Well issues help!

skyhighZJ

skyhighZJ

Thanks for your taxes
Joined
May 31, 2012
Location
Aberdeen, NC.
We have a well here in Aberdeen that’s been fine since we moved in 2 years ago. This morning the breaker tripped. Popped it back and it has tripped 2 more times throughout the day. We use this well to feed the house and also off the back of the house the hose goes out and it’s what we use to water our animals. Never had it trip like this before so I am asking for ideas. It has a brand new pressure switch (40/60) the pressure tank and all fittings are new last fall after the pressure tank failed. Tonight I went out after it tripped the breaker again and felt the wires to see if something was hot and nothing but I could here air hissing. I moved the wires around that go down into the well casing and it blew out air (dust) past the little fitting the wires go into. Not sure if that’s related but never heard it before. PM/ let me know here or call/ text (304) 777-6888. Really need to know what I’m looking at before I call someone and they try to sell me a new well cause I honestly don’t know better.
Also it’s a 110v feed off of a 15amp breaker that also was replaced around Christmas cause I had a weak breaker in the box so I swapped out all the single poles for new ones as long as I had the house “shut off”
 
@skyhighZJ

is the start capacitor within the pump iteself, or in the control box?

will the pump run and make pressure before the breaker trips, or not start at all?

can you eyeball the contacts in the start switch and see if they are burned or pitted?

how deep is the well?
 
The pump will run, build pressure, and the shutoff like it should and cycle fine for X amount of time then just trips the breaker at random. The contacts on the pressure switch are fine as it was just replaced less than 3 months ago due to a contact sticking and not tripping the well to the run position. Not sure how deep the well is. Also not sure about the capacitor. I’ll get pics in the morning when it’s not dark and pouring rain.
 
skyhighZJ said:
The pump will run, build pressure, and the shutoff like it should and cycle fine for X amount of time then just trips the breaker at random. The contacts on the pressure switch are fine as it was just replaced less than 3 months ago due to a contact sticking and not tripping the well to the run position. Not sure how deep the well is. Also not sure about the capacitor. I’ll get pics in the morning when it’s not dark and pouring rain.
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If it starts and runs most of the time, I'd think one of 3 things to begin. In my very limited experience, submersible pumps are either good or bad, not much in-between.

Bad breaker? Even though it's relatively new...I had one fail here at the new house after just a few weeks. If you don't have a spare, swap it with another in the panel. If your well house has an outlet off that 15 amp circuit, or you are comfortable enough splicing in a wire, put a load on that circuit for a while...like a 1500 watt space heater. BTW, you did replace it with a "normal" breaker, not ARC-fault or GFCI?

Next thought is a short or worn wire from the well head to the pump. Vibration/movement makes it short and trip. But...you did wiggle the pump wires. That may or may not change its behavior.

Last thought is a nick or voltage leak to ground in the panel to well underground wire. Put in any fence posts lately?
 
Submerged, drilled, bored, depth differences will have different setups and sizes.

But to run several cycles then trip random makes believe the pump is getting bad. A short for something fairly static doesn't come and go. Now if the pump is kicking some because the arrestor devices are missing or broke (smaller diameter drilled well) I could see it wiggling and banging off the casing.

Me thinks if it's a nine out of ten deal the motor in rush current is over loading the circuit. Do you have a meter that will measure amps or load? Run them critters a bunch of water and try to catch a spike on start up?
 
-Replaced the breakers with standard GE breakers not gfci or otherwise.
- the outlet in the pump house is not wired. Was going to this winter and never finished it up.
-I have a meter but it’s a cheap-o-Reilly unit. Not sure it does the job or I’d know how to make it work. (I’m not a good electrician by any means!)
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Pics of the well (pump house)
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Definitely a drilled well. Meter doesn't have a "amps" function. Most used to be a sepearate clamp on devise, the good ones. Some are fork type. You'd also be trying to catch a moment in time when trips.
Nerdy video on pumps:
Probably won't help much.
 
Only part of his instal I didn't like was the lack of well shock absorber on the line.
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And the related wire guides. Prevents chafing.
 
Well???




^^^see what I did there? ;D
 
So today we have been running the hoses less (less load on the well) and haven’t had an issue so I am assuming it’s load related? Could trying to draw too much water through a filter that’s clogged partially be overheating the pump causing the circuit to trip?
 
skyhighZJ said:
So today we have been running the hoses less (less load on the well) and haven’t had an issue so I am assuming it’s load related? Could trying to draw too much water through a filter that’s clogged partially be overheating the pump causing the circuit to trip?
Click to expand...
do you have a filtration system, we had an elaborate back flush system for heavy iron deposits. the deposits where so bad it stained everything and clogged eventually....but (ours) never tripped. If its an old well it could be tired. If its set to deep sediment can be an issue. But i personally believe sediment would be consistent.
Been chunking tannerite have we!!! ....LOL!
 
Our water is super clean and clear being in the sand hills. No filtration system on the house. And no tannerite unfortunately. Went all day today with no trips but we didn’t run the hoses except to fill water points for the animals. Yesterday we were letting the hose run on to muddy up the pig wallows
 
If the breaker trips again feel breaker and accessible wires for heat. Circuit breakers that have tripped several times become weak and should be replace especially on motor loads
 
moldman05 said:
If the breaker trips again feel breaker and accessible wires for heat. Circuit breakers that have tripped several times become weak and should be replace especially on motor loads
Click to expand...
I felt the breaker yesterday evening when it tripped for the 4th time of the day it as warmer than the rest but not significantly and as soon as I flipped it back on I went outside and checked the wires in the pump house and they were as cool as the air temp. I can replace the breaker as I have spares. Question, is 15 amps enough? I replaced it around Christmas along with all the other single poles as I did have a weak breaker in the box but I used a 15 cause it’s what was already there and not because I know it was “correct”.
 
Unless you know what the name plate on the motor says, you really gotta go with what's in there. Any idea what gauge wires are in the ground, and from the well house down to the pump?

Better than my mom's house when it caught fire a few years ago....old cartridge fuses, the basement lighting circuit (8 fixtures) was on a 100 amp slow-blow motor starting fuse. :eek: Burned the insulation off the wire all the way from the bad fixture thru the switch and back to the panel, inside the ceiling and wall, until the wire itself finally melted. Fuse never did blow...it was happy as a clam carrying that load. Like a giant toaster.
 
Cut tell breaker off and check the lugs. They might be loose causing it to pull higher amps even though the pump itself isn't drawing high itself.
 
If you start fixing stuff that's the wrong connector wire combo at the pressure switch and will cause problems eventually.

It could have just been fatigue yesterday causing the nuisance trip. If so the breaker needs to be replaced or it will continue. Once the thermal trips enough the metal loses its "spring "
 
Ron said:
If you start fixing stuff that's the wrong connector wire combo at the pressure switch and will cause problems eventually.

It could have just been fatigue yesterday causing the nuisance trip. If so the breaker needs to be replaced or it will continue. Once the thermal trips enough the metal loses its "spring "
Click to expand...
do you mean wire type? or the strain relief on the wire? I wanna learn too.
 
I can't comment one way or the other definitively on wire type from the photo given.

But the connector on the PS is for a jacketed/sheathed cable. As those cables flex over gime with starts the connector will cut into the insulation and cause an arc/short. May take weeks may take decades but it'll happen eventually. It will also allow moisture into the PS and cause it to fail prematurely. To run those wires into it as is, a grommetted connector would be better. Something with a strain relief and a neoprene seal that tightens under compression.
 
Ron said:
If you start fixing stuff that's the wrong connector wire combo at the pressure switch and will cause problems eventually.

It could have just been fatigue yesterday causing the nuisance trip. If so the breaker needs to be replaced or it will continue. Once the thermal trips enough the metal loses its "spring "
Click to expand...

like what @Ron said. What connector wire is wrong? Learning too.

Edit: apparently you were responding as I was. I get what you’re talking about now. I can remedy that too easy.
 
So we have been being more conservative with our water usage and haven’t had any issues but as the heat ramps up so will our water usage. I’m looking to get ahead of the game and purchase some new (better) equipment.
Ideas: new pump and upgrade to a 220v pump. I think I can run the 3 wires I have and turn it into 2 legs of 110v w/ ground wire.
question is that if I put a 2 pole breaker in the house box and use the red and black for my hots, the green for ground at the box do I need an additional earth ground at the pump house or is the housing of the pressure switch adequate to transfer ground to the pump?
Also, looking at pump options they all seem to flow 12 GPM no matter .5 hp/.75 hp/ or 1.0 hp so what makes sense. Based on what I can tell we are at about a 65ft well depth in my area.
Also upgrade the size of the pressure tank so the well isn’t short cycling. right now I have a 20 gallon PT. How big is too big. Based on the size of the hole and the pump house itself I could easily upsize to a 52 gallon PT.
I have called and asked a couple of the well guys and plumbers in the area and they only want my money for them to do it. I’m pretty inclined to learn new things just haven’t ever done anything like this before so would like to do it myself. And save the money. Any help would be great. @moldman05 @Ron @WARRIORWELDING
 
skyhighZJ said:
all seem to flow 12 GPM no matter .5 hp/.75 hp/ or 1.0 hp so what makes sense
Click to expand...

All I know is that the motor size and pump size are only loosely correlated. Generally, the motor is sized for the depth of the well, the pump is sized for the required flow rate. The manufacturer probably has a chart that will show you what's required.

I'm in a similar boat, in that I wanted a specific capacity test done to see if I could reliably upsize the pump, but couldn't get anywhere with the local well people.
 
shawn said:
All I know is that the motor size and pump size are only loosely correlated. Generally, the motor is sized for the depth of the well, the pump is sized for the required flow rate. The manufacturer probably has a chart that will show you what's required.

I'm in a similar boat, in that I wanted a specific capacity test done to see if I could reliably upsize the pump, but couldn't get anywhere with the local well people.
Click to expand...

And I can’t get anywhere with the County Health Dept. to get info on the existing well cause they are all at home waiting to spend their stimulus check.
 
skyhighZJ said:
So we have been being more conservative with our water usage and haven’t had any issues but as the heat ramps up so will our water usage. I’m looking to get ahead of the game and purchase some new (better) equipment.
Ideas: new pump and upgrade to a 220v pump. I think I can run the 3 wires I have and turn it into 2 legs of 110v w/ ground wire.
question is that if I put a 2 pole breaker in the house box and use the red and black for my hots, the green for ground at the box do I need an additional earth ground at the pump house or is the housing of the pressure switch adequate to transfer ground to the pump?
Also, looking at pump options they all seem to flow 12 GPM no matter .5 hp/.75 hp/ or 1.0 hp so what makes sense. Based on what I can tell we are at about a 65ft well depth in my area.
Also upgrade the size of the pressure tank so the well isn’t short cycling. right now I have a 20 gallon PT. How big is too big. Based on the size of the hole and the pump house itself I could easily upsize to a 52 gallon PT.
I have called and asked a couple of the well guys and plumbers in the area and they only want my money for them to do it. I’m pretty inclined to learn new things just haven’t ever done anything like this before so would like to do it myself. And save the money. Any help would be great. @moldman05 @Ron @WARRIORWELDING
Click to expand...


Cant provide much help here. My well experience is in repair not deisgn. I know how to get mine working again thats about it. (joking. sort of.)

But in short when watering a bunch like filling up troughs, it isnt hard on the pump to run for a long time. It is hard for it to cut on and of repeatedly. So for a single large fill a 20 PT vs a 52PT or even a 5 PT doesnt really change the equation.
 
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