tow rig tradin diesel for gas

4x4fever

4x4fever

New Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Location
abingdon,va
ive got an 88 350 dually crewcab with the 7.3 and a banks turbo on it and well its 2wd truck and i hate it!! aside from having the awesome engine and turbo id like to get rid of it.

what i found to trade it for is an 89 F250 4wd with a 351 in it. its in a lot better shape and rides better. i like it alot more.

am i gonna be crying over the difference in pulling power vs. the two? im sure there is a diff but it might pull my 5500 lb jeep maybe twice a month. im not interested in getting there first just getting there.

maybe i should hold out for another diesel truck? all im lookin for is one in better c ondiiton than my dually and a 4wd truck with SRW im tired of gettin that tank of a dually stuck
 
In my opinon you wouldn't be happy. Not only when towing but also at the pump. I know that I am currently not happy with my tow rig because I have to drive it everyday. Of course now I am looking for an older diesel, someone to buy mine, and something to drive everyday.
 
If the gas (351) truck has 4.10 gears with stock size tires, it should pull the load you describe well enough to make most people happy. It will not have the power of your turbo'd 7.3, but it should work.

It just depends on what you consider *enough*. It would be enough for me, but some folks are not happy without a big block or a turbo diesel. :)
 
im pretty sure the truck isnt 4.10 , i think i could live with a gasser if i didnt have to do 35mph interstate drivin on steep grades
 
I've got a 99 f250 with the 5.4. I see you are in abingdon. You should be *mostly* OK running to places up and down I81 there. Any good grades (like on I77 above the NC line) you'll be wanting to un-trailer your rig and drive it up too. :) You'll miss the Diesel. I'd find a BB gasser or later V10 if you want gas.

I pulled about 7k total out to TN from central NC last summer. Pretty well ran with traffic all the way, except for Black Mountain near Asheville area. Had to run about 40 up that grade. And you'll have to give yourself a lot more time/space when merging into faster traffic at an onramp.
 
I'll never tow with a gasser again. Even just occasionally. My cummins is my daily driver too and still rides great for a 3/4 truck better than the fords but the chevys ride the best with the ifs front. I pull old fort mtn outside of asheville coming back from dpg runnin 65-70 mph with 8000lb behind it with the cruise set gettin 18-20 mpg. My truck is stock by the way. My buddy tows with a dodge V10 it does excellent, just really crappy mileage loaded or unloaded but it is the stoutest gasser I've seen.
 
4x4fever said:
maybe i should hold out for another diesel truck? all im lookin for is one in better c ondiiton than my dually and a 4wd truck with SRW im tired of gettin that tank of a dually stuck
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My '92 4x4 is in the For Sale section (as of 5 minutes ago)... Buy it, swap your SideWinder on it and you've got your answer! :beer:
 
superpile said:
I pull old fort mtn outside of asheville coming back from dpg runnin 65-70 mph with 8000lb behind it with the cruise set
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Please warn us before you do this next time. I have family and friends that use that road.
If you are pulling 8k lbs and running 15-20 mph over the speed limit, you are a dumbass.
 
uglyjeepoffroad jealous?:flipoff2:
My truck like most 3/4 trucks can haul 10-12k with no problems. Besides we are talking about going up hill not down, I do 50 or so down that mtn to maintain a safe speed and I have dual trailer brakes too for a controled descent with a brake away box. I believe the speed limit is 55 by the way and that is MR. Dumbass to you ugly heep.
 
The diesel powered rig you will miss when towing for the biggest reason: fuel consumption. The 5.8 low compression gas burner you are looking at will probably tow your load OK. You will be in the right lane on long grades and you will be stopping pretty often when you are getting 7-9 mpg. I would look for a mid 90s PSD or Cummins powered truck that is in your price range if possible. Good luck.
 
am i gonna be crying over the difference in pulling power vs. the two?
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One word - yes! Not to mention fuel economy. Figure on twice the money for gas and half the power. It's a tank for a reason and shouldn't be moved without a trailer. Tanks handle trailers very nicely. I have a very nice 97 F350 with a 460 and bought a beat up run down 96 diesel. Since then I rarely drive the gas truck.
 
How do you guys figure 1/2 the milage ? and 1/2 the power ? This guy is pulling 1 jeep 2x a month..

Lets run some numbers... feel free to correct and add to it as needed..

I'll use my new truck as an example. It's a 95 C2500 I paid $1900 and to be fair with my numbers I'll have $3000 into it by the time I'm done changing some parts. I figure I tow/drive my truck 5,000 miles a year. Lets see what it cost to drive my truck per mile..

Gas
5000 miles @ 10mpg @ $2.20 gal = $1100

Diesel
5000 miles @ 15mpg @ 2.50 gal = $833

So strictly based on MPG im spending ~$275 per year more...

How much more does the diesel truck cost ? How many years will it take to break even just to buy the diesel truck ? Will the diesel require more/extra maintenance?
 
yager said:
How much more does the diesel truck cost ? How many years will it take to break even just to buy the diesel truck ? Will the diesel require more/extra maintenance?
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- How much more does the diesel truck cost ? Anywhere from 30-50% more than a gasser

- How many years will it take to break even just to buy the diesel truck ? Many... the last WAGs I saw were about 20 years

- Will the diesel require more/extra maintenance? assuming doing the work yourself, your looking at $75-100+/oil change vs $15-20 for a gasser, fuel filters = $40+ vs $4, and I wouldn't care to guess what the extra 500# over the front axle is good for (general wear & tear wise)

awhyfiles.org_shorties_061hypnosis_images_ticking.gif
...you MUST tow with a diesel...you MUST tow with a diesel...you MUST tow with a diesel

:lol:
 
Caver Dave said:
- Will the diesel require more/extra maintenance? assuming doing the work yourself, your looking at $75-100+/oil change vs $15-20 for a gasser, fuel filters = $40+ vs $4, and I wouldn't care to guess what the extra 500# over the front axle is good for (general wear & tear wise)
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Apparently, you don't do YOUR own maintenance, from those prices, you let the dealer do yours.. :flipoff2:

Oil change on the Cummins costs $30 even. $23 on oil, $7 for the good fleetguard filter.
Fuel filter is $12. yes, it is changed far more often.
The diesel is closer to 1000# more than the gasser.. Hell, my short block weighs as much as 2 dressed small block Chevies.

Diesel trucks made ALOT of sense when diesel was quite a bit less expensive than gas.. With gasoline now being notably less expensive than gas, I dunno anymore.
 
My point was, do the math.. Those are 2 examples using my current gas truck and my previous 01' PSD.... Everyones maintenance schedule and routine is different... My PSD cost me a bit more to do routine maintenance because I had a coolant filter on it as well as a bypass oil setup.. (+3 qts oil).

I know not every gasser will get 10 nor every diesel get just 15.. Obviously if you have need to run a diesel the cost is irrelevant..
 
awesome keep arguing!!! im pretty sure im gonna base my decision on the base cost and so far gassers are way ahead. i seen an 89 with a 351 4wd, new paint, alum rims, low miles and nice mud tires for 1900, on the same lot was a 89 diesel, auto with average miles, clear coat peeling with 4wd but it was 5500. who can argue with that when ill have 1900 way before ill have 5500. ive had my diesel since august and ive put about 1000 miles on it and gotten stuck on more than one occasion.
 
A couple things to add.

The maintenance schedule on a diesel is far different than a gasser. Running rotella in a CTD 10k between changes is recommended and I know several folks that are stretching that to (cring) 15k and even 20k. That is opposed to 3k on a gasser.

So your gasser needs service 3x for every diesel service.

Gasser is still cheaper but the numbers are $60 vs. $75 so basically an extra $5 a month, I would call it a wash, but that may make a difference to some.

The diesel price currently is ridiculous but it will be coming down as the new ULSD conversion costs are absorbed. It will be within 5% of 87octane by July.

So I will call this a short term advantage gas.

Now the mileage argument, you tow 500 miles a year, but do you only drive 5k/ year?

If this is strictly a tow rig and not a daily driver you have a valid argument, if not then gas milage must be calculatedfor over all miles not just towing miles.

Example:
My 04 F250 gas stick got 11-12mpg empty and 8-10 loaded. My previous 6.0 stick got 16-17 loaded and 18-19 empty. So it was a significant difference even empty.

I have no idea why the mpg was so crappy with the gasser (3.73 gears) but it was the #1 reason I sold it. The 6.0 was an 03, do I need to explain why I switched to the gasser initially?

Finally look at service life. A properly maintained diesel will see 350k without really breaking a sweat. Not very many gassers doing that in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. So if you are in it for the long haul, look at the long term replacement cost of an engine.

The next tow rig I buy will be like my 98 7.3 (which had 525k on the clock when I traded for my 03) and will be in the fleet for a while, therefor I have to look at long term. If this is a 1 or 2 year option for you that may not factor in.

But thats why they make both, different strokes for different folks. I just wish everyone would start hating diesels so the damn prices would come down a bit...
 
Sure, it costs more to maintain. I change the oil in my Superduty every 5k miles - 15 quarts of Rotella T ($8 per gallon), and a filter ($12 or so at International Dealer), in addition to a fuel filter every 15k miles ($40 at the International Dealer).
The bottom line for me is that a diesel just plain pulls BETTER - in my opinion, of course. In addition, I just like diesel, and everything about it - except for the price per gallon right now. As long as I can afford it, I will always own a diesel truck.

- Mac
 
SkyHiK5 said:
Now the mileage argument, you tow 500 miles a year, but do you only drive 5k/ year?
If this is strictly a tow rig and not a daily driver you have a valid argument, if not then gas milage must be calculatedfor over all miles not just towing miles.
.
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this is strictly a tow rig. if my jeeps not behind it then im haulin trash to the dump or goin locally to pickup parts.

far away parts are retrieved with my grand cherokee DD and a 4x8 trailer.

lookin at the difference between the two 89's i exampled earlier that is a 3600 dollar differene between the two. i could rebuild both axle the engine, tcase and tranny for that much and the gasser looked twice as good as the diesel which was almost 3 times as expensive.

that being said, at one point in time i drove a 97 civic got 30mpg and i wanted a tow rig so i went shopping for a new truck a 250-350 diesel in the 99-03 range. that was going to serve double duty as a tow rig and daily transportation and i wouldnt have even thought of a gasser and the carsalesman was actually trying to push an 01 250 with a V10 on me ( great way to make a sale when you want a diesel) and i wasnt interested at all.

i think any truck i buy would only see maybe 5k a year, tellico once or twice a year (5hour ride) harlan a couple times a year (2 hour ride) and mostly callalantee (30 minutes) so either way i doubt imma wear any truck out.
 
SkyHiK5 said:
The maintenance schedule on a diesel is far different than a gasser. Running rotella in a CTD 10k between changes is recommended and I know several folks that are stretching that to (cring) 15k and even 20k. That is opposed to 3k on a gasser.
So your gasser needs service 3x for every diesel service..
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Do you work for Jiffy Lube? That whole 3,000 mile thing is total, complete, unadulterated bullshit. Look in the manual- Unless you tow for 2 mile trips or drive a taxi, even back in the mid 90's, 7500 mile servicing was the norm, and JUST like diesel motor oil, gasser motor oil has come a ways since then.
 
Rich said:
Do you work for Jiffy Lube?
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Nah, I just change my own oil...
I've went 7500 miles and OMG what black thick shit.

7500 is recommended as long as there are no harsh conditions. Like bumper to bumper traffic.

I work in Charlotte, I bumper to bumper an hour a day...

And also I am just a maintenance freak. I service my tranny every 25k rotate tires every 5k etc...

But for some reason my shit lasts forever...weird huh?
 
Every engine I've ever had was fine at 7500.. Getting dark, but certainly hadn't lost its viscosity..

My Civic at 240k+,
CRX Si (Which spent 3 years in Germany seeing extended running at 5500+RPM for an hour at a time) at 185k,
The tacoma with over 100k, (which saw PLENTY of "extreme conditions" which would make stop & go look like a country drive),
etc. etc... and not one of them burned a drop of oil, all made great power & compression..
My various BM's in Germany all consumed oil, but they all did when I bought 'em, so that's not exactly my fault.. (dang valve guides)

If it makes ya sleep better, go for it at 3500. On a gasser, I prefer to look at the color, smell, and texture of the oil, not some arbitrary number that was put in the book because some idiot would NEVER change the oil if a number wasn't listed anyway. There's been times that I've had to change it well before 3500, but most of the time, 7000-8000 was fine, and my shit doesn't exactly just fall apart, either.

Which leads me to an farther off topic thought - WTF is up with all this "lifetime fill" crap the factory is coming out with? '07 Tundra claims to have lifetime ATF fluid fill.. What do they define as "lifetime"??
 
Rich said:
Which leads me to an farther off topic thought - WTF is up with all this "lifetime fill" crap the factory is coming out with? '07 Tundra claims to have lifetime ATF fluid fill.. What do they define as "lifetime"??
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Mercedes has been doing it since 96' on their trannys. Lifetime equates to about 150k until the tranny goes "boom", even earlier on the ML models, I've seen them crap out at less than 60k. We recommend customers change the tranny fluid every 60k, we have several with well over 300k miles on the original trannys by following our recommendations.The downside is the fluid cost between 8 and 9 bucks a quart x 8qts. As for changing the oil my thought is, it's cheap maintenance. I change the oil in my CTD every 3000-3500 miles, I know it's overkill but I don't plan on buying another truck anytime soon. Mercedes on the other hand says with mobil one you don't need to change it but every 10k miles, I wish I had a pic of one of those motors with 120k or so on it that someone had followed the 10k recommendation, they look like someone added a few cups of potting soil at every 10k also. We don't let them go any more than 7500 miles between changes at the absolute most.
 
Rich said:
Which leads me to an farther off topic thought - WTF is up with all this "lifetime fill" crap the factory is coming out with? '07 Tundra claims to have lifetime ATF fluid fill.. What do they define as "lifetime"??
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Kinda like the Klein tool lifetime guarantee.

EVery tool is guaranteed for it's entire life, whenever you break one and take it back the lifetime of that tool is...

Kinda a play on words IMO, that tranny fluid will be good for the life of the tranny. Sure you might could extend the life by changing it....
 
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