Uwharre Post Season Trail Work

DRaider90

Uwharrie Off-Road Volunteering
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Location
Weddington, NC
We have been making some good progress with efforts to keep the trails open. Including the trail clean up day that went very well, and the trail hike with the FS that will be taking place early next year.

A evident problem that is coming up is trail erosion from the increased use of the Uwharrie trails in the last couple years. And because of this people are making bypasses, and the atvs are creating spider trails etc. I am not sure what the Forest Service's stance is on volunteers working on the trails while they are closed, but it seems like it is something that needs to be done.

I know there are somethings in the works, like a re-route of Dutch John due because it is near so many streams etc. And this will probably effect issues like the hill climb etc. Keep in mind we are talking here about fixing ruts and other obstacles that are created from erosion and could cause problems/are causing problems. We aren't talking about paving the rock ledges, or anything like that.

There are groups that have adopted the trails, but not all the groups have access to skid loaders, bulldozers, etc that would be need to do most of the work. And while in the past their maintenance has been more than enough, the increased use in the past few years has created more work than what can be covered. My family history is in construction so I have no issues going up to Uwharrie for a day or a weekend and doing trail re-construction.

Some areas I have noticed personally:

Ruts on the bottom of Rocky Mount Loop before Kodak/Double Ledge: These ruts have sprung up over the course of this past year. People are creating their own bypasses which isn't good. Either the ruts would need to be filled and tamped (to prevent them from coming back), or the bypasses would need to be turned into more official ones. But some of the ruts are draining into water areas it seems, so I am guessing filling them in would be the best option.

Hill Climb and Rut on Saw Mill: Both of these are leading to non-regulated bypasses. The rut has been filled in/fixed in the past but there it is becoming an interesting obstacle. A more appropriate bypass would probably work better than filling it in over and over again.

Mini Rock Bowl on Falls Dam: Over time the bypass for this little obstacle has been getting rutted out more and more till the point the bypass is harder than the obstacle. The bypass is now puddling over and has 2 ruts draining off the side of the trail. Not to mention the ruts are dangerously directing trucks down the side of the hill off-the trail. The bypass needs to be filled and and re-worked.

Rock Ledge on Falls Dam: This is the mini rock ledge that has the 2 paths, the harder route on the left, and the old bypass on the right. But now a 3rd bypass is being made on the far left by people that can't use the old official bypass. Maybe it is just me but a 3rd line is not really needed considering there is all ready a bypass. The current bypass needs to be re-worked at the top so it can be used again.

Daniel, hill climb before the 1st ledge: People are making a secondary bypass to avoid the left hand rut carved into the mini hill climb. This hill climb is all ready paved every year, and it would be a good idea to go with this again. But obviously something has to be done about the bypass in the making.

Daniel, dead tree after the Z turn: After the 2nd ledge (the big ledge) there is the Z-Turn (or 5 point turn, what ever you want to call it) and then a hill climb. There is a dead tree that has been beaten up over the years from the rut that has been forming there. I agree with Janet that this is a dangerous situation, if the tree were to give way there is nothing stopping someone from rolling down the side. The rut needs to be filled in at the very least.

Keep in mind spider trails and self-created bypasses are some of the biggest problems trail systems face. The FS takes care of some of the above usually, and the clubs do their part also. But with the increased trail use we need to step up and help out. If we had to I would be more than willing to pitch in for equipment rentals and other stuff. Last time I checked for a day, a skid loader (Bobcat/Newholland/etc) is $175. If someone had heavy equipment that would be willing to help, that would be great too. Any other thoughts/ideas on this?
 
The Forest Service will be addressing some of this during the winter closure.

The big problem the FS has is that they do not have the equipment nor manpower to do most of the type of work you mention. They rely on contract work for the large projects which are mainly funded with RTP monies. Now that Tellico is temporarily closed there should be more RTP funding to go around :)

There will be several off season workdays. The end of the year is a bad time to work with the FS as they are having to do all of their office work for next year. After the first of the year they will begin to crank up work on the trails.

There is definitely a need for equipment. A mini excavator or mini track hoe would probably be perfect. Something with an auger would be really helpful in installing some bypass barricades. Ranger Walker mentioned the last time I talked to her that the FS had materials but needed equipment and manpower to move and install it.

As SFWDA Uwharrie Liaison I have checked into using the SFWDA backhoe at Uwharrie. Problem is the equipment is old and tired and is in TN. The cost of transporting is prohibitive unless someone would do it for free. Another issue is insurance regulations on the SFWDA equipment and the fact that the FS has regulations and requirements on equipment used in the Forest.

It sounds to me that we are on the same track with our thinking about the Forest in general. There is some work that needs to be done and I am trying to work with the FS to accomplish some of it this winter. I have even thought of buying a piece of equipment myself however renting might be a better option. RTP monies can be used for rentals I know if the FS wanted to go that route but it's easier for them to contract out the whole project than rent equipment, man it with operators, etc.

I'm tired of typing and could go on and on :) I'll shoot you my cell # in a PM if you want to talk about it!
 
I was there on Sunday and it looked like work had already started on the bottom part of Daniel. Looked like a ton of brush was being cleared just off-trail. Fire prevention I assume?
 
Great news ,keep up the reports, the more sooner we know about trail days the sooner we all cam make plans to help.
I love the trails at URE and can't wait to help out. I wish I had found out about the trail clean-up last week. Sounded like you all did a super good job . :gitrdun::gitrdun::gitrdun
 
I'm an awesome bobcat operator, and i'm pretty good with the track hoes as well, so if you need someone competent to operate machinery let me know,that's all i did before i lost my job

If we have any skidsteer loaders out there you will have to fight me to run one. J/K :lol::lol:

I used to love operating the Bobcats/NewHollands/JDs we rented. The only skidsteer loaders I did not enjoy using were the Cases,Toyotas, and ScatTracks. Bobcats always being my favorites, started out on an old gas 742 back in the day.

Anyway back on topic. I have a friend in south carolina with a Truck and a tractor. Only thing we would have to do is get a trailer (and the blessings from the wife). His neighbor has a full size Cat Dozer and Trackhoe (he pulled us out of the mud with the Dozer once). His son wheels with my friend so I there may be a way to work something out. Its just a Trackhoe or Dozer WEIGHS a ton more than a bobcat, termite, or mini trackhoe.

As far as TN goes a couple of the Isuzu guys I wheel with that come to URE live out that way. I know some of them tow their rigs out to URE, but not sure if they have the towing capabilities to get a backhoe out to URE.

I know renting equipment is cheap, but I would figure if we are providing the labor for free it would be cheaper for the FS to pay the rental fees than contract it out. Maybe I am wrong though. Because you need a plate tamper, some kind of equipment, plus any other addition attachments like augers etc. Have another friend here in Charlotte that has chevy/trailer that could possibly haul equipment that would need to be rented etc.

I will have to ask around and see what we can put together. Any idea on the dates of the work days yet?
 
2 edits down hopefully this time i read it right. hey eli, my trailer can be used to haul smaller equipment. dought a dozer would do to good on it. i think the limmit is 7 or 8k on the trailer itself and as far as jays burb thats up to him of course. details of this can be talked over phone ect...
 
2 edits down hopefully this time i read it right. hey eli, my trailer can be used to haul smaller equipment. dought a dozer would do to good on it. i think the limmit is 7 or 8k on the trailer itself and as far as jays burb thats up to him of course. details of this can be talked over phone ect...

Yeah I will talk to Jay about the burb and all the fun stuff when the time gets closer (who knows he may have moved by then). I figured the work dates wouldn't be till the new year, but just was wondering if it was Jan, or Feb, etc.:beer:
 
DRaider90 said:
There are groups that have adopted the trails, but not all the groups have access to skid loaders, bulldozers, etc that would be need to do most of the work. And while in the past their maintenance has been more than enough, the increased use in the past few years has created more work than what can be covered. My family history is in construction so I have no issues going up to Uwharrie for a day or a weekend and doing trail re-construction.
A lot of workdays end up being 8-10 guys/gals from 1-2 maybe 3 clubs working on just a few sections of trail at a time. You know, schedule conflicts and all.....(I have been just as guilty as anyone, but not anymore)
Wonder what could happen if maybe 20-30 people show from all of the sponsor clubs at one workday? Or what could happen if maybe hundreds of people who use the trails regularly showed up en masse at a workday?
Heavy equipment is nice, but you have to remember a few things:
  • Heavy equipment is very hard on the trails (must be driven in on trails)
  • difficult to transport to trailheads
  • expensive to haul & operate
  • very expensive to repair (especially in remote areas)
  • hard to manuever on narrow sections of trail
That being said, a few hundred (or thousand) folks with shovels can move mountains. Remember that many of this Country's early railroads were built mostly by hand through all kinds of rough terrain. A OHV trail should be child's play by comparison.
The FS tracks volunteer hours for a reason. If more people would actually show up at workdays, the FS could/would provide more equipment & resources. This is demand driven, few people = few resources, many people = many resources.
So instead of doing this :popcorn: get out and do this
ai204.photobucket.com_albums_bb129_78cherokee_digahole.gif
 
A lot of workdays end up being 8-10 guys/gals from 1-2 maybe 3 clubs working on just a few sections of trail at a time. You know, schedule conflicts and all.....(I have been just as guilty as anyone, but not anymore)
Wonder what could happen if maybe 20-30 people show from all of the sponsor clubs at one workday? Or what could happen if maybe hundreds of people who use the trails regularly showed up en masse at a workday?
Heavy equipment is nice, but you have to remember a few things:
  • Heavy equipment is very hard on the trails (must be driven in on trails)
  • difficult to transport to trailheads
  • expensive to haul & operate
  • very expensive to repair (especially in remote areas)
  • hard to manuever on narrow sections of trail
That being said, a few hundred (or thousand) folks with shovels can move mountains. Remember that many of this Country's early railroads were built mostly by hand through all kinds of rough terrain. A OHV trail should be child's play by comparison.
The FS tracks volunteer hours for a reason. If more people would actually show up at workdays, the FS could/would provide more equipment & resources. This is demand driven, few people = few resources, many people = many resources.
So instead of doing this :popcorn: get out and do this
ai204.photobucket.com_albums_bb129_78cherokee_digahole.gif
I'd be more than happy to show up at one, I've ridden there for two years now and should definitely have already started giving back for the opportunity to wheel there.
My only problem would be cost, It's not exactly cheap to head out there and work, and that I don't know how much is actually going to get done. I just don't want to waste my time heading out there if it's just going to be a bunch of guys sitting around talking just to make it look like they're getting things done.
Is there any way you guys can put up a plan of attack and goals for the work days that you schedule? I know that would motivate me more, to have a set goal of accomplishments on the trails etc.
 
Subscribing to this thread. I have a trailer that I've hauled a Bobcat on and it did just fine. I'd be willing to rent one (or excavator) for a day and haul it up if someone with some skill can operate it. As much fun as they are I manage to damn near flip the thing on level ground. It'd be down right scary to watch me try at URE. I won't be able to do much after February as I'm having a pretty significant surgery. However, I'm willing to work a shovel up until the surgery.
 
I'd be more than happy to show up at one, I've ridden there for two years now and should definitely have already started giving back for the opportunity to wheel there.
My only problem would be cost, It's not exactly cheap to head out there and work, and that I don't know how much is actually going to get done. I just don't want to waste my time heading out there if it's just going to be a bunch of guys sitting around talking just to make it look like they're getting things done.
Is there any way you guys can put up a plan of attack and goals for the work days that you schedule? I know that would motivate me more, to have a set goal of accomplishments on the trails etc.
The workdays usually have an agenda, a certain project goal, and some participation by FS personnel. Check the pics herefrom a typical workday:
3/28/09 Workday
7 club members, a guest, and a Ranger spent half a day putting up five sections of guard rail in very rocky soil using a light weight auger (with bad carb) and hand tools. The FS dozer was used to drag the guardrail up the trail and he also relieved two large water holes before leaving. We spent the rest of the day winching log barriers into place and after it started raining, relieved standing waterholes to prevent rutting.

Plus our club has non-official workdays also where we will just police our adopted trail "Dickey Bell" for trash, of which there is always plenty.

If you are not a member of a sponsor club, I am sure that most will welcome extra help on workdays.
 
Heavy equipment wise a Skidsteer Loader (Bobcat/Newholland etc) or Termite (mini backhoe) would probably be the easiest and most efficient to get out there. Mini excavator would be next on the list, but a Termite with the front bucket and rear hoe/bucket would be better. A bulldozer would also be great for filling in ruts/mud pits/paving stuff, but it would be harder get one towed up there unless the FS still has one. I know the FS bulldozer has been driven up the Dutch John hill climb, so it can fit most places. Beyond that a plate tamp is vital. Ruts on Rocky Mnt Loop are a perfect example, they bulldozed them in at one point but didn't tamp/compact the dirt. So normal wear from vehicles and rain tore them right back up.

I am going to be giving JC a call this weekend and hopefully we can get the ball rolling on this. Talk to FS about what plans they have for different work days, so we can get the specifics out to motivate/get people involved. I think a work weekend would be a great idea. Have 2 main work days and have a nice big dinner back at Arrowhead for everyone that worked.

Just think of how many weekends/days we spend out on the trails. To have a good showing for even one work weekend would be great.
 
Does anyone think maybe Sunbelt,United, or RSC might be willing to donate one or more machines for the work? I could check with the Sunbelt near work where we rent equipment ocassionally. Could also check with a friend that has some heavy equipment.
 
Does anyone think maybe Sunbelt,United, or RSC might be willing to donate one or more machines for the work? I could check with the Sunbelt near work where we rent equipment ocassionally. Could also check with a friend that has some heavy equipment.

I was wondering that myself, but my family has been out of the construction business for 9 years and our contacts with rental groups are no more. We used to rent from Phoenix Equipment on 74, and Tarheel Rentals right near 74. I know Tarheel has been bought out/changed, not sure about Phoenix. We rented from a couple other places, but didn't have the rapport we had with Phoenix and Tarheel.

I may stop by Phoenix and see what they say, at least get some current rental rates if nothing else. But its worth a shot if anyone on here has any contacts in the rental business.
 
Well I'll stick my .02 in...
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The rangers were always more than helpful with the work at hand but really didn't seem to be interested in organizing 30 people to get them all focused at doing stuff. Thus the above mentioned people standing around.. Jake seemed to have a knack at that.
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I think the biggest issue is communications. People generally seen to not know what's going on.
From the second the rangers start talking and people don't shut the fuck up it goes down hill from there.
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I fully understand that there are limits on the equipment and tools available. And not everyone can run the post hole digger at the same time. But I've seen many times where one group/club wants to do the cool or fun stuff and they exclude other groups or even individuals who happen to show up. Stuff as simple as hauling materials up to the work area turns into a who's who with some people offended there offers to help were overlooked. People leave ticked off and less interested in going again..
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I propose:
* That what ever work or project is to be done, be made clear ahead of time.
* Announce if tools are equipment are welcome to be brought.
* Plan out several tasks and groups and make them known and avaliable for ALL to join. NOT based on a specific club etc.. Based on work skills, man power, tool availability etc. Specifically include individuals that might show up.
* Plan a full days work for those who are willing. (I'd rather WORK vs riding the 2nd half of the day.)
* Coordinate a lunch crew to bring/make a simple sandwich type meal. This would be an excellent task and might encourage people who have stopped coming for various reasons to come again who may not be up for a manual labor other tasks require.
* Get organized on our end. Scott Fields used to be there and cordinated alot of what went on. We need several people who can perform that task. Then at the work events, designate a single person be the goto guy for that day. (This person will probably NOT do much 'work' other than keep everyone else moving and working. Responding to requests from the work crews etc.. They will get people involved and play traffic cop for people as they come and go. Tell late comers where to head etc..
- I've seen people NOT doing anything at work days because others were hogging the tools.
- I've asked those who WERE doing something what the plan was only to receive a 'look' but no response.
- I've seen ATV'ers stop and ask what's going on, only to hear people NOT tell them a damn thing about what we were doing and to ASK them if they would like to help.
(After talking to them later they assumed it was a club type function).
* Every club that is present appoint someone to be the point of contact to quickly pass info with in their group/club.
* Everyone ASK for help when needed.
* Everyone OFFER to help if able.
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.
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While this is all basic BS. I think it would be needed. If this is planned and promoted and 100 people show up we don't need 98 standing around wondering what to do..
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Hell I can bring my laptop, and printer (+generator ) to print maps, work locations etc..
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If we were to ask people what 'stuff' they could/would do on a work day. What things would you ask?
Can you dig with a shovel?
Can you use a pick ax?
Can you run a post hole digger or assist?
can you lead other in performing task XYZ. (aka you know how to do the task)
Possibly have some people preassigned to work before hand..
I'd like to see things progress to allow us to work stuff bigger projects.
just thinking outloud...
 
You make a lot of good points. The big one being without organization you can have 100 people and only 2 of them doing anything. Sort of the 4 guys standing around watching the one guy dig a hole ideal but on a bigger more crazy scale.

I like the lunch meal idea, it expands on the dinner idea I have been kicking around. Biggest hurdle there is getting the large amounts of food together. From there it usually not too tough to get people to cook it.

I have my own ideas of what I would like to see done, and I am sure the FS has their own ideas. It looks like step 1 would be to get with them and lay out some work plans. Pending what trail we focused on also get in contact with the group that has adopted it. I will try to organize as much as I can on my end, but if this is going to turn into a nice sized turn out it will take more than one person doing the organizing (some getting equipment together, someone working with the FS, someone working on food, etc).

I still need to make some phone calls that I will be making tomorrow and hopefully we can get the ball rolling. If anyone wants my cell to seriously start organizing and making this a reality I will PM it to you.
 
I'm young, have a good back and work ethic. If yall can use me let me know. I've never been there but I'd like to start going on a monthly basis once I have something worthy enough.

PS. I also make a killer sandwich.
 
It's gonna be awhile until anything happens at Uwharrie regarding off season work/maint. Most ALL of the FS personnel are gone for the holidays until after the 5th.
 
I talked with Janet today and she is going to let Deborah know there is a group wanting to help with the trail work. She also let me know that if we did a work weekend type deal we would have a campsite(s) if need be.

Right now since the FS won't be doing a lot due to the holidays until next week (well not this up coming week but the week after) we can focus on organizing what we can on our end. So here is a list of stuff that I can think of (in no particular order):

- Find out who all is seriously interested in attending a trail work day/weekend. Need to get a general number of people to expect.

-Work out how much equipment we will be able to bring and who will be bringing what. All kinds of equipment from hand tools, to plate tamps, to skidsteer loaders, to bulldozers will be needed/used.

-Need to organize a lunch and possibly a dinner. I wonder if we could talk to the group at the Outpost and a couple other local spots about getting food together. Gimmieboost can make a mean sandwich so that is a start. :)

-A proposed repair list to present to the FS. The FS has their own plans and everything will need to be cleared through them. BUT! We can't expect them to cover all the bases, we need to get a list of proposed trail fixes that they may have not thought of/etc. So at the very least we can bring it to them and see what they say.

Feel free to add to this list if anyone else can think of anything. I know during the trail clean up thread we talked about other trail improvement ideas like trash cans etc. So keep the ideas coming for trail repairs/improvements.
 
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