changes if there is a threaded insert, etc. There are threaded hole charts for different materials that will give tapped hole strength based on depth to diameter, etc.. You're a machinist, so you already know that using a Heli-Coil or similar insert will increase strength as well.


I think you need to back up and think about what clamping problem you're trying to solve here though; are you having problems with something leaking because you're losing clamp load, or having problems with cyclic fatigue, or with fastener pullout, those sorts of things....

Bolted joint design usually starts with a clamp load analysis, to find out what strength you need for the application. Then you find out how to get there based on fastener size, quantity, tensile strength, torque, etc.
 
So if you look at torque charts for a particular type of fastener, those charts have torque value for a particular size and particular steel tensile strength, etc. The charts should have the basic information about where the torque value comes from, such as 75% torque to yield, lubrication, etc. So if you know you have a 170ksi cap screw, and the chart is for a 170ksi cap screw, it will give you the suggested torque (based on 75% of yield, lubricated, etc) that is safe for that screw. That's a good starting point for the fastener, without doing an involved bolted joint analysis.
The 2024 plate is more involved, as there are usually some thread shear stress calculations to find out what it will actually hold, and of course this also changes if there is a threaded insert, etc. There are threaded hole charts for different materials that will give tapped hole strength based on depth to diameter, etc.. You're a machinist, so you already know that using a Heli-Coil or similar insert will increase strength as well.


I think you need to back up and think about what clamping problem you're trying to solve here though; are you having problems with something leaking because you're losing clamp load, or having problems with cyclic fatigue, or with fastener pullout, those sorts of things....

Bolted joint design usually starts with a clamp load analysis, to find out what strength you need for the application. Then you find out how to get there based on fastener size, quantity, tensile strength, torque, etc.

I figured I would get a reply from you and I appreciate it. This is a little complicated just because of the situation. This joint is clamping a round tube by deflection. I can also tell you that the correct steps were not taken during the product design. Just trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shi#. I did find the suggested torque value for the fastener. Thanks for the help.
 
I figured I would get a reply from you and I appreciate it. This is a little complicated just because of the situation. This joint is clamping a round tube by deflection. I can also tell you that the correct steps were not taken during the product design. Just trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shi#. I did find the suggested torque value for the fastener. Thanks for the help.

Also keep in mind that a torque chart will usually assume steel-on-steel, so may be incorrect for aluminum.
 
Also keep in mind that a torque chart will usually assume steel-on-steel, so may be incorrect for aluminum.
True, but I already know we can bust the fastener from a pull test before the threads in the aluminum fatigues. It breaks at about 12k lbs of pull. That surprised me, to tell you the truth. I know the answer to the problem we are having, we just can't do much about it because of the situation without a bunch of re-testing. This is an aviation part, so that makes it more complicated. I guess that is the main problem. I really wanted to put together something that showed engineering they effed up in the design and a better way to do it next time.
 
I got nothin to add except that 170 inch pounds is a lot of force.
A ton of foot pounds... literally
 
Man, I'm glad I don't do that for a living. Drill a through hole and put a grade 8 locknut on the backside of the plate and call it good. Unless it's a blind hole. I can still see well enough, so I can't offer any advice there.

You working on a new seat ejector project for United?

@RatLabGuy - huh???
 
I think you're doing your conversion backwards? 170*12=2040, but should be 170/12....?
doh. You're right.
It's early.
 
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