Use a torque wrench to torque your wheels to spec?

[JThomas]

I only run half of them, but I torque them twice as tight as specs call for

 

[chuckwhut]

i just crank up some journey real loud and stare at my lugnuts til they tighten themselves out of fear!

 

[Dylan W.]

i just crank up some journey real loud and stare at my lugnuts til they tighten themselves out of fear!

then you run em' up and down the boulevard

 

[jeepinmatt]

I only run half of them, but I torque them twice as tight as specs call for

That is beautiful...

 

[Jakemd98]

I've also heard that anti-seize changes the torque characteristics when tightening things, but alot of this talk is like the "Which oil do you use" threads... If it works for you, and your wheels don't fall off, then more power to you.

true it will change the torque characteristics, BUT so does an extension... And the other thing is you better believe the corrosion on a stud will also change the torque characteristic. so it's a necessary evil (if that's how you view anti-seize), but in my mind it's a MUCH better option then having seized lug-nuts/any other bolt on a vehicle. And maybe most of this is coming from living in Ohio for 17 years where the salt on the road will rust stainless steel in one season and now living right next to the beach where salt is everywhere.

The other thing is... The main reason for torquing lug nuts is #1 so you don't over tighten them, but more importantly is to make sure ALL of your lug nuts are pushing against the wheel with the same pressure. If there is one lug nut that is slightly loose it will eventually work itself off and then another one will follow suit and it will go from there. Which is really not a big deal with an 8 lug vehicle, but 4-5 lug vehicle loosing 2 lug nuts could be very bad.

And the last thing is... I would hate to not torque my wheels out of pure laziness, and end up loosing a tire at 70 mph on a busy high-way. If you can avoid a possible issue/injury with preventative measures that takes less than 5 minutes, then why not just do it? In my opinion, if you have the capability to do it then it is just irresponsible to not.

 

[NC_Mog]

I torque mine using antiseize also.

x2

 

[ol'Jeeps]

My wheel studs are so old that if I tried to torque em to "spec", I'd twist em off!

 

[Rich]

true it will change the torque characteristics, BUT so does an extension...

Negative.

 

[rob92xj]

Impact with a torque stick and forget about them.
I hate anti-seize on lug nuts there really is not need for it on most newer vehicles with dichromate(gray colored) coated studs.

 

[Ron]

Negative.

what part are you disagreeing with?
I will agree that anti seize does not change the torque, however I would contest if you are saying that an extension does not change torque reading....

metallurgy and deflection being what they are it pretty much guaranteed.

 

[jeepinmatt]

what part are you disagreeing with?
I will agree that anti seize does not change the torque, however I would contest if you are saying that an extension does not change torque reading....

metallurgy and deflection being what they are it pretty much guaranteed.

The extension will not change the torque reading, but the way you use it could. Torque transmitted is torque transmitted. The extension may flex/twist, but it will still transmit the torque. If you push down on a spring with 1000lbs of force, the spring will compress, but the scale will still read 1000lbs of force. This all changes with dynamic forces, but static or very low rate forces are not affected by rigidity.

What an extension does change is the angle that the force is applied to the bolt. A socket directly on the ratchet has very little shear (leverage in the direction you are pushing) force, and a majority twisting force. Adding an extension increases the leverage on the bolt or stud. Imagine using a 10ft extension and a ratchet. If you didn't put one hand on the head of the ratchet, you would basically just be leveraging the bolt, and not doing much twisting due to the length of the lever (extension). The effect is much less dramatic with a 1ft extension, but still present.

The important thing is that a torque wrench measures the twisting force, so you will be getting that much torque on the bolt. However, with the extension adding leverage, it does put a higher friction load on the bolt, giving you less tightness with the same "torque" reading, because you are fighting friction and metal compression, not just metal compression.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

 

[JoshRountree]

The extension will not change the torque reading, but the way you use it could. Torque transmitted is torque transmitted. The extension may flex/twist, but it will still transmit the torque. If you push down on a spring with 1000lbs of force, the spring will compress, but the scale will still read 1000lbs of force. This all changes with dynamic forces, but static or very low rate forces are not affected by rigidity.
What an extension does change is the angle that the force is applied to the bolt. A socket directly on the ratchet has very little shear (leverage in the direction you are pushing) force, and a majority twisting force. Adding an extension increases the leverage on the bolt or stud. Imagine using a 10ft extension and a ratchet. If you didn't put one hand on the head of the ratchet, you would basically just be leveraging the bolt, and not doing much twisting due to the length of the lever (extension). The effect is much less dramatic with a 1ft extension, but still present.
The important thing is that a torque wrench measures the twisting force, so you will be getting that much torque on the bolt. However, with the extension adding leverage, it does put a higher friction load on the bolt, giving you less tightness with the same "torque" reading, because you are fighting friction and metal compression, not just metal compression.
Does that make sense to anyone else?

I think we need to decide if we're talking about a socket extension, or a handle extension aka cheater bar.

I've read that a socket extension does not change the amount of torque, and since the torque equation depends on how long the lever arm is, I think that a cheater bar will change the torque characterisitcs. BUT, since the spring inside the torque wrench is what decides when it "clicks" I'm not sure if either matters....

 

[jeepinmatt]

I was referring to a socket extension. The length of your cheater bar lever does not matter, as the torque is measured about the pivot point. .

 

[Merritt]

Torque to 90 lb ft

 

[Ron]

The extension will not change the torque reading, but the way you use it could. Torque transmitted is torque transmitted. The extension may flex/twist, but it will still transmit the torque. If you push down on a spring with 1000lbs of force, the spring will compress, but the scale will still read 1000lbs of force. This all changes with dynamic forces, but static or very low rate forces are not affected by rigidity.
What an extension does change is the angle that the force is applied to the bolt. A socket directly on the ratchet has very little shear (leverage in the direction you are pushing) force, and a majority twisting force. Adding an extension increases the leverage on the bolt or stud. Imagine using a 10ft extension and a ratchet. If you didn't put one hand on the head of the ratchet, you would basically just be leveraging the bolt, and not doing much twisting due to the length of the lever (extension). The effect is much less dramatic with a 1ft extension, but still present.
The important thing is that a torque wrench measures the twisting force, so you will be getting that much torque on the bolt. However, with the extension adding leverage, it does put a higher friction load on the bolt, giving you less tightness with the same "torque" reading, because you are fighting friction and metal compression, not just metal compression.
Does that make sense to anyone else?

this all makes perfect sense and in a vacuum is accurate.
For a steady applied force it's even practically accurate.

However when using an impact the impact does not apply constant force it is a on-off-on-off force.

As a result at rest the lugnut is still, the socket is still, the extension is still, and the driver is still.

The moment a force is applied a finite amount of torque is introduced. That torque is transmitted from the impact to the extension to the socket to the lugnut. The law of inertia says the torque will be passed to the least resistive object (I.E. the loose lugnut) Once that lugnut reaches a certain tightness it becomes easier to deflect or twist the extension than to turn the lug nut.

Now if this was a steady force the extension would store this twist like a spring and and apply it to the lug or shear the exteension. However since it is an on-off-on-off force the extension twists when the force is taken away (the off cycle of the impact) the extension can untwist back into the impact. You develop a mechanical wave harmonic along the extension and the base force level is never exceeded.

this is the principal that torque bars work on in shops. I remember the shop I worked at in college going to torque bars and the rep coming in and doing a training session on them. They used a reverse torque wrench to demonstrate that the torque value was not exceeded. They stepped up to a 3/4 impact at 150 psi and it never eclipsed 85ft lbs. They took the same extension and socket and put a breaker bar on it and ran it up to 125 ft lbs fairly easily. In a final neat and destructive test they upped the psi to 300 on the 3/4 impact we all were moved away the guy was full armor suited and the torque bar exploded...using the same reverse torque wrench they again tested and ill be damned 88ft lb...That was when I began believing in the damn things.

 

[jeepinmatt]

this all makes perfect sense and in a vacuum is accurate.
For a steady applied force it's even practically accurate.
However when using an impact the impact does not apply constant force it is a on-off-on-off force.
As a result at rest the lugnut is still, the socket is still, the extension is still, and the driver is still.
The moment a force is applied a finite amount of torque is introduced. That torque is transmitted from the impact to the extension to the socket to the lugnut. The law of inertia says the torque will be passed to the least resistive object (I.E. the loose lugnut) Once that lugnut reaches a certain tightness it becomes easier to deflect or twist the extension than to turn the lug nut.
Now if this was a steady force the extension would store this twist like a spring and and apply it to the lug or shear the exteension. However since it is an on-off-on-off force the extension twists when the force is taken away (the off cycle of the impact) the extension can untwist back into the impact. You develop a mechanical wave harmonic along the extension and the base force level is never exceeded.
this is the principal that torque bars work on in shops. I remember the shop I worked at in college going to torque bars and the rep coming in and doing a training session on them. They used a reverse torque wrench to demonstrate that the torque value was not exceeded. They stepped up to a 3/4 impact at 150 psi and it never eclipsed 85ft lbs. They took the same extension and socket and put a breaker bar on it and ran it up to 125 ft lbs fairly easily. In a final neat and destructive test they upped the psi to 300 on the 3/4 impact we all were moved away the guy was full armor suited and the torque bar exploded...using the same reverse torque wrench they again tested and ill be damned 88ft lb...That was when I began believing in the damn things.

Just to clarify everything here, I was talking about using a torque wrench with or without an extension. An impact gun gets into dynamic forces, which changes everything and makes the math a lot more complicated.