UPDATED ***Yoke, cap retention

SHINTON

SHINTON

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Location
Triad area of NC
I have a question for our technical crew here...on the yoke which is bolted into the axle, there is a small tab on each side that keeps the caps in on a ujoint. My question is why is the tab so small/why cannot it not be MUCH much bigger?

I stole the following picture from a site, and you can sorta see the little tabs on each side. There is also a beveled area where the cap sits 'perfectly' so when the ujoint is in there is has a groove on say the outer 1/16th edge maybe?

In my case there is NOT an outer snap ring, the ubolts are simply snugged down over the ujoint caps and that is all.

So...this got me to thinking, why not weld in a flat piece, about the size of a quarter (or nickel) to completly cover the cap and make it "impossible" for it to spit out from under the ubolt?

That is a bit hard to describe but is anyone getting the picture? I 'sorta' did this at WV when we attempted to weld the cap to the yoke, the weld didn't really penetrate the cap but sorta created a new tab for the one that had worn/broke off. This actually held up the next day.

So..again, assuming lets say the CAP is 1 1/8" diameter, why not weld in a 7/8"ish diameter round piece to the yoke acting as a giant 'tab'?

awww.metropartsmarket.com_rearend_Flange_Width_2.jpg


Sam...cap spitter...Hinton

The
 
If ya keeps yer junk tight, they won't spit out anyway... :flipoff2:

Rich "loving my flanges" Q.
 
so as i understand it, you don't have those tabs on your yoke?
Mine did not have them as well and i didn't want to run it on the highway. i thought centrifical force would pull the ujoint caps off
i took a washer and cut it in half, welded it to the side of the yoke so now it can't spit out the sides. kindoff like the little tab in your picture but since its in a U shape, its all the way around the u joint.
Understand

tyler

ps. doesn't seem to affect any balance problem and no vibration.
 
SHINTON said:
So...this got me to thinking, why not weld in a flat piece, about the size of a quarter (or nickel) to completly cover the cap and make it "impossible" for it to spit out from under the ubolt?
Click to expand...

That'll keep the caps from coming out for sure... the joint will just explode from now on! :D
 
they are aligment tabs to center things up and dont serve much other purpose after you tighten the straps or u-bolts, yes they can help hold it in after things loosen up but thats not the purpose...

tighten the u-bolts
 
One of John's yokes was missing one of those tangs. It had broken off. He did exactly like you are describing and welded a washer on. So far so good.

DK
 
yager said:
they are aligment tabs to center things up and dont serve much other purpose after you tighten the straps or u-bolts, yes they can help hold it in after things loosen up but thats not the purpose...

tighten the u-bolts
Click to expand...

And use locktight........so they don't loosen up on you.

Also, not saying you can't weld a casting.......but strength would be a concern. New yokes only like $45.
 
Well if I can ever find my spare driveshaft I bought I think it has a 1350 yoke on it and I will buy a 1350 yoke for the pinion. (Thus the old 1310 stuff will become trail spares)

Keeping the bolts tight is a good thing too...not to mention an anti-wrap bar which hopefully will keep my junk from going to 'bad' angles! :)

Sam
 
Make sure you have new lock nuts, lock washers or some type of locktite. That way they will stay tightskeees.
 
Caver Dave said:
That'll keep the caps from coming out for sure... the joint will just explode from now on! :D
Click to expand...


I agree with Dave (not here)
Bolstering the side of the yoke will help keep the caps from coming off which will then snap the joint perhaps.
The root of your issue is wrap on climbs, fix that and you won't have to mod your yokes in the first place unless of course you want to :)


S.
 
SHINTON said:
Well if I can ever find my spare driveshaft I bought I think it has a 1350 yoke on it and I will buy a 1350 yoke for the pinion. (Thus the old 1310 stuff will become trail spares)

Keeping the bolts tight is a good thing too...not to mention an anti-wrap bar which hopefully will keep my junk from going to 'bad' angles! :)

Sam
Click to expand...

Sam,
Now I see what your problem is. I could be way wrong on this, but I think you have to run 1310 or 1350, not interchange them. Slapping in a 1310 to get you off the trail will probably work for a while since it is smaller than the 1350. I was looking for the dimensions and saw this tech articel http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/52458/index5.html
They say you can buy a special application u-joint with different caps. I have never looked into that and I don't know how much they are, but normal spicer joints are like $10 bucks a pop so the special ones may be about that or slightly more. This might be a good option for you and is cheap (in my opinion).
 
etjeep said:
Sam,
Now I see what your problem is. I could be way wrong on this, but I think you have to run 1310 or 1350, not interchange them. Slapping in a 1310 to get you off the trail will probably work for a while since it is smaller than the 1350. I was looking for the dimensions and saw this tech articel http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/52458/index5.html
They say you can buy a special application u-joint with different caps. I have never looked into that and I don't know how much they are, but normal spicer joints are like $10 bucks a pop so the special ones may be about that or slightly more. This might be a good option for you and is cheap (in my opinion).
Click to expand...

Not trying to interchange, currently my yoke on the axle is a 1310 and the 'yoke' on my driveshaft is a 1310.

I think my spare driveshaft is actually a 1350...and if that is true I will buy a 1350 yoke for the axle so I can use the bigger ujoint.

As Sheldon has mentioned, my real issue is the lack of anti-wrap bar, which is on my to do list, esp since it is REAL obvious I need it! :)

And...assuming I go the 1350 route, I will "fix" my current 1310 stuff by welding in something to help hold in the caps, etc in case I ever need to swap.

OTOH...it actually might make ALOT more sense to buy another set of 1310 stuff (maybe 4140 steel) that way I can have swappable items, wouldn't have to change both axle and dshaft on the trail in a future failure...

Thx for the help everyone
Sam
 
etjeep said:
Sam,
They say you can buy a special application u-joint with different caps. I have never looked into that and I don't know how much they are, but normal spicer joints are like $10 bucks a pop so the special ones may be about that or slightly more. This might be a good option for you and is cheap (in my opinion).
Click to expand...

Conversion joints are fairly common. I am running a 1330/1350 conversion joint on my rear driveshaft to hook my Bronco driveshaft up to the 14 bolt rearend. My buddy is also running a conversion joint for his Blazer shaft to 14 bolt. It is a Spicer joint and I think it was about $25 at Fleetpride.

DK
 
Sam,

If you swap in the 1350 shaft along with a new 1350 pinion yoke, you should get a 1310/1350 conversion joint for you current shaft so you will have a spare one ready to drop in out on the trail.

DK
 
SHINTON said:
Not trying to interchange, currently my yoke on the axle is a 1310 and the 'yoke' on my driveshaft is a 1310.

I think my spare driveshaft is actually a 1350...and if that is true I will buy a 1350 yoke for the axle so I can use the bigger ujoint.

As Sheldon has mentioned, my real issue is the lack of anti-wrap bar, which is on my to do list, esp since it is REAL obvious I need it! :)

And...assuming I go the 1350 route, I will "fix" my current 1310 stuff by welding in something to help hold in the caps, etc in case I ever need to swap.

OTOH...it actually might make ALOT more sense to buy another set of 1310 stuff (maybe 4140 steel) that way I can have swappable items, wouldn't have to change both axle and dshaft on the trail in a future failure...

Thx for the help everyone
Sam
Click to expand...
Sam,
Sorry if I misunderstood what you said. Sounds like you have a few other issues to solve your wrap first. I was thinking different u-joints might possibly save a few bucks and some aggrivation.
 
drkelly said:
Conversion joints are fairly common. I am running a 1330/1350 conversion joint on my rear driveshaft to hook my Bronco driveshaft up to the 14 bolt rearend. My buddy is also running a conversion joint for his Blazer shaft to 14 bolt. It is a Spicer joint and I think it was about $25 at Fleetpride.

DK
Click to expand...

DK,
Thanks. I learned a new word today. Conversion joints.
 
Universal Automotive
1350 is alot stronger than 1310 it is 2 sizes bigger it goes 1310-1330-1350 and so on. You will see alot less problems using 1350. May i suggest if you don't wan't the small tabs for your pinion yoke, they make a yoke with a full tab on it from ear to ear, instead of the small tab. Also use a Spicer Life non-greasable u-joint (5-799X) instead of the greasable (5-178X) they are way stronger cause the trunions are not drilled out.

If you have any questions or need any parts, give me a shout. We do all of CRS's driveshatfs.
704-721-3319

Thanks, Josh
 
Personally, I'd stick with the greasable joints.. it's hard to break a 1350 joint anyway (He wasn't breaking 1310's), but the ability to push out the contaminates that WILL get into any joint is a big bonus in my book. My favorite wheeling spot has quite a bit of water driving...

Just my $.02 for a trail rig application.
 
Nah, fawk 'em.

Pushing grease out of them fawks the seals.... much faster than than the seals on an SPL joint will dry out.

Granted, dunking a hot joint in cold water will want to draw some water in... but you'll still get several years of use out of a sealed joint.

Want a good example? Tow your boat ~100mi to the lake, then submerge the hot rear diff in the river while you unload. Repeat every weekend for most of the summer. You'll get 3 yrs on that joint, easy.
 
Well the thing about it is when you are pumping a joint full of grease, and it comes out of the rubber seals, your not (pushing out the contaminates) your just pumping new grease in whatever little void spot was there, and the rest is coming out the seals.
The Spicer Life U-joint is good in my book cause 1- Its stronger 2- It has a double internal and external seal--- to aid in keeping out most of the dirt/water.
Granted the 1350 is stronger than a 1310, they can still snap like a pretzel under the right conditions-- like i've seen before. The whole point of swaping from 1310 to 1350 is that with 1310 he spit out a u-joint,----which means his bolts are not staying tight or too much stress on too little of a joint.
That's my $0.03 worth
 
You've dealt with this kinda thing a whole helluvalot more with this than I have, so I'll just have to believe ya when you say it... If I ever have a spicer u-joint in my rig, might have to try that.. ;)
 
Ok...in looking around a bit more and swapping a PM or two.. my next question is this... assuming I went with a 4140 steel version of the pinion yoke... is there someone making the same 4140 steel version of the slip yoke on the driveshaft?

(If not....then the slip yoke is "less hard" than the pinion and thus will be the weak spot? More prone/likely to bend/break ears around the ujoint?)

In other words, does it really make sense to put 4140 on one side of the ujoint if it isn't on the other?

[One possible reason would be the slip yoke on dshaft is $40 a pop from bronco graveyard vs 80-90 for the pinion yoke...and in theory bolting off/on a new pinion yoke MAY require...something in the crush sleeve area for some axles?]

...which leads me to another question, my reading on P4x4 is that the 9" you can get away with not putting in new crush sleeve on pinion when replacing the yoke...can anyone prove/disprove this theory? (This is a 99% trail rig now...only miles onroad are to/from trailheads it seems if that makes a diff)

Sam
 
Can ya not convert it to a flange, and not worry about all this cap & strap crap ever again? Since you're looking at a new yoke, and a new driveshaft end...
 
Someone else mentioned this but I cannot "picture" what the difference is? Right now I use two ubolts over the caps (as opposed to what I have seen called straps like on TJs) but the terminology maybe the same?

I am trying to figure out how a flange works...I know it is a "flat circle" on the pinion, but what "surrounds" the ujoint? Any pictures of this, I tried googling it a while back and couldn't find the right words.

(Actually I told him I would take what he had, was a really good deal, so it looks like I WILL be converting to this style but would still love to see what I am getting/doing)

Sam...flange idiot...Hinton
 
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