Uwharrie Kodak Update

Ron, I appreciate the work you did and tried to do on Tellico. And I'm sure you are right on all accounts but there are also many other laws, edicts, philosophies we can cite for our cause. It is done every day and if nothing else we can make them have to muddle through their own red tape to see it through. And I agree, the FS personnel are just as you said and I have called many friends and I know all that it takes for them to abandon us is a word from above.
But what will it hurt to copy what I wrote, personalize it with a couple sentences and send in an email? I'm sure that the Sierra club and the like sends out cattle calls like this and their minions copy, paste, and send at the drop of a hat.
It's the least we can do.
 
Email sent.
 
Ron, I appreciate the work you did and tried to do on Tellico. And I'm sure you are right on all accounts but there are also many other laws, edicts, philosophies we can cite for our cause. It is done every day and if nothing else we can make them have to muddle through their own red tape to see it through. And I agree, the FS personnel are just as you said and I have called many friends and I know all that it takes for them to abandon us is a word from above.
But what will it hurt to copy what I wrote, personalize it with a couple sentences and send in an email? I'm sure that the Sierra club and the like sends out cattle calls like this and their minions copy, paste, and send at the drop of a hat.
It's the least we can do.

If it makes you happy it cant be that bad.
lol

But seriously. Have at it. I think you missed my point though. SUre there are other laws, but MUSYA is literally the law that says "this is what, how and why the united states forest service shall do and they shall not deviate"
 
I wish I had the time to write a long freaking thesis here.
But we need to take a step back and look at the genesis of the problem.
I am going to simply type a few random stream of conscious thought sand try to pull them together at the end.


The USFS is part of the Department of Agriculture.
THE USFS primary mission is defined, by law, as:
"To sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the Nation's forests and grasslands to meet the needs of present and future generations."

The USFS was initially developed to ensure a steady supply of timber for our wood product needs in the face of deforestation. In fact at one point it was posited that even human existence in the US forest was unheathy and should be banned.

That brings us to MUSYA - 1960 most commonly referred to as the "Multi Use Doctrine" but technically know as the Multiple Use Sustainable Yield Act.
This act requires the Secretary of Agriculture to " develop and administer the renewable resources of timber, range, water, recreation and wildlife on the national forests for multiple use and sustained yield of the products and services"
It goes on to define Multiple use - the "management of all the various renewable surface resources of the national forests so that they are utilized in the combination that will best meet the needs of the American people and Sustained yield - "the achievement and maintenance in perpetuity of a high-level annual or regular periodic output of the various renewable resources of the national forests without impairment of the productivity of the land.

What is important and unique about MUSYA is that each of the 5 pillars must be valued equally without bias. Further it says if any one use damages 2 others then the greater good is considered. This sint a decision a local ranger gets to make. This is federal law, violate this and go to federal prison shit. Your average Forester making $35k/yr aint sticking their neck out and risking fed time no matter how they feel.

(For anyone who cares to go to masters class we can discuss "Omnibus Parks and Public Land -1996" and how it impacts all this)

That said, just understand the struggle you are up against.
It has been argued and won that motorized vehicle travel is an approved and just form of recreation. That point is still contentious however and there is a large movement that says motorized vehicle travel is NOT a protected form of recreation. Make sure any letters you write address this - that motorized vehicle recreation is a viable and protected use of the forest.
So once they accept that motorized vehicle use is approved recreation, there is no protection for special or high challenge areas. I encourage you to go read MUSYA - it aint there. Again even being able to traverse is controversial, much less challenge areas.
So next you have to make sure that recreation doesnt impact more than 1 of timber, range, water or wildlife. If it does impact 2 of these then the greater good is to restrict recreation in promotion of these activities. AGAIN THIS ISNT MY OPINION THIS IS THE FEDERALLY DEFINED LETTER OF THE LAW. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS MY BELIEF. ....
Now lets take this line by line:
Does vehicle traffic prevent vegitative growth? If yes then it is impacting timber production.
Range isnt applicable in URE we can discount that one.
Water - this is why its so cruical to prevent water impacts. It doesnt say it has to prevent significant impact, but it shouldnt have ANY impact. This is why Tellico lost and it was the hill I died on trying to fight SFWDA and BRC lawyers. They spent thousands trying to quantify and minimize the damage and point out that the reports were exaggerated. The law doesnt define how much it must impact it, if it impact it AT ALL it is a negative.
Wildlife - AHhh the microscopic 10,000 ton elephant in the room. Thanks to ESA1973 (16 USC ch 35 1531...thank you Dr Wood all these years later I still remember that Damned location) Wildlife is now defined as well and it doesnt have to be significant, financially valuable, or ecologically important...its any living member of the flora or fauna....so does your recreation impact a living organism? If you have ever ran over an ant, or killed a mosquito then the answer is yes.

Why do closed trails never open? Because Green Peace, The Sierra Club, Wilderness Society, NWF, DOW et al have lawyers on board and all they have to prove is that any 2 of the above have happened and it is legal reason not to re open.


What does all my rambling mean?

This is a hopeless losing battle. One that cant be won. I personally wont waste a breathe of oxygen fighting it, because the law is written and we violate it every day. Want meaningful impact? Get the law changed. I mean I think thats nearly as impossible but its the only hope.
All the red herring about indian artifact and significant historical cultural site and trout and 3 toed tree sloths and warblers etc....all those are the causes needed for an emergency action to create action without an EA (environmental assessment) and EAP (Environmental action plan) ...but they are not necessary for maintaining closure. The MUSYA is the closure king. To further explain the last point....the ONLY reason we still have any legalized vehicle recreation is because of the very bureaucracy of the federal government. The law basically states that current acceptable actions are considered ok and allowed unless some paperwork is done. and EEA and an EAP are two of the more significant pieces of this paperwork. And in typical government fashion these forms are overly long, very complicated and having a qualified firm complete them is very expensive. $4-5k for someone to fill out and stamp the 2 forms. But federal programs are understaffed. Changing things requires, literally, an act of congress. I am not aware of a single case where motorized recreation has won. But there are only so many battles fought.

Enjoy what you have, but PLEASE support private parks. It is the ONLY future/

Wouldn't boating have an impact on water and wildlife by their very definition? Why don't the boating areas get closed then?
 
Ron, I appreciate the work you did and tried to do on Tellico. And I'm sure you are right on all accounts but there are also many other laws, edicts, philosophies we can cite for our cause. It is done every day and if nothing else we can make them have to muddle through their own red tape to see it through. And I agree, the FS personnel are just as you said and I have called many friends and I know all that it takes for them to abandon us is a word from above.
But what will it hurt to copy what I wrote, personalize it with a couple sentences and send in an email? I'm sure that the Sierra club and the like sends out cattle calls like this and their minions copy, paste, and send at the drop of a hat.
It's the least we can do.
I sent one, citing that the forest should include a diversity of activities hiking, horseing, boating, camping AND OHV use. I also noted that closures cause people not to come which have an impact on the local economy.
 
Wouldn't boating have an impact on water and wildlife by their very definition? Why don't the boating areas get closed then?
I would say because many "lawmakers" and their families enjoy boating and their rights shouldn't be infringed upon! WE (OHVers) are a fringe group that doesn't matter to them or their concerns.
 
I was up there helping pull this up last year I think it was. Kind of bitter sweet since I was there helping put it in many years ago....... It comes up a lot easier then you think..... I have somewhat given up on Kodak and the Forest.

Same here. I was there putting up the guardrail on Kodak that winter and it never opened in the Spring. I also helped take it back down a couple years ago so we could re-use it on Dickey bell and Daniel. Kinda crazy how nature has taken over and you can hardly see any evidence that it used to be an OHV obstacle.
 
Wouldn't boating have an impact on water and wildlife by their very definition? Why don't the boating areas get closed then?

Interesting example you cited.
I just did a quick google and couldnt find it.
But in the 1980s there was a massive research study done that found that boating had zero ecological impact on a body of water.
That study cost like $25MM in 80s dollars and was funded almost exclusively by marine manufactures (boats and engines).

BTW you can also look into how many lakes are technically on USFS property. Its not as many as youd think, but some significant ones are in there.

I say its an interesting example because there was legislation introduced 2 years ago by the Sierra club to ban the use of outboard engines on all domestic bodies of water.
 
Wouldn't boating have an impact on water and wildlife by their very definition? Why don't the boating areas get closed then?


Most lakes and reservoirs are created with some intent to provide recreation to residents. It’s typically part of the approval for building dams and lakes in addition to their major primary purpose (power, reservoir, etc). Typically local and state/federal authorities have stipulations to keep, maintain, improve, and increase public water access and use to maintain ACOE permits that allow the building of dams and blocking waters of the US.

Boating activities typically fall under different jurisdiction and likely won’t ever get restricted.
 
If you want big offroad opportunities living in nc, you either need to be willing to travel or move. NC is over crowded and not enough public land to really be viable. Head west and you will quickly find out how packed like rats we are.

I am amazed that Daniel is still open , the trail is beat out 5 lanes wide up the front climb. Nc is so starved for ohv access that URE gets way more traffic than it can handle. Dont get me wrong, I dont want a single inch of trail to close, but imho , it want exist another 5 yrs.
 
If it makes you happy it cant be that bad.
lol

But seriously. Have at it. I think you missed my point though. SUre there are other laws, but MUSYA is literally the law that says "this is what, how and why the united states forest service shall do and they shall not deviate"

Maybe a concert to raise awareness for the cause is in order?
Sheryl-Crow-Feet-824846.jpg
 
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You guys need to make sure the emails you are sending have all the information that is required. In the Legal Notice that was posted in the paper it says that all comments and objections must conform to 36 CFR 218.2 and 36 CFR 218.24(b)(6). I suggest you take five minutes and read it over. It's not bad. It tells you what is required of the Legal Notice but it also tells you in the definitions other details. Dropping an email with your name, IMO, doesn't count and this may be why they only received two letters...

edit: also, if you plan to object the proposal then you need to sign it. It says you can also provide proof of identity upon request but I wouldn't chance it.

also, the official email to comment is this: comments-southern-north-carolina-uwharrie@fs.fed.us

double edit: https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/104955_FSPLT3_4634218.pdf

wow. you guys should read some of this bullshit. I'm going to try and put something together for your entertainment. There are so many counter arguments to be made it's ridiculous. My favorite is them telling me I'll be safer now because they shut down a more challenging section :lol::lol:
 
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So everyone who has commented or liked since my post has sent an email to Terry Right? Post up! Show it! Y'all are my friends. Do it! It's quicker than going to get a beer. Do it! :flipoff2::flipoff2::flipoff2:
I sent my email to her and the same email to the president and vp and every other contact on the sfwda and blue ribbon coalition websites.
 
Saw this just now. I find this infuriating. I personally know the husband and wife who run this page, many of you do too. But this is very disappointing, as I think the whole thing is ridiculous that such a tiny area was affected when compared to 50k+ acres of land. We hurt less than 1 acre, and we offered to do WHATEVER they deemed necessary to keep it open.

9D8F73CB-9B79-41BF-8923-C84A8EBE70BA.png
 
Saw this just now. I find this infuriating. I personally know the husband and wife who run this page, many of you do too. But this is very disappointing, as I think the whole thing is ridiculous that such a tiny area was affected when compared to 50k+ acres of land. We hurt less than 1 acre, and we offered to do WHATEVER they deemed necessary to keep it open.

View attachment 290148
:kaioken:
 
Saw this just now. I find this infuriating. I personally know the husband and wife who run this page, many of you do too. But this is very disappointing, as I think the whole thing is ridiculous that such a tiny area was affected when compared to 50k+ acres of land. We hurt less than 1 acre, and we offered to do WHATEVER they deemed necessary to keep it open.

View attachment 290148
@jeepinmatt What is your advise?
 
I'm going to drop some of my letter in here for you guys to read. You can rob portions as you see fit or maybe get ideas from it. This is all rough draft / first stab stuff so hopefully I can polish it before I send it off.


My name is McCracken and I am an avid and active outdoor enthusiast. I am writing you to express my concerns and outrage over your proposed trail closure of the Rocky Mountain Loop in the Uwharrie National Forest OHV trail system. As someone who has volunteered their time in assisting the US Forest Service maintain trail systems over the years and continues to be willing to help, this action can only be taken as an insult with a blatant disregard to all other volunteers’ and groups’ time and effort involved in helping you maintain these trails.

I have been enjoying the outdoors since I was a child. My interests have changed over the years but they have always revolved around being outside and enjoying nature. As a parent of two, I want to be able to pass this love onto them so they may also enjoy what the world outside of cities can provide. Off-roading is one of my main avenues to accomplish this.

I have read and taken the time to digest what was written in your March 2019 Environmental Assessment (EA) submitted for public review. In short, I do not feel there is sufficient data or justification for the removal of this trail from the system and object to your preferred proposed action.
 
I would like to begin by pointing out that on your website (National Forests in North Carolina - Badin Lake OHV Trail Complex) that you state that the “Uwharrie National Forest provides the only public off-highway (OHV) or motorized system in the Piedmont Region of North Carolina…”. Therefore, many individuals in the central part of the state choose to go to Uwharrie. You state that the Badin Lake Recreation Area is the primary area people visit. I would say because of the proximity to the user’s home but more importantly for the experience it provides them. This is why I continue to visit and why Uwharrie was the very first OHV I ever went to. The 2012 Forest Use Plan that you speak to in your EA states that on page 16 that intended OHV use will be “…only on a designated system…that is well-designed and maintained to provide varied use experiences (easy to more difficult)...” Like many other enthusiasts, I continue to work on my Jeep to make it more capable. Challenging trails make for enjoyable experiences. Obstacles that were once too much now become possibilities. Removing the trail goes against the Forest Plan and diminishes user desire to return resulting in losses in revenue from fewer trips taken to a now smaller OHV.
 
In your attempts to be inclusive, you have stated that this trail will also be closed to bicycles, equestrian recreation and dispersed camping. While I appreciated your attempt to not appear to single out the off-road community, I think it is well-known that the Rocky Mountain Loop trail is primarily for full-size OHV traffic and affects this group the most. These are also the same individuals that volunteered their time to install guardrails at your recommendation on this trail. Now it appears you plan to take the rails and fencing out. This will strain already fragile bonds between the off-road community and the Forest Service. This action insults and discourages future volunteer involvement by showing that efforts put forth are thought of no more than plastic caution tape that can be torn down and thrown away. This action from the Forest Service is not encouraged or warranted. Since the mid-80’s, the off-road community has continued to be a part of the life of Uwharrie. I believe this needs to be taken into consideration in regards to the future of the forest.
 
I'll admit I'm reaching with the soil comment but I figured why not. They probably won't read it anyway.


Disregarding all other previous points made, there is no significant impact to waterways or surrounding wildlife. The EA specifically addresses each of these and notes that there are no negative impacts. It says, “Currently, soil eroded from this trail does not reach Dutch John Creek” on page 9 and prior to that states this trail, “…does not affect any creek crossings.” I will admit that I am confused by the findings. The trail has been in use for a number of years yet there are no negative impacts to birds, bats, snakes, aquatic species or surrounding endangered flora. I cannot see wasting money on a non-existent problem. Page 3 of EA says the plan is to recover this segment but again with no negative impact what is the purpose? I will not be so bold as to say that off-roading has no impact but I will say that much of this could have been avoided with proper maintenance. I do however have a concern in regards to your plan of bringing in offsite dirt / fill. With the soil not being native to the area I believe there is a potential for bringing in invasive species and introducing them into the forest. I would strongly discourage this action.
 
Last one. Working on my closer.


The Forest Plan states that guidelines for mitigating areas where Cultural Resources are noted starts with, “Road or trail maintenance to eliminate disturbance or erosion of site” but should be the least restrictive effective and affordable. Because of the perceived issue on the trail in regards to erosion the off-road community is now being punished. There is conflicting information in your report. You have made a point to say that erosion is an issue and thus the impetus for closure. When you submitted the findings to the NC DENR they agreed and said that there may need to be an erosion and sedimentation plan. However, “The Uwharrie NF Hydrologist determined that these regulatory requirements do not apply to this project since there are no stream crossings on this section of trail and ground disturbance would be less than one acre in size.” No other state agencies appear to have commented. This again displays that there is no significant impact present and therefore no need for closure.
 
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